Baker Street Irregulars discussion

I have recently been intrigued by the question of SH's religion. Did he have one, at least as part of his upbringing, and if so, what was it? I discuss the question of whether he was a Roman Catholic here: http://beneathgrayski.es/?p=1486

This was a really interesting write-up, which I found quite intriguing. I've read several theories on what Holmes's religious or spiritual beliefs may be, but this was perhaps the most convincing (particularly with your last point, about his indifference to the Copernican system).

Of course, we can never really "know" for certain what, if any, religion Sherlock Holmes may have been intended to follow (or have once followed). But I enjoy arguments like this nonetheless, in large part because of key moments in the Canon that quite definitely point to the character of Sherlock Holmes as being meant to have an aspect of spirituality. One of my all-time favorite passages comes from "A Naval Treaty:"

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"Thank you. I have no doubt I can get details from Forbes. The authorities are excellent at amassing facts, though they do not always use them to advantage. What a lovely thing a rose is!"

[Holmes] walked past the couch to the open window, and held up the drooping stalk of a moss-rose, looking down at the dainty blend of crimson and green. It was a new phase of his character to me, for I had never before seen him show any keen interest in natural objects.

"There is nothing in which deduction is so necessary as in religion," said he, leaning with his back against the shutters. "It can be built up as an exact science by the reasoner. Our highest assurance of the goodness of Providence seems to me to rest in the flowers. All other things, our powers our desires, our food, are all really necessary for our existence in the first instance. But this rose is an extra. Its smell and its colour are an embellishment of life, not a condition of it. It is only goodness which gives extras, and so I say again that we have much to hope from the flowers."
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Man, I love this passage! Needing deduction in the realm of religion, spirituality and faith -- for me, personally, it's such a lovely, and phenomenal, idea. This is among my all-time favorite moments in the Canon; I think of it nearly every time I see a flower.

Which is sort of ironic, I guess, because the argument doesn't hold wash to modern science. The smell and color of flowers ARE a condition of life -- the color and scent is needed to attract bugs and bees, which fosters pollination. Countless species of plants would die out without their flowers.

But the thing which, to me, still seems to hold as an extra of life, and not a condition? Our appreciation in the beauty of the flowers. Indeed, "beauty" of nature seems very much to be an extra to me -- not that it exists, but that we humans are able to see things like flowers and seashores and a star-filled night sky, and see them as "beautiful." That, indeed, IS extra, as far as I can tell -- and we have much to hope for from it, indeed.

We'll never know Holmes's religion for sure (though the theories are fun!) ... but I do love that the character is spiritual, in his own way. So many cliched characters exist where the "cold, rational, logical scientist has no room for spirituality" -- but I find Holmes so much more interesting than that, a detective who applies his methods of deduction to faith. For me, it's good stuff. :)

I'd completely forgotten that passage. "Naval Treaty", from memory? It's a rather Jesuitical argument, isn't it?

Yup, it's from "The Naval Treaty." It was already a great story, but that passage made it into something even more special. Really, really love that quote ... and the sentiment behind it. :)

Alas, while I'm vaguely familiar with the Jesuits -- "vaguely familiar" is as far as it goes! :) Could you say more by what you mean by it being a Jesuitical argument? I'm quite curious! :)

Oh, I love that passage, too, Rose! Thanks for reminding me of it again.
It's a good point that both you & Holmes make, about beauty in life being an extra pleasure and not a condition.Those lines are quite beautiful, and a little out of the ordinary with Holmes.

I remember being a little bewildered (much like the other characters in the story) when I read that passage - he just seems to state it out of the blue. I thought there was an ulterior motive to his saying it - probably was looking at how easily accessible the room was from the window or something, but the lines are meaningful, anyway.

Rose - I think I meant "logically spiritual" when I said ""Jesuitical". Deeply spiritual, but based on reason - as in Thomas Aquinas (who of course predates the Society of Jesus, but whose methodology helped shape them). Holmes would have been familiar with the Church Doctors if he had been educated at Stonyhurst.

Holmes was most likely raised as an Anglican, and attended a chapel while in college.

Makes sense, since Anglicanism bore much resemblance to Roman Catholicism back then, and just because he aided the Pope it does not mean he was Catholic himself.

I have always seen Holmes as an agnostic......but I could go the extra mile and say atheist.

There's a good write-up in "Sherlock Holmes for Dummies" that tries to deduce out Holmes's religion, and does indeed come down on the side of Anglicanism. It's a neat section; for anyone who's interested in this sort of theory-ing, I highly recommend looking up the book at your local library to check out the section. :)

Jo, I wouldn't say that C of E was necessarily close to Catholic in those days. Of course, the High Church was (and is) very close to Roman Catholicism, but the Low Church evangelical end of the Anglican church (for example, my grandfather, who was ordained in the C of E) regarded Rome as little better than the Pit of Satan.

I am sure that Holmes was agnostic, if not atheist, but my feeling is still that he was educated as a Catholic, as was Watson's literary agent, Arthur Conan Doyle.

Hugh wrote: "Rose - I think I meant "logically spiritual" when I said ""Jesuitical". Deeply spiritual, but based on reason - as in Thomas Aquinas (who of course predates the Society of Jesus, but whose methodol..."

I think it would also be in character for him to hold some interest in theologians and the academics of the church. Religion would also probably interest him as it would relate to crime and criminals—how criminals think, for example.

now reading A case of Witchcraft which was offered to me to review. Just 2 chapters in but I find the "religions" of witchcraft well explored.

Link to book here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12...

I think both Hugh and Kathleen are correct in their summaries

Since Conan Doyle left the Catholic Church at a young age, it is doubtful Holmes was a Catholic.

Sherlock must have been religious. Why? Because he says "pray" so often! (sorry I couldn't resist!)

Whilst reading the books, I often thought what religion Holmes might be. I had come to the conclusion that he either had no religion, as he simply did not even think about it. Or he was an atheist. Maybe atheist is a little extreme but nonetheless.

Coming from a Catholic woman herself, I do not believe Holmes was Catholic, although he could be by default. I never saw any instance of religion at all and assumed it was not an important factor or it would have been mentioned.

Holmes placed his faith in science and reason, though he did attend chapel as a university student. Conan Doyle himself was raised Catholic, but ultimately renounced Catholicism.

Conan Doyle may have denounced Catholicism but he did not denounce religion altogether and became a spiritualist. He wasn't an atheist and nothing suggests Holmes was either.

"Religion would also probably interest him as it would relate to crime and criminals—how criminals think, for example."

That's hilarious. Are you a stand up comedian Kathleen?

Holmes wasn't predictably religious, and it's to Conan Doyle's credit that Holmes kept his faith in science and reason to the very last. Professor Challenger wasn't so lucky.

To say that Holmes had no religion, nor any religious feeling is to read the stories without paying attention.

In "The Adventure of the Gloria Scott" Holmes relates an incident from his University days that led him to the profession of detective. At one point in his reminiscences, he talks about "going to chapel." This would indicate that, at least when he was still a student, he was a church-goer. The use of the the word "chapel" rather than "church" or "services" suggests he is most likely not Anglican. "Chapel" was often used by non-conformist British protestants, but also by British Catholics, and Conan Doyle was, himself, raised Catholic (though he later became a spiritualist). Holmes's possible Catholicism is also supported by the fact that, on his mother's side, he was partly French, and France is a predominantly Catholic country.

In "The Naval Treaty" Holmes says, “There is nothing in which deduction is so necessary as in religion. It can be built up as an exact science by the reasoner. Our highest assurance of the goodness of Providence seems to me to rest in the flowers. All other things, our powers our desires, our food, are all really necessary for our existence in the first instance. But this rose is an extra. Its smell and its color are an embellishment of life, not a condition of it. It is only goodness which gives extras, and so I say again that we have much to hope from the flowers.” These are not the words of an atheist or even an agnostic.

At the end of "The Adventure of the Cardboard Box," Holmes, trying to make sense of a particularly tragic case, says, “What is the meaning of it, Watson? What object is served by this circle of misery and violence and fear? It must tend to some end, or else our universe is ruled by chance, which is unthinkable. But what end? There is the great standing perennial problem to which human reason is as far from an answer as ever.” His despair might speak of disbelief, but his assertion that the universe being ruled by chance is "unthinkable," indicates that his belief is still steadfast, though sorely tested. An atheist would have no problem believing that the universe is ruled by chance. Indeed, it's almost a fundamental belief for an atheist. But it's a belief that Holmes rejects.

His words to the murderer in "The Boscombe Valley Mystery," a man slowly dying and beyond the reach of human justice, "You yourself are aware that you will have to answer for your deed at a higher court than the Assizes," indicates a belief in the Hereafter, a Hereafter where our fate is dependent on the kind of life we have led. Since Catholics believe in justification by faith and virtuous acts, while protestants believe in justification only by Faith, Holmes's warning that the murderer will have to answer for his sin in the next life, is more evidence of a Catholic orientation.

When a terribly disfigured woman, the titular character in "The Adventure of the Veiled Lodger," contemplates suicide on the basis that her life has no use, Holmes tries to persuade her otherwise. “How can you tell?” he responds. “The example of patient suffering is in itself the most precious of all lessons to an impatient world.” This indicates a belief in the redemptive value of suffering, a peculiarly Catholic belief, another clue that Holmes is not only a believer, but was at least raised Catholic, like his creator.

In "The Crooked Man" Holmes realizes that, when a wife suspected of killing her husband addressed him as "David" when his name was James, it was meant as a reproach; specifically as a reference to the story of David and Bathsheba in the Old Testament. Knowledge of Scripture does not automatically make one a Believer, but it is more evidence on that side of the scale.

He accepted at least two cases on behalf of the Catholic Church, and more specifically the Pope. In THE HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES, mention is made of his investigation into "the little matter of the Vatican Cameos," in which Holmes remarks that he was anxious "to oblige the Pope," and in "The Adventure of Black Peter" reference is made to his looking into "the sudden death of Cardinal Tosca -- an inquiry which was carried out by him at the express desire of His Holiness the Pope . . . ." Of course, I'll grant that a paying client is a paying client, but we never hear of Holmes taking cases at the express desire of the Archbishop of Canterbury. More inferential evidence of his being, at least, a "cradle Catholic."

Finally, in "His Last Bow," chronologically the last case Holmes ever worked on in Canon, Holmes reflects on the likelihood of the coming war, and suggests that, despite the hardship it will bring, it's the will of God. "There's an east wind coming," he tells Watson. "Such a wind as never blew on England yet. It will be cold and bitter, Watson, and a good many of us may wither before its blast. But it's God's own wind none the less, and a cleaner, better, stronger land will lie in the sunshine when the storm has cleared."

Because Holmes was a practical man, a rational man, and a man of science, asserting that he must have been an atheist, or at least an agnostic, is not uncommon. But his own words in the stories, his familiarity with Scripture, and his fundamental belief in such concepts as grace through suffering, and an afterlife, do not support this conclusion.

On the contrary, it is clear from Canon that, at the very least, Holmes was a believer in God, and that the Christian Bible was at least a starting point for his understanding of the nature of that God. It also seems very likely, all things considered, that he was, at least, raised Catholic.

Holmes may have kept his faith in reason, as Stephen insists, but it was his reason and logic that led him to a belief in God. Nothing in his comments on those subjects suggests any predilection for agnosticism, let alone atheism. To insist that this is the case is almost to willfully misread (or, more correctly perhaps, willfully ignore the "inconvenient" passages of) Canon.

I would guess that he is a deist, rather than a Christian, but brought up as a Roman Catholic.

Hugh,

If he was a deist, he wouldn't try to convince a potential suicide of the redemptive power of suffering in "Veiled Lodger," he wouldn't talk about the coming war as God's will in "His Last Bow," and he certainly wouldn't have "breathed a prayer of gratitude" in THE HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES when he found that he'd fired the shots at the giant dog attacking Sir Henry in time to save his life.

All of these suggest a man who not only believes in God, but believes that God takes an interest in the affairs of humanity, even intervening on occasion. That's precisely the opposite of Deism, which admits the existence of God, but not His involvement in His creation.

As for being a Christian, he observes in "The Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle" that failing to reveal the identity of the thief to lawful authorities was not altogether inappropriate because it was Christmastime, "the season," as he puts it, "of forgiveness." You may dismiss that as nothing more than a leftover habit from childhood, but to me it suggests that it was never Conan Doyle's intention to present him as an atheist, an agnostic, or even a deist.

Excellent points. I'll go away and think about it some more.