Fantasy Book Club discussion

Anyone in the group have thoughts on GGK? I have been seeing books of his recommended and consistently highly rated, but haven't ever read anything by him. I just got Tigana out of the library and purchased The Summer Tree, since I saw it on a good deal at a used bookstore. What should I expect?

I haven't read anything of his yet either, but I also have Tigana at home, which was highly recommended to me by a friend on here. I hope that it is as good as they say! :)

I've always wanted to try Kay, but I've always been disappointed that none of his books ever seem to be in my local bookstore. I guess if I want them I'd have to get them online. :(

I got my copy through Paperbackswap. You could try that, it will be cheaper than ordering online. :)

I have to admit, the first 40 pages haven't captured me JUST yet. In fact, I'm really confused! But, I have faith that it will pick up.

I've read a few of his books, and you can look at my reviews on them if you want, but I'll give you a quick opinion. As a whole, I don't really like him as an author. I was gifted his entire catelogue of books up to the Serantium series, and I read Tigana first. I did like that book, it's pretty good. It's very unique and despite some atypical characters, was an entertaining book. Then I tried the Fionovar Tapestry and it was just bad. Really childish (despite his expansive vocabulary), incredibly cliche. I read Song for Arbonne after the first 2 Fianovar books (couldn't make it to 3)and liked it okay, but it wasn't as good as Tigana, the story was kind of lacking.
He seems to try too hard to sound elegant and it just comes off as a little contrived and unnatural. Still, Tigana is good. Start with that.

Sorry Josh, but I have to disagree. Guy Gavriel Kay would be in my top 5 authors of all time. I love his character development, I am quickly drawn into his story lines, and have loved every one of his books. Everyone has their own opinion of course. Case is point, I think I'm the only human on the planet who hates Seinfeld, but as for Kay, please give him a try! I can't recommend him enough!

Well, I think 4 books is a pretty good try, hehe. Like I said, I enjoyed Tigana. It was pretty well done. The Summer Tree... after reading that I had trouble believing it was the same author. The main characters are thrown into this rediculous fantasy world (filled aith elves and dwarves and unicorns and godesses, etc...) right at the beginning of the story and none of them seem to be phased by it at all except for Dave (him being the only character I really enjoyed in that book.) And the story of the dark lord sending evil minions into the land to prepare for his arrival just felt like a bad rendition of Tolkien. As far as the second book goes, I heard that the series delved into the Arthur myth, but I didn't know that meant that Arthur himself was going to be resurrected and made a character! For lack of a better word, that just seemed lame to me.
But if I don't count Fianovar, I like Tigana and I moderately like Song for Arbonne. I am intrigued by Lions of Al Rassan and plan on reading that sometime soon. As for his writing, it still does come off as a little unnatural to me, like he tries too hard to wow the reader with tons of obscure words and "poetic" prose when I'd rather just hear his honest voice as an author. And for character development, for me no one tops Robin Hobb or George R.R. Martin and I haven't found nearly as many memorable characters in Kay's books as I have theirs. In fact, except for the mage's mistress in Tigana (can't remember her name, but why can't all of his characters be written like that?) I can't remember much about any of them.
So there's my rant on GGK. :) And as you said, Laurel, to each their own opinion.

I am definitely getting more into Tigana right now though I'm definitely still confused (which is ok, so is the main character...) :) I also bought The Summer Tree for like $1 at my local used bookstore, so I'll give that one a try as well. I also am intrigued by the Lions of al Rassan and will likely end up reading that at some point... I just like to know what I'm getting into when starting a new author, so I appreciate all of the opinions!

I adore GRRM and really need to try Robin Hobb at some point.

Laurel, I hate Seinfeld too... Now there are 2 of us. ;)

Oh yeah, me three.

I also love Guy Kay's work, and have read everything he's done, since his first appearance.

I'd note several things about his career: he doesn't do the same book, twice, or recycle his plot devices over and over. He is extremely well read and well traveled, and that shows. I'd expect his books would appeal best to a mature reader, since the layers and complexities in the characters' relationships have far deeper than average insight.

His Fionavar Tapestry trilogy was intended to be mythic in scope, and if one is aware of the cultural depth to the legends and archtypes Kay draws from, the folk roots are far older than Tolkein, who, also, drew from many of the same sources. Elves and dwarves and magical swords, rings, and such occurred in many older works - the eddas, the neibelung, for a start, that underpinned much of European legend. If it's understandable that many modern readers would pick this work up, and not view it with the same scholarship, it's a shame. The most astonishing aspect of the use of the Arthurian legend here, is how deeply Kay draws off the roots (which are quite varied, beyond the Disney cartoon) and best of all, how he resolves it.

From there, Kay readers seem to split into two groups: ones who adore Tigana and ones who don't like it. The theme of that one seems to inspire a love/hate relationship - being a book with a difficult and haunting theme, it isn't necessarily the one I recommend first.

My personal favorite is The Lions of Al Rassan. Kay generally travels to a locale to soak up local color, then writes a fantasy based somewhat on the "theme" of the region. Al Rassan drew from moorish Spain, and centers around the collison of characters thrown together, and in conflict, as a result of their disparate cultures. For a deep examination of a complex set of relationships and the impacts of cultural conditioning, it's a masterwork.

Sarantine Mosaic roughly took after Constantinople.

Song for Arbonne, France.

Last Light of the Sun, the Norse. This book has a lot of scattered threads that do tie together, but loosely.

Ysabel is Kay's most recent - it crosses between modern culture and a cathedral in Provence, and ancient myth at the time of Rome and the Celts. The pace is slightly quicker and less atmospheric, so I'd suggest this one for a reader looking for a leaner prose style.

I have no issues at all with this author's style - his use of language is precise, and lyric, and highly creative. But then, I enjoy creative language that stretches my imagination, and appreciate authors who stretch their abilities to shape insights beyond words. Poetic style, done well, can be awesome for its beauty. I've never been enamored of "bare bones, simple is best" sorts of style. No one word can quite be substituted for another, the shades of meaning are never the same. Using just the right word, or pushing one to the edge of the envelope can evoke an astonishing experience. But it does require intelligence and patience to appreciate. Precision and aware use of language lifts a work beyond the common denominator - if it's not for everyone that is fine. Individuality is to be honored for variety.

Since I grew up reading, and avoided TV, the vocabulary was never for a moment an issue - though without that depth of background, I might feel left out, if I didn't already have a cultivated appreciation for words.

Forgive the newcomer's long post - I type very fast, and have savored Kay's work for many years. His contribution to the field is quite remarkable, and destined to last.

O Tigana! A book of longing and loss. I absolutely loved that book. My favorite of Kay.

My favorite is The Lions of al-Rassan. I am in love with the characters in that one!

Ysabel won the World Fantasy Award for 2008. That surprised me a little because it wasn't one of my favorites.

I like the detail he puts into his story, and the fact that his characters are complicated people who seem real long after you finish the book.

Elizabeth wrote: "I thought it was a great post, Jenny. I agree with you about almost all of it (particularly the Finovar foundation materials) except that I like Arbonne better than Lions, but only just. :-)

He'..."

Elizabeth - I don't have his book of poetry although I was aware of it. I, too, loved Song for Arbonne. I usually don't recommend that one as a first read, for folks unfamiliar with Kay, since the opening shift in generations sometimes throws them, and the lovely, ambiguous ending, I felt, plays best after one is already familiar with this author's ability to create that yearning sense of a last impression. Kay's books never really "close" that way - one is always left with threads to ponder.

Anyone who likes Guy Kay for style, character, and resonance to legend, may well enjoy Sarah Zettel's Isavolta fantasies - they read in any order, and although tied together loosely, each one is standalone. My two favorites were A Sorcerer's Treason and The Firebird's Vengeance A Novel of Isavalta.

Like several others here, I rank GGK among my favorite authors, primarily because I think he does such a great job painting a portrait of people and relationships. With the exception of the Fionavar series, he's generally not writing grandiose quest books setting good versus evil. Sure, there is hatred and conquest in most of them, but it's on a national or local or religious level, not outright annihilation.

Of all his books, I love Lions best, but probably because I absolutely believe that one person can love two others so deeply, and the tragic symmetry between Rodrigo, Jehane, and Ammar moves me very deeply. I think the Sarantine Mosaic is underrated, but I love how Crispin moves from the "f*** it, let me die" to caring enough to navigate through the intrigues of the Sarantium court. Tigana is absolutely beautiful - I am mesmerized by the vision of Baird(?) being surrounded by the taunting soldiers and proudly proclaiming "Tigana!!!" at the top of his lungs. Such love, such passion...

I also feel that the Fionavar series is one of the greatest trilogies written, and while there are clearly some parallels between it and Tolkien and its descendants, I think he does a much better job of drawing you into the personal tragedies - Matt as the king, the Dwarves as a nation, the Jennifer/Arthur/Lance triangle.

Regarding how the five responded to being taken to the new world, yeah, maybe that's a little hard to believe - but how would you respond? I'd like to think that I would take what had happened and make the best of it that I could. Also, it's not like they didn't have ANY responses at all to suddenly being transported...

Cheers,
--derek

Derek wrote: "Like several others here, I rank GGK among my favorite authors, primarily because I think he does such a great job painting a portrait of people and relationships. With the exception of the Fionav..."

Well, Derek, it appears you've fallen into friendly company! And I would agree, that the Sarantine Mosaic is underrated. The keyhole view concept - that Empires wax and wane, and that the players and wielders of power fall, but that the memory of the cultural greatness they've fostered goes on in the hands of the artists is such a refreshing take.

Derek wrote: "Tigana is absolutely beautiful - I am mesmerized by the vision of Baird(?) being surrounded by the taunting soldiers and proudly proclaiming "Tigana!!!" at the top of his lungs. Such love, such passion... "

I got goosebumps just from your post reminding me of it.

I sort of skipped saying anything about Song for Arbonne in yesterday's post, but I think that it is also very well written, and getting to watch Blaise as he moves from his misogynist/national supremacist upbringing to respecting the women (and supposedly womanish :)) southerners is great, and the conflict against his father resonates, and the disdain-followed-by-love for his brother as Blaise grows in his understanding is beautifully done. And while I think the final scene with his father, when Blaise realizes he may have accidentally fulfilled his father's goal, might have been a little understated or vague, at least it wasn't the 100% saccharine version of "everyone lived happily ever after".

I think what I like most about GGK's work is his prevalent use of art, whether it be poetry, music, mosaic, or something else, to help illustrate the depths of his character's passion.

I guess I need to go back and reread Last Light and Ysabel...

On the subject of precise use of language, I think GGK and Stephen R. Donaldson are two authors that are particularly brilliant, and SRD can even stretch my vocabulary a little... Who else would you all include in this category? Thanks!

--derek

I just started Tigana, and was doing a little research on Kay. I hadn't realized it before, but he helped Christopher Tolkien with editing The Silmarillion. Wow....that's a pretty good start to a career.

Well, so far I'm enjoying Tigana....I haven't had time to really get into it yet, but I like the little parts I've been able to squeeze in.

I've never read any of Guy Gavriel Kay but based on recommendations here I picked up Tigana - just past the prologue so can't say much other than I'm excited to read this.

I just won a bid on a first edition hardcover of A Song for Arbonne for $0.99...so that's going on the to-read pile...

Well....I ran out of time on the Library Checkout - so it had to go back - but I'm going to get on the reserve list again...If I relly like it I'll buy a copy but for now I'm going to hedge my bet with a library version. But thanks for letting me know Elizabeth.

Guy Gavriel Kay is one of my favourite authors; The Lions of Al-Rassan ranks among my all-time favourites. I've also really enjoyed Tigana and A Song for Arbonne. Ysabel was a decent book as well.

The Fionavar Tapestry series however, didn't really do much for me - it wasn't a surprise to hear Kay was writing this to get 'The Silmarillion' (which he helped Christopher Tolkien with) out of his system.

Last Light of the Sun is still waiting to be read...

Laurel wrote: "Sorry Josh, but I have to disagree. Guy Gavriel Kay would be in my top 5 authors of all time. I love his character development, I am quickly drawn into his story lines, and have loved every one o..."Kate

You're not the only person who hates Seinfeld. :)

If my house was on fire, I'd save my GGK hardovers after I knew my bf was safe. I've loved them all, and I never felt like anything was contrived. I think A Song for Arbonne is my absolute favorite, the characters and the culture an interwoven mix of Wow!

Tigana's a good starting place, imo, for those who haven't read any. Ysabel really needs you to read the Fionavar Tapestry, even though you can't rightly call it a sequel.

I'll probably reread them all later this year.

A dude I met recently recommended GGK to me recently. Glad to see he is adored by many. Based on reviews on goodreads, I think I will start with Tigana as well. I'll be adding that to my wishlist soon.

Thanks for the informative post Janny. Good stuff! :)

Viktoria wrote: "A dude I met recently recommended GGK to me recently. Glad to see he is adored by many. Based on reviews on goodreads, I think I will start with Tigana as well. I'll be adding that to my wishlist..."

From one who loves Kay's work, too, you're more than welcome, Victoria.

Oh this is wonderful news!

http://aidanmoher.com/blog/?p=1323

Jon, thanks so much for that post! Kay grew up in the city I am from, and almost always comes back to sign when a new book has come out. He hasn't been back in a while, but has promised to come for a signing with his new book. I can't wait!!! I started reading his books after his last visit, and am sad that I missed the many other visits he made before I became a fan. I will be there with books in hand!

Funny story, his mother once asked a friend of mine if he could help her find her son's book. Kay had told her that she could find a copy at the store. Chadwick politely asked her who her son was, thinking it a local unknown. When she said "Guy Kay" he very quietly smiled and said "Yes, I believe we have some of his work. Let me help you..."

Laurel wrote: "When she said "Guy Kay" he very quietly smiled and said "Yes, I believe we have some of his work. Let me help you..." "

Priceless! LOL

Jon wrote: "Oh this is wonderful news!

http://aidanmoher.com/blog/?p=1323"

Oh great!!! Thanks Jon! Under Heaven is going onto my Future Purchase lists immediately.

@ Laurel - that's really funny!

Thanks for the link Jon - looks really interesting. I love the variety of cultures he uses in his work.

Awesome news....and based on the ancient Chinese culture. This could be a great novel....

I have to echo all of Janny's, Derek's and Elizabeth's comments above. Kay is one of the most lyrical and poetic writers of his generation. I had the benefit of reading his work as it was released (I started on Fionavar Tapestry shortly after the trilogy was completed). Janny's comments above on this work are bang on. Kay was exploring some of the major themes and devices in fantasy, and if anyone had a "right" to explore some of the Tolkienesque and other deep mythological bases and characteristics of fantasy, he did, due to his work on the Silmarillion with Christopher Tolkien. I saw no rip-off at all, rather an in-depth view of fantastical elements in literature. Since then, I have acquired his new books as they came out, and five-starred them all, except his last, Ysabel, which I did not care for myself. I look forward to Under Heaven. Judging from the timing, he must have just finished the manuscript, or is in the last stages of his final revision.

Kay has almost single-handedly carved out a new niche of fantasy, namely historical fantasy, loosely based on the history of our own world, but being just different enough to make it fantasy.

Kay is well worth exploring. Don't expect the same old quest stuff. He will expand your horizons. I believe that The Lions of Al-Rassan may be made into a film. I think HBO has the rights. Great place to start, with Kay. Tigana is perhaps the most hauntingly beautiful book I have ever read.

Thanks for the link, Jon! I'll be looking forward to this one.

The Lions of Al-Rassan is indeed set to become a movie, directed by Ed Zwick, to be released in 2011 as a feature film. However, beyond this, there is prescious little information about it.

It will either be very, very good. Or, it will stink as bad as Dune.

Hey, my pleasure! He was an awful Feyd-Rautha. 'Course, everyone, even Patrick Stewart, was awful in that film.

Loved the Fionavar Tapestry, mostly liked Tigana, have The Last Light of the Sun on my TBR list that I recently acquired.

I think that Kay is a damn good writer overall. The prose is phenomenal and for the most part, the character development is quite good. I am not a poetry person, but I would pick up his book if I were. His writing is just that polished.

I'm glad to hear about other excellent GGK books out there that I need to pursue. Will plan on picking up one of these days!