The Next Best Book Club discussion

Ok, this is a spoiler thread....
Spoil away.....

I loved this book - but I must say when Kinko and Camel died - I was so upset. It almost spoiled it for me.

I also loved this book. I read it for a book club and was surprisingly, well surprised! I thought that I would never like a book about a circus, but it was so much deeper and I loved Rosie (the elephant)!.

I too loved Rosie - I'm not so sure the author had to make the twist where Rosie was responsible for the death. I could have been fine with him just getting trampled in a stampede. I kind of didn't want her to "strike back".

I liked that Rosie was the one responsible for the death-especially with the way it was set up so that you think it's Marlena, I liked that little twist.

I agree that the Camel and Kinko stuff was so sad-Camel's whole story just killed me. It's so crazy to think that people really got so sick from drinking that stuff.

That ailment from drinking I'd never heard of before - I found it very intersting.

My own book, Cast the First Stone, (release date is March 18--and I'll put all that in the promo section soon) is set in the Great Depression and my heroine's brother is a bootlegger. I did a lot of research, and it was amazing to learn how prevalent drinking poisoned liquor really was. There was one incident in Wichita, Kansas where some bad liquor made the rounds and something like a few hundred people were left paralyzed, some permanently, others for several weeks.
See, it's not so bad now days!

I loaned my copy to my sister but doesn't Gruen talk a bit about the "Jake Leg" epidemic in the author's notes? It's so scary! I guess people were drinking all kinds of crazy stuff during prohibition.

I really loved this book from the get go. At the time I read it, it appealed to me as much for the story line as it did for her attention to the elderly in senior facilities. My father-in-law, who has since passed away, was quite a bit like the elderly Jacob.

For anyone who has not seen it, Sara Gruen is interviewed on Border's online book club about what it took to write this book.

I liked the book well enough but absolutely loved the ending! I was so happy for him that he was going to be able to continue leading an active and productive life doing what he loved, instead of wasting away in a nursing home.

Robin, I was also very unhappy about the way Kinko & Camel were killed. But that wasn't the part that bothered me most. For me, and I'm no prude, but I hated the part where Jacob lost his virginity while drunk & with the two women. Just a yuck moment for me that I could have done without.

Ah...I can see that - to be honest I totally forgot about that scene until you just mentioned it.

To Dorie...I too loved that he ran away with the circus at the end - I was so sad to learn his nurse was leaving and really didn't want to see him left behind in the home.

I agree. I like that there was a nurse portrayed as compassionate and understanding (for a change), then she was going to leave and... I felt absolutely dismayed. The twist that was created at the end was heartwarming.

One of my favorite parts about the nurse is when she "left his room" and then knocked and came back in. I thought that was great how she adjusted her work habit after it was brought to her attention - I think that another person might have been so locked into "routine" that they would have just brushed it off.

-- Robin (30 days until Avempartha)

I loved this book!!!!! I can't wait to see if the movie lives up to the book!

There is a movie? I didn't know

I have read this book three times in the last year or so and this is an amazing story that will definitely hold up to the test of time.

My book club read it a few months ago and we were almost unanimous in our love of this book. Gruen did a wonderful job of evoking the time period and the circus life. Her way of using the current happenings in the rest home to spark Jacob's past memories of the circus is brilliant.

She also, in a subtle way, brought the issue of elder care and elder respect into the discussion by pointing out the fact that we sometimes treat the elderly as babies and forget that they are adults and have wants and needs and desires. This is so important for us to remember as our population ages and our loved ones deteriorate.

I've just finished this book, and I really loved it! Like someone else said - I didn't really expect to enjoy a book about the circus so much, but I really did!

The one bit that I really didn't like was where Jacob was forced to take the pill that he didn't want to take! What happened to patient's rights?! And he wasn't actually even a patient really, more of a resident ... anyway, that's the nurse in me talking there.

I loved the ending - I was so happy he managed to get to the circus, and even more so that he got to run away with them again! A great book, and I didn't know they were making a film but while I was reading I was thinking it would make a good film, so I'll definitely go see that when it comes out.

I read this sometime last year and absolutely loved it! Rosie was my favorite. I liked the ending as well - it made me happy to see he was back with the circus instead of just waiting for the end in his nursing home.

GREAT book. Probably the best I read last year. Has anyone read anything else by Sara Gruen? I know she wrote a few books prior and I'm curious to see whether they came anywhere near it.

I've heard that Sara Gruen's other books are not up to the same standards as Water For Elephants. I've, personally, not read any of her other books though so cannot say for sure.

I was part of two bookclubs for this book. The first one really loved it (unanimous). The most recent one...about 2 weeks ago - got very mixed reviews and I was very surprised by this. The leader of the group has VERY similar tastes to my own and we disagreed on this book almost 180 degrees. I listened to everything they had to say. And could seem some points but it did not diminish my love for this very well written and compelling book.

-- Robin (27 days until Avempartha)

I loved this book as well when I read it and loved the ending. I think if it had ended any other way I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. Perfect ending to his way of life.

I think I read this book about a year ago and absolutely LOVED it...the Jacob in the nursing home alternated between making me laugh and breaking my heart, and I was very much interested in the traveling circus theme. I *loved* the ending!

A lot of people who I talked to about this book said the cruelty to Rosie was the most disturbing thing. It was disturbing, but then again, the whole ending of the book depended on that, the killing and having sympathy for it. But the nursing home part REALLY broke my heart, too. Maybe because it's so true. I found myself praying, oh please don't let me end up alone like that. I loved it that he ran away with the circus for the second time in his life!


Bree wrote: "I think I read this book about a year ago and absolutely LOVED it...the Jacob in the nursing home alternated between making me laugh and breaking my heart, and I was very much interested in the tra..."

Rebbie, I agree with you that although disturbing, the cruelty to Rosie was important for the ending. It was difficult for me to read those parts, but given the time period and what little I know about circus life, this was prevelant then. I loved the book and am so glad that I finally read it. I was especially glad to see Jacob run off with the circus at the end!

Yeah, that ending is so hopeful, so affirming, isn't it?

Shannon wrote: "Rebbie, I agree with you that although disturbing, the cruelty to Rosie was important for the ending. It was difficult for me to read those parts, but given the time period and what little I know ..."

And the cruelty wasn't just to Rosie although it was bad. August was cruel to everyone around him. Also the guys who did the "red lighting" and Camel's death. There were a lot of sad parts to this book but I don't think any of it was gratuitous.

And the nursing home part was very hard for me also, I've seen it in action. So very sad. I enjoyed both parts of the story, past and present. Normally I like one better than the other but Gruen did such a wonderful job putting this book together.

I didn't take the abuse of Rosie nearly as hard as some people did. Yes, it was very hard to read, but maybe since I knew it was coming, I didn't have too rough a time reading it. It was also able to look past it and realize that it was a good thing that she put this in the book, because it was important to the end of the story AND because I'm certain it really happened to circus animals back then and probably still happens today.

I really enjoyed this book. I liked the twist about August's death. He was so mean and abusive to Rosie. I am glad that she got the final blow in. He had no respect for her or any of the other animals (including humans) for that matter and I am satisfied that he got what he deserved.

I never thought much about how circuses function, especially at this particular time. This book portrays a brutal life with many shady characters. I guess that you could say that it is a reflection on life and human nature in general. There are good and bad in all groups of people. Also I liked how the book showed that the choices that we make effect other people. Jacob leaving that night to go and kill August had a huge impact on his roommates lives or maybe deaths is more to the point.

The passages from the nursing I found very sad. People are so uncomfortable around people who are aging. They forget that where ever you are in your life these people have already been there and beyond. My favorite character in the whole book was Rosemary.

The one thing that I am having a hard time reconciling is if August really was mentally ill or if he was just an abusive and manipulative person.

So what did you really love about this book, everyone, if you had to rank the elements:
the character of Rosie
learning about the circus in the 30s
the old man in the nursing home
I think a lot of people will answer "Rosie". And I would agree. I'm not sure I can think of another animal in literature that really grabbed me like she did.

#1 for me would have to be the ending (unless that's not a choice, then just move them up one) LOL I just couldn't imagine another ending for this book.

Rosie was #2 for me, she definitely had enough personality to make her a prime character

#3 would be the old man in the nursing home

#4 would be the circus in the 30's

For me it would be:

1. Rosie, she had as much personality as all of the other characters,

2. August's death at the hand of Rosie who was abused by August all of the time.

3. Learning about circus life in general.

4. Seeing the circus in the 30's when there was prohibition as well as the circus.

5. The ending was just too cool. I loved it.

1. circus in the 30's
2. the ending...really liked the full circle of Jacob's life
3. Rosie...I read this a year ago and don't remember Rosie so well

hmm, I would say ...

1. the ending!
2. circus life
3. Rosie
4. the nursing home elements

Yeah, I loved the ending too! So hopeful. :)

I would say for me.

1. I liked the "switching" between the old man and the young man it broke the story up a lot and I enjoyed the juxtapositions between them.

2. The fact that he ran away with the circus in the end.

3. Circus Life

4. Rosie

1. I loved the setting. My major in college was social history, and I wrote a lot of papers on circuses and sideshows and their place in American history. She did great research, and integrated it nicely into her story. It really came alive.

2. I loved the character of Jacob in the nursing home. He was so vividly realized: his wants, his fears, his tenacity.

I hated August, he made me so angry!

I have read, and tend to like it better, that in the end it's not like Jacob ran away with the circus, more like he may have perhaps died peacefully and ended up with the circus that way. I really like the way of thinking about it like that.

I'm surprised nobody on here's said anything negative about the book. I thought the characters were cartoonish and the plot wasn't exceptionally interesting. I'm not saying it was awful, but it was just kinda forgettable.

Yeah, I didn't think it was fantastic but I must admit I had rather strong feelings about August and for an author to make me feel like that then they must have done a good job, in my book.

It's been a while since I've read it so I can't say about the black and white protrayal of characters. I honestly don't remember all of the details but still August pees me off.

Actually I didn't find myself thinking too much about the other characters really, besides Rosie and a few of the minor characters. Hm, now you've made me think :)

I felt a little sorry for August. Yeah, he's an evil wife-beating prick. But he's also mentally ill, right? I remember thinking Marlena was a moron for marrying a guy she didn't even know, but no one in the book seems to think that.

For the record though, the part where August gets murdered by the elephant is probably the best part of the book.

I was so surprised to find out that Rosie killed August--what a great twist. Anyway, that's the story that Jacob's telling. But given that he can't even remember the name of his nurse, how reliable is he has a narrator? Some people have complained about the abuse of the animals but that was the reality of the time. And the humans certainly suffered just as greatly. I loved that Jacob got to end his days with the circus!

I had read another by Sara Gruen, Flying Changes, which was OK, but fairly light-weight. When I saw Water for Elephants, I thought, "why not?" Sometimes you need something light to intersperse with those that are a little tougher going. So I was more than mildly surprised with this one. It is SO much better. I enjoyed the writing. Yes, it's easy going, but I think that is deceptive. Is not the basis of the book making the most of life as it presents itself? Jacob was suddenly "orphaned", without funds, couldn't finish college and become a vet as planned. It's not really like he just ran off to the circus. The circus is where the animals are. It's the 30s, farming/farmers wasn't going to do it for him. It's also a reminder to think, look around, observe others when facing an unfamiliar situation.

I was torn with August, while I felt bad for him since he had a problem, I have absolutely no tolerance for how he treated Rosie or his wife. I wanted them seperate and him away from Rosie, but I personally wouldn't have said I wanted him dead. With that being said, if he were to be killed, I thought it would be best if it were Rosie. For Marlena or Jacob to do it, it would have upset me, because as humans they had more choices, but that is my opinion.

I loved how the story ended, it put a smile on my face. I also really enjoyed the Jacob's parts as a old man.

Overall, I enjoyed the book and honestly was pleasantly surprised. I wasn't sure it was the type of book I would like, but it came highly recommended and I am glad I gave it a try.

Add me to those singing this book's praises! I read it in one very slow shift at work. I had gotten so bound up in what was happening that when I realized that Rosie had killed August, I literally gasped out loud and let out an "Oh no!" I forgot that this was in the middle of a stampede and no one would ever know. I just flashed onto another book I read that had a terrible scene of hanging an elephant and thought that was going to happen to Rosie. I was ready to throw the book against the wall and never pick it up again! But of course it all worked out okay, thankfully!

My only real problem with the book was the way that August and Marlena just immediately took Jacob under their wing. They're the stars of the show, this young guy just hops on the train and immediately he gets to be one of the cool kids? I overlooked it, but I didn't buy it.

My edition had a reader's group guide in the back that I looked through. It refers to how Jacob's story followed the story of the Biblical Jacob. I missed that completely. I still don't see it. Can anyone else point out what I'm missing?

Jacob as in Jacob's ladder? Yeah, I don't see that either. Daniel in the lion's den makes more sense...

I rather liked that Rosie had this dark murderous side to her. She probably had more depth than any of the human characters. I did think the book would end with an elephant hanging. I've read a couple of well-written circus stories about elephant executions. But as much as I liked August's murder scene, it still reeked of a deus ex machina. It's entirely too convenient, like Gruen was thinking, "Jeez, how do I get them out of August's evil clutches? Oh, I'll just have Rosie step on his head." And yet it makes for a good scene what with the watermelon metaphor.

I liked the way she repeated the opening scene twice. The first time, you assumed it was a person - Marlena - that killed August. The second time, in context, you realized that it was Rosie.

Re Jacob -- My edition said that too, and I thought it was a big reach. Going at it backwards, the big biblical Jacob stories are:
Jacob fooling his father at a young age/stealing his brother's blessing
Jacob's ladder/dream
Jacob choosing one wife and having another substituted
Jacob favoring one son over the others

None of those seem to me to have any application to this book.

You can add me as one of the lovers of this book. I've always had a fascination with the circus and after my first visit at 7 well my love of elephants became a fascination.

August's death by Rosie may seem convenient but think about abuse of any kind. When you've had enough and an opportunity arises, you kind of take it. I would certainly think it true of animals too. Elephants are smart and Rosie proved that.

I found Jacob likable in the circus but absolutely adorable in the nursing home setting.

I hated August the same as everyone but the character that I despised the most was Uncle Al. He took advantage of people, threatened them as well as other things. It may have been his attitude toward the animals and people that helped bring the worst out in August. His excuse of not being able to lose him, did not do August any favors. He certainly wasn't looking out for Marlena at all.

I think one of the reasons that Marlena is very unaware & somewhat innocent of what goes on around her is that 1) there has to be a character with somewhat innocent ignorance to balance out the awful in the story and 2) she chose not to know about things to make her "hard" life easier. Her marrying August without knowing him shows her desperation and need to get out of where she was at that time and age of her life.

Jacob's character grows throughout the story from youthful bliss to a reality hit him grownup. He certainly has to grow up with Marlena being pregnant.

I wanted to enjoy this book, but although it showed a lot of promise I thought it failed to live up to a lot of the reviews. Just a few of my concerns were the heavy-handed use of slang, which I think stood in the way of the author really giving some of the characters the depth they deserved, and her failure to fully draw out some of the psychological motivation of the characters.

It wasn't a terrible book, but it was one of the few that I really had a hard time finishing because I just wasn't enjoying it any longer. Oh well...