Jane Austen discussion
Book: Sense & Sensibility
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S&S - anti-romantic!
Post the link Soph so that we can all go tell this lunatic what a fool they are! ;)I don't see how (although it didn't end well) the story between Marianne and Willoughby couldn't be deemed as romantic, and surely any sorry where two sisters fall in love and are happy at the end is romantic?!
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http://www.editorskylar.com/jane2.html
I don't think in the other one it said anything about S&S really , mainly P&P. it was just a passing comment but I was outraged!
Soph, you are right, I do have something to say!*RAGE* - I mean, seriously, come on. This person is either willfully ignorant of Brandon's deep romanticism, or is choosing to look at the novel in such a way as to actively criticize. When they say that in the novel "Sense is the proper master of Sensibility," - that's not what it is about at all! It is about both Sense and Sensibility coming together and tempering each other to make way for a wonderfully happy, and romantic relationship.
*pokes tongue out at author*
Soph, can we beat this author up in that slapping thread after we are finished with Lady Catherine? (Who we probably should get back to sometime soon, I might add :) )
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We do need to get back to that! Go ahead Becca :)
urmm, come again, that is one of the reasons my male friends run from Austen like her work has the plague. Unromantic, what version, did the author read?Slap thread worthy.
What?! =O I can't believe anyone could claim that S&S was "anti-romantic"!! It is totally a romantic story!Gah!! Ignorant people..... *rolls eyes*
The article ended this way "Sense, in this novel, is the proper master of sensibility. The role of emotion is not wholly rejected, but the romantic notion that emotion ought to reign supreme is."Elinor was the daughter who sense was attached to in the novel and she bleed emotion. Yes, she did not have the TYPE of romantic notions that Marianne has but golly, she possessed her own. Emotion was not rejected at all! I think I need to stop typing because my 'emotions' will get the better of me. I accept criticism but when it is border line...
Soph - Thanks. :) I think on the thread it was your turn to reply to my last verbal battering.Marren - :D Silly male friends. You are right, totally slap thread worthy.
Aerykah - Hehe, *rolls eyes too*
Marren - I had to stop myself typing too. :D Very good points though!
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I think they ignored one character especially while reading the book - Colonel Brandon! The story may not be based on romance, but I can2t think someone call it as anti-romantic...
Aerykah wrote: "What?! =O I can't believe anyone could claim that S&S was "anti-romantic"!! It is totally a romantic story!Gah!! Ignorant people..... *rolls eyes*"
lol agreed :)
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Opps, I never realized the updates on this thread....See some folks need to realize that love is not always a volcanic eruption. It is not always intense like Mr. Darcy and Lizzie's tangle. Love comes softly sometimes (borrowed from Janette Oake). There is not eruption but a gentle spark to sooth the heart.
Speaking from experience erhem :D Both types
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S&S unromantic?Is that person crazy?Colonel Brandon is one of the most romantic of Austen's heroes.Did this person miss Colonel Brandon's love for his Eliza and then looking everywhere for her when he got back for India after his brother throw her off(plus he only went to India to try to get her a happy marriage with his brother),him taking care of her daughter after she died in his arms,then falling in love again with Marianne.I think this person needs to read S&S again.
Nicole D. wrote: "S&S unromantic?Is that person crazy?Colonel Brandon is one of the most romantic of Austen's heroes.Did this person miss Colonel Brandon's love for his Eliza and then looking everywhere for her whe..."
Perfectly expressed - I think that person may have been skipping pages of Col. Brandon's story, in my humble opinion. :D
This person probably had a bit to drink before writing about Sense and Sensibility being unromantic.ohhhh you know what just occur to me whilst I am writing, maybe the person was looking for a kiss or a sensual scene. I do not know, just trying to figure out why one would make such assumption. I agree with Nicole, this persons needs to read the book again. I am rereading it soon.
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Agree about the drink ;)
I agree Soph, none of Austen books needs a sensual scene..the letters are sensual enough. It baffles me when, people say that a kiss is necessary to complete the movie. I honestly enjoy some of the kisses like the one in the latest Persuasion but they do not need severe groping like some suggest. I notice people are asking for sex scenes now...Good gracious!
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Really? People want sex scenes in a Jane Austen? Why not just watch a modern romance then because at some point it stops being Jane Austen... and to be honest, to my way of thinking it stops being romantic.
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It does stop being romantic!
Can you believe how sick people are now days?!
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I don't mind a kissing or sex scene in a modern book/movie, although I don't want to see the whole intricate thing with lots of detail...But I agree, it'd just be wrong in a Jane Austen adaptation. Jane would faint in shock, I am sure!
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Sarah Louise wrote: "I don't mind a kissing or sex scene in a modern book/movie, although I don't want to see the whole intricate thing with lots of detail...But I agree, it'd just be wrong in a Jane Austen adaptatio..."
I just pictured Jane fainting and Cassandra running for the smelling salts.
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So funny Marren!When I went to Jane's house, I had tea & cake afterward in Cassandra's Cup - a cafe just opposite :)
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Yes, it was lovely! I want to go again :)
Well, none of you should read "Bitch in a Bonnet..." because his entire thesis is that Jane Austen is NOT romantic, and the first book he slashes with his pen is S&S. He proves his point thoroughly, and has me convinced. There are no, repeat, no, zero, nada, nil, love scenes in the book whatsoever. Not once does anyone say "I love you." What IS written about repeatedly is financial arrangements--who can marry who, who ends up marrying who, etc., based on their finances. This is a major theme in all of Austen's works, as it was a major theme of the times...but that doesn't mean it gets dismissed as unimportant to the relationships. Also in the book, Marianne stands in for Emotion and Romance; Elinor is Reason. In the end, Elinor is more than shown to be the superior one, the one who behaved best.
Consider this a friendly heads up, ladies, and be forewarned: If you are as angry as it sounds like at the very thought of someone saying S&S isn't romantic, then you probably shouldn't read "Bitch in a Bonnet..."
In one of the biography written on Jane by her relations Jane says "I could not sit seriously down to write a serious romance under any motive than to save my life and if it were indispensable for me to keep it up and never relax into laughing at myself or at other people, I am sure I should be hung before I had finished the first chapter." (Forgive me for not providing the text this quote came from. One of the few times I forgot to write a complete citation in my journal). The above quote indeed shows that Austen never aimed for heavy romance in any of her stories but as a reader I feel the gentle chemistry in all her stories. Now since we are addressing Sense and Sensibility I will stick to the novel. One must remember the writing period. Late 18th century and to early 19th century of a novel by a lady of "gentle breeding" by her mama`s side. You will not find Willoughby french kissing Marianne in the hedges. This is certainly not how Austen wrote. One may not read directly "I love you" (I am not sure ever reading it indeed) because Austen never intended it that way. Instead we are treated with words such as"He was released...from a woman whom he had long ceased to love..." "His heart was now open to Elinor_ all its weaknesses, all its errors confessed..." Chapter 49 or "Marianne could not love by halves; and her whole heart became, in time, as much devoted to her husband, as it had once been to Willoughby." Now I have not read a serious romance from that time period. Wait a minute I have read many Regency romances (however they were written and published in the 20th and 21st century, so technically I have not read a Regency novel written and published in the Regency period) and it is true that their storylines and S&S defer because S&S is not a serious/heavy romance but it is romance orientated in my humble opinion.
Marren wrote: "In one of the biography written on Jane by her relations Jane says "I could not sit seriously down to write a serious romance under any motive than to save my life and if it were indispensable for ..."Amen to that. :)
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How can it be said that Persuasion is not romantic? The letter is v romantic! Explanation to why persuasion is romantic should not be necessary!
And pride and prejudice; mr Darcy's proposals are romantic - the first declaration of love was romantic; '.... you must allow me to tell you how ardently i admire and love you.' Even if it went a little down hill from there ;) and the second proposal as well as the ensuing conversations between the engaged couple talking about when and why they fell in love with each other are funny but also highly romantic, in my opinion.
Exactly Marren, Soph.The understanding of people in Jane Austen's novels gives a depth to the characters that can certainly be interpreted in different ways but to deny that there is any romance in the books is silly.
So what if she poked a little fun at it? Read more into them by all means, but don't try to make them something less.
It makes me wonder whether in 100 years time they will be denying that Terry Pratchett's Discworld books are Fantasy because they parody our world today and the characters are reflections of real personality traits.
Actually, this book I do not find particularly romantic, at least not the relationship between Marianne and Colonel Brandon. Come on, she totally picked him because there were no one else, with Willoughby not being an option anymore. I guess you can read things in quite a different light :)
Marte wrote: "Actually, this book I do not find particularly romantic, at least not the relationship between Marianne and Colonel Brandon. Come on, she totally picked him because there were no one else, with Wil...""Colonel Brandon was now as happy, as all those who best loved him, believed he deserved to be; - in Marianne he was consoled for every past affliction; - her regard and her society restored his mind to animation, and his spirits to cheerfulness; and that Marianne found her own happiness in forming his, was equally the persuasion and delight of each observing friend. Marianne could never love by halves; and her whole heart became, in time, as much devoted to her husband as it had once been to Willoughby."
You'll have to forgive me, Marte, but I simply cannot believe that Marianne only picked Brandon because there was no one else. And I at least find the above passage completely romantic. :)
Rachel wrote: "WHAT?! Just... WHAT?!!
*shudder*"
Haha, are you shuddering at what I just posted, or at the idea that S&S isn't romantic? :)
At the idea that this isn't romantic! This is my favourite of the Austen novels, and the book and the film adaptations have me in tears every single time I read / watch them, with both the relationship between Elinor and Edward, and the development of the relationship between Marianne and Brandon. Perhaps it is not some-people's cup of tea, and therefore they do not find it romantic in their sense of the word, but to say it is ANTI-romantic is outrageous!!
Rachel wrote: "At the idea that this isn't romantic! This is my favourite of the Austen novels, and the book and the film adaptations have me in tears every single time I read / watch them, with both the relation..."I am absolutely the same! This is my favourite novel (tied with Northanger Abbey) and like you I am in tears every time I read or watch this story. Both relationships are beautiful and I found it awful when I read this post that anyone could consider Sense and Sensibility anti-romantic. I do understand perhaps not liking or appreciating the story or character development, and therefore not finding it romantic. Everyone has their own idea of romance, that I freely admit to. But to call S&S anti-romantic is simply criminal, in my not-so-professional opinion.
'Austen, the author of the anti-romantic Sense and Sensibility...' :O WHAT!
I was so shocked! It may not be the most romantic but not sure about anti-romantic!
Any thoughts?
I thought Becca would have something to say ;)