Joe Abercrombie Fans discussion

I've just finished reading Red Country (literally - a few minutes ago) and I have a couple of questions...

1. Why do you think Cosca did not kill Shivers when they met at the beginning of the book? Looked like the Company pretty much killed everyone in their path.

2. How did Cosca and Friendly escape from Lorsen's custody at the end? After the Imperial Legate "visit" they were arrested and I think there still were some Practicals left to guard them on the trip back.

Well, they were burning and looting poor settlements, not trying to attack named Northmen. The fact he's clearly seen a few battles may have put them off attacking him? Just a thought...

As for Cosca escaping, not sure about that. It did strike me as odd too though. I hated that bit (only in that Cosca turned out to be such a bitter man), Abercrombie really changed my mind about Cosca in this book. I really liked the old mercenary before, but in this book you get to see him warts and all, and it's not a pretty sight...

Yes, reading this was tough as Cosca was one of my favorite characters. I loved him in Best Served Cold. However, the passage when Temple asked him repeatedly what it is Cosca wants was a masterpiece. I completely buy into this vision of Cosca as an old tired man who lost his way long ago, has a lot of regrets and pretty much nothing good to show for his life.

It was fun to follow Cosca but I feel that he got what he deserved at the end.

Can't argue with that. You know the whole time that he's mercenary, but you can't help loving the old drunk, especially when he rejoins Monza. But in Red Country, just the abject inhumanity of the man is heartbreaking. And yes, when he says he won't be disappointed again, you really do see what a tired old man he is...

Abercrombie is such a brilliant writer of characters, nothing's black and white, just shades of grey with him... Oh, I could was lyrical about the man!

I find it hard to go back to other authors now that I've read every book by Joe... The characters created by other authors are just so simplistic, one dimensional or at most two dimensional (you think someone was good but they are in fact evil - wow, what a twist!).

I actually started reading non-fiction recently and find it a better approximation of Joe's work. Or should that be the other way - Joe's work approximates real life so well...

Wow, so great. Can't say enough.. Just great, as usual. Logen Ninefingers has always been my favorite, and I'm very partial to Glokta.
“I’ve fought in three campaigns,” he began. “In seven pitched battles. In countless raids and skirmishes and desperate defences, and bloody actions of every kind. I’ve fought in the driving snow, the blasting wind, the middle of the night. I’ve been fighting all my life, one enemy or another, one friend or another. I’ve known little else. I’ve seen men killed for a word, for a look, for nothing at all. A woman tried to stab me once for killing her husband, and I threw her down a well. And that’s far from the worst of it. Life used to be cheap as dirt to me. Cheaper.

“I’ve fought ten single combats and I won them all, but I fought on the wrong side and for all the wrong reasons. I’ve been ruthless, and brutal, and a coward. I’ve stabbed men in the back, burned them, drowned them, crushed them with rocks, killed them asleep, unarmed, or running away. I’ve run away myself more than once. I’ve pissed myself with fear. I’ve begged for my life. I’ve been wounded, often, and badly, and screamed and cried like a baby whose mother took her tit away. I’ve no doubt the world would be a better place if I’d been killed years ago, but I haven’t been, and I don’t know why.”

He looked down at his hands, pink and clean on the stone. “There are few men with more blood on their hands than me. None, that I know of. The Bloody-Nine they call me, my enemies, and there’s a lot of ’em. Always more enemies, and fewer friends. Blood gets you nothing but more blood. It follows me now, always, like my shadow, and like my shadow I can never be free of it. I should never be free of it. I’ve earned it. I’ve deserved it. I’ve sought it out. Such is my punishment.”
― Joe Abercrombie, The Blade Itself

The reason they didn't kill Shivers outright was

1: he had a knife to the throat of Brachio (I think that was his name but not sure) and they didn't want to lose one of their top generals.

2: shivers is a huge Northman with a burnt, scarred face that probably scared the mercs.

3: because he and Cosca had worked together in the past and although Cosca is a cheating, backstabbing merc, he might hold a small amount of respect for Shivers... Or because he knows what a good fighter Shivers is he may not have wanted to take the risk of loosing any of his men if he didn't have to.

As for how he escaped from custody. Cosca can be very charismatic and resourceful, Use your imagination.

I know Shivers had one of Cosca's men hostage but after he let the guy go they could have stuck him with arrows from a distance any time without any losses on their side.

About Cosca escaping - in my mind it is too big of a "detail" to be left to imagination. Of course it is a fictional story so anything goes but this has to be the first time I don't have a clear explanation for what happened in a book by Joe.

I thought about Hedges' involvement - he went to talk with Cosca before they attacked the Dragon People and also Hedges appears at the end at the farm. So maybe Hedges helped Cosca and Friendly escape? But then again Hedges was wounded so how was he supposed to deal with a handful of Practicals?

I completely forgot about Shivers taking a merc hostage. And of course, he worked with Shivers and Monza (can't believe that slipped my mind), so chances are he wouldn't have attacked him outright. I reckon though, had Shivers travelled with them for long, there would have been bloodshed somewhere down the line...

The reappearance of Cosca and Friendly at the end just did seem a bit beyond belief, but as Pawel said, it's fiction and you don't always get explanations with fiction!

Hello. Good questions and good discussion.
I think that Cosca has shown himself as a leader who won't fight when he doesn't have to, or just to fight easy victories.
(In previous books he also fought for what's right, but tired, and disappointed as he is, he just don't bother anymore)
And the Northman (I read that as a Norwegian :-)) is an unpredictable hazard best left alone.
Regarding the escape, I think that his mercenaries may have given a hand hoping he could help retaining some of the gold. And maybe since Lorsen wouldn't have many men left to defend Cosca and Friendly's escape, our friend Mr. Abercrombie just ditched that part to give us a small surprise towards the end?

But this is really why I love to read. Because when there are loose ends, wee all can make our own more or less logical assumptions of what might or might not have happened.

And I totally agree about Joe Abercrombie create the best characters I've ever seen.

I really like the way it is never implicitly stated that Lamb is the Bloody Nine - just hinted at, to tease the reader, as in Lamb's turn of phrase - "Say one thing... "So, I wonder does Lamb leaving Shy and Temple at the end of this book pave the way for his reappearance in another??

If they had have shot Shivers what if they didn't kill him straight away? He is a huge man and if he just got hit in the arm or the leg he still could have taken out a few mercs before they took him out totally.

Cosca probably saw this and thought it better to let a sleeping dog lie, and maybe he thought Shivers would join him, or maybe he knew how high Shivers had risen in the north and didn't want other Northmen tracking him down for revenge. Or he could have just liked Shivers enough to let him walk away.

Hi Sarah
I think that Abercrombie just love to tease his readers. And this is one way of doing it.
To your question, yes, in my opinion he leaves. Confronted with Shivers he sees that his presence is dangerous for his family, so Logan say goodbye to his loved ones. This decision is also kind of easy for him, for deep down he think he doesn't deserve the kind of happiness a family give.

###difficult writing on the "pad" today
Sarah, my last sentence was to be:
Maybe well see a novel about his life from the big jump out the window till he meet Shy and her motet?

I don't know, I have the feeling that'll be the last we actually see of the Bloody Nine... Abercrombie has a tendency to leave you guessing, and wanting more (remember Ferro!).

I love the fact, though, that Logan just doesn't change. The way he reverts back to his killing ways without barely a flicker is shocking! Especially as Shy has absolutely no idea of who he is, really. When I twigged who Lamb was, I actually got kind of angry with Shy and her treatment of him. I really wanted 'Lamb' to show his true nature and shut her up. She did grow on me though, I must say...

And finally, as an aside, I love Abercrombie's writing of women characters! Monza, Wonderful, Vitari, Shy... Even Ardee West in her own way. It makes such a nice change from the usual fare in fantasy fiction. Thanks Joe!

only Joe Abercrombie could successfully mix his usual characters in a more or less spaghetti western setting an epic read....sort of the good the bad and the ninefingers..lol