The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of December 10, 2012 - December 16, 2012, we are reading Chapter Seven of The Improvers.

The seventh week's reading assignment is:

WEEK SEVEN: December 10, 2012 - December 16, 2012

7. The Improvers (243 - 284)


We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on October 29th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle. This weekly thread will be opened up on or before December 10th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bentley will be moderating this discussion.

Welcome,

~Bentley


TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Daniel Walker Howe

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS ARE EXTREMELY DENSE SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in her research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

TOC and the Syllabus

The following is a link to the table of contents for the book and the weekly syllabus:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Book as a Whole Thread

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

by Daniel Walker Howe

I found it interesting that the politicians were slow to use party names. "Democratic" Republicans became Democrats, and "National" Republicans remained, but I think some broke off to become Whigs. Crazy tapestry.

Indeed and I think that confuses a lot of people when they read about this era for the first time or, probably more likely, people who come across information about that early use of the term Republican and can't help but make comparisons to the Republican Party of today. They are two completely different entities.

Today's Republican Party didn't even come into existence until the issues of the Civil War were almost at a boil, the 1850s. And then it was a combination of Whigs and Free-Soilers, mostly Northern Democrats with different ideas from their party members of the South.

When I finished I'd forgotten the title of the chapter and tried to think of what bound the ideas included. Then I happened across Howe's title - "The Improvers." - Perfect. (heh)

I guess this chapter could be called the improvers and their adversaries. Differennt visions for America.

Regarding Bryan's msg. 2 I think we have to remember how soon this is after the revolutionalry war. They began as patriots/Americans. The two terms of Washington were not really contested. this was only the 9th election after Washington - only 36 years after Washingtons tenure.

Also on page 280 I was surprised to read that with 56% of the popular vote this was the highest majority before the 20th century - I questioned this especially about Lincoln in 1864 snd I found that Lincoln got only 55.03% of the popular vote but 91% of the electorial vote.

Also on page 282 I note that with advertising (newspapers) etc Jackson got "first time voters (young men, immigrants and previously apatheric)" - boy to me is that similar to Obama in 2008 with U-tube and other electronic computer social media getting his victory in that election.

Becky wrote: "Indeed and I think that confuses a lot of people when they read about this era for the first time or, probably more likely, people who come across information about that early use of the term Rep..."

Very true Becky.

Wow, what a nasty campaign between Adams & Jackson. I really can't believe that Jackson served 3 terms. Interesting in hindsight who we elect president sometimes.

Jackson really appealed to the folks electing him at that time. He had that something which made him a force to be reckoned with. And sometimes because of change in era, events, challenges, peace or war - one person would not appeal to us in a different time or place.

I think he was well meaning even though some some of his decisions were insensitive at best and cruel at their worst. The Native Americans do not have much use for the man but then others see the benefit of many things he was trying to accomplish. A different time and the United States was quite a different place.

Bentley wrote: "Jackson really appealed to the folks electing him at that time. He had that something which made him a force to be reckoned with. And sometimes because of change in era, events, challenges, peace..."

so true.

Kathy wrote: "Wow, what a nasty campaign between Adams & Jackson. I really can't believe that Jackson served 3 terms. Interesting in hindsight who we elect president sometimes."

Hi Kathy
He served only two terms, but the following term of Martin Van Buren, his protege and supporter seems to have been referred to as a "third term" for the values and policies of Jackson.

Vince wrote: "Kathy wrote: "Wow, what a nasty campaign between Adams & Jackson. I really can't believe that Jackson served 3 terms. Interesting in hindsight who we elect president sometimes."

Hi Kathy
He served..."

Ah yes, I realize that now.