Dragons, dragons and-you guessed it, dragons! discussion

Here we can discuss our different view points on what a dragon is like. Even better go find one and ask them what it is like!!!
Here are some questions that [][][][][][][][] put up for us to think about and get us started. Thanks [][][][][][][][]!!!
Do you think dragons are like animals, or intelligent beings? Mindspeakers, or English speaking dragons? Do they mind being ridden? Do they bond to specific people? Are they carnivores - or do they get their energy from moonlight?

A dragon is huge flying lizard who breathes fire and on rare occasions, ice. Dragons do not get their strength at the moonlight, they are beings that is a product of nature, in some books. Others, they're pure brute strength that can topple any large armies at their whim. Most dragons are carnivorous, for meat is one of their main meals. Dragons can speak both mind and in speech. Mostly in video games, dragons speak the English language but I prefer the mind speaker type for most dragons breath fire. They bond to people who they think that is not a threat to them, they cherish the bonds and become good allies in battle. Take the book of Eragon for example for the situation.

And as a conclusion, dragons are a product of the imagination, you can make many things or even think of how you will envision a dragon.

That's what this is about xD

Thanks again, Cole!! And LOL, you used my questions :) Thanks.

Hmm ... yeah, that's pretty cool! I love hearing all the different ideas about dragons. It's so cool how everyone's minds imagine them differently :)
So, personally, I like them all.

I even made a list of how different authors have different dragons! Like how in DragonSpell there are minor and major dragons, and that hte major dragons can mindspeak only to a particular person. In Dragon Slippers, the dragons in have hoards of different things, one collects stain glass windows, the other shoes, one even dogs! In Dragon Rider, they don't eat, but get their energy from sunlight. Every dragon's scales are silver in this book, and their breath has a healing power. It's so cool how everything's different :) I have more, but I won't bore you with them xD.
But what books have you guys read with really different ideas of dragons in them?
I think how I imagine dragons, and how I like them the BEST, is when they're more typical ... Large and intellegent, with the ability to speak or mindspeak, normal fire-breath, though the fire is stronger than human fire. In my imagination, they do not have much to do with humans unless they must ... keeping to themselves. They would help humans if it was a human they trusted, and respected ... a friend, but otherwise I think humans would be pretty disdainful to them ... I mean, no scales, no claws, no fire, we seem pretty helpless, don't we?

But what do you think? What's your favourite idea of dragons? What dragons in books are your favourite types, or are they completely different in your imagination??

:)

I like dragons that aren't so obvious, and I get a bit bored of books and films that have them mainly as foils to the square-shouldered or skinny-boy protagonists, or as big animals that are ravaging the countryside eating virgins chained to rocks (and so must be slaughtered). I want a dragon with character (like in Dragonheart) and/or can stand on its own. And if it's nasty, I want it to hold up as a metaphor - such as Smaug in the Hobbit, or the Dragonking in Guards Guards. And I like writers that play around with the idea of dragons - I'm definitely going to read the Dragonrider book because of the comment and description above - breath with healing power is right up my street!

Guards! Guards! The Hobbit

Haha :). Dragon Rider is a great book, but it is really for younger kids ... I think. I read it when I was younger and I loved it, but it had lost its excitement when a re-read it recently. Worth reading, though, just keep it in mind ... if you want to, read the discussion topics on it first :)

This thread has been successful!

Alexis wrote: "Aside from the talking rats and the overbearing coincidences, I did like Dragon Rider. It was charming, unlike so many cheesy kid's books nowadays.

And as I said in another thread, I love dragons ..."

Yeah ... but I guess that's the thing with fantastical creatures - if there can be a giant flying lizard, why can't it talk, and think, and be ridden? If it can breathe fire, why can't it drink moonlight, or have straight horns ... ? If you think about it too much, everything is impossible xD. That's the beauty of imagination, I think. But I agree about making them reasonably realistic :).
And feel free! I suggested this topic for exactly that reason - to voice our own oppinions xD. C:

ງດໂາຊກກຊ wrote: "Alexis wrote: "Aside from the talking rats and the overbearing coincidences, I did like Dragon Rider. It was charming, unlike so many cheesy kid's books nowadays.

And as I said in another thread, ..."

IKR?! The beauty of imagination that it has no limit:D

Yep ^_^

ງດໂາຊກກຊ wrote: "Alexis wrote: "Aside from the talking rats and the overbearing coincidences, I did like Dragon Rider. It was charming, unlike so many cheesy kid's books nowadays.

And as I said in another thread, ..."

Well said!

Alexis wrote: "Haha, imagination is probably the coolest thing ever. I mean, look at all it's given us--dragons, mermaids, unicorns, pegasi, griffins, faeries, phoenixes...even, outside of fantasy, all sorts of c..."

Ya!!!!

As far as dragons can go I can accept a lot. But like sparkling vampires, I can't accept shape-shifting dragons very well at all. The reason being it that if you are going to make a dragon, make a dragon, not dragon that you want to to somehow relate better to humans by making them human. Dragons aren't human and they should probably never be. It takes away from their dragoness. Not to mention that most of them that do that are trying to incorporate a romance between a dragon and human; which doesn't freak me out in the slightest, I actually find that kind of exciting. But when you bring them down to humanity for the sake of the couple I can't stand it. For once I wish that if there is a dragon romance keep one a dragon (or any other other creature) and the other human. They don't have to be sexual partners to love each other. One good example of this, even though there are no dragon main characters is Through Wolf's Eyes. There is real love between the wolf and the human and there is is even talk of one changing for the other, but they don't and this doesn't diminish the love between them but make it all the more beautiful. The only good exception I can think of right now (as far as dragons go) is Song in the Silence because even though the dragon turned into a human briefly he was still fundamentally a dragon.
This also relates to my anger at how humans can shape-shift to other animals but you almost never hear of a animal transforming into a human.
Anyway, the point is; if you are going to have a mythical creature as a character than stick with that species, otherwise make your own. The Cloud Roads does a good job of making something all its own and doesn't clash with any of my other conceptions about myth.

Alexis wrote: "Haha, imagination is probably the coolest thing ever. I mean, look at all it's given us--dragons, mermaids, unicorns, pegasi, griffins, faeries, phoenixes...even, outside of fantasy, all sorts of c..."

That's the whole truth^-^

Cole wrote: "As far as dragons can go I can accept a lot. But like sparkling vampires, I can't accept shape-shifting dragons very well at all. The reason being it that if you are going to make a dragon, make a ..."

True.

Althea *Go wolves/dragons and Percabeth* wrote: "Cole wrote: "As far as dragons can go I can accept a lot. But like sparkling vampires, I can't accept shape-shifting dragons very well at all. The reason being it that if you are going to make a dr..."

:)
Dragon's Ring is another good example.

Cole wrote: "As far as dragons can go I can accept a lot. But like sparkling vampires, I can't accept shape-shifting dragons very well at all. The reason being it that if you are going to make a dragon, make a dragon, not dragon that you want to to somehow relate better to humans by making them human. Dragons aren't human and they should probably never be."

Damn~! Then you're probably going to hate Dragons and Cicadas, lol (the Karrucci dragons can take a human form, and there are two love short-stories centered on that). Now I feel awful~! Time to go revamp some parts of Ashuton's life :(

God, I feel awful :/
Does making them shifters really make them more human?

To answer thy questions:

1) Do you think dragons are like animals, or intelligent beings?

All of it.


2) Mindspeakers, or English speaking dragons?

All of it.

3) Do they mind being ridden?

Hell no. They hate being ridden.

4) Do they bond to specific people?

They get along with people that like them. Lord have mercy on those that hate them.

5) Are they carnivores - or do they get their energy from moonlight?

Receptors on the scales might be one way of them getting energy, but they need food like everything else unless they live in the vacumn of space. In that case, they EAT STARDUST, DUDE!

My two cents :)

L'Poni wrote: "Cole wrote: "As far as dragons can go I can accept a lot. But like sparkling vampires, I can't accept shape-shifting dragons very well at all. The reason being it that if you are going to make a dr..."

Hey, hey. Don't feel bad and certainly don't go changing your stories!!! I wasn't trying to imply that I hate all shapeshifting dragon characters, I was just saying that I ussaully don't because they are so hard in my opinion to make right. That is not to say that I won't like yours, I have likde some in the past. And just because a author wrote something I don't agree with doesn't take away from the enjoyment of the entire story or the characters. Also, I am a big fan of first encounter tales (aliens encountered for the first time for example) and inter species mixing (love stories of different species) [is there any of this?]. So yes, I still want to read you stories. I am sure that I will love them regardless of shapeshifting. And if there is anything I don't like I will tell you (nicely) so that you have some input to do with what you will.

L'Poni wrote: "To answer thy questions:

1) Do you think dragons are like animals, or intelligent beings?

All of it.


2) Mindspeakers, or English speaking dragons?

All of it.

3) Do they mind being ridden?
..."

I prefer the intellegent dragons
As for riding, if there is any, I like it when a dragon is selective about this. Giving the privlege some weight and value. And I think it should be a conscious choice, not the destiny stuff.
I personally like the mind speakers but the speaking ones make more sense if you don't have magic in your realm.
This is one of my favorite parts of reading. The "Bond," or the friendship. I love to see these. Who wouldn't be excited to be Partners with a dragon, to have one as you very best friend, to be soul mates (either romantically or not). I live for these momnets of tender affection and compasion probably because I envy it so much! Heheh!
How they get there energy? I think that is entirely dependant on if the come from space or are a magic phenomanon or just regular creatures like you and I. The reason being is because were ever they are from will dictate how they get substanence. If it was up to me the more creatively realistic the better.

Cole wrote: "L'Poni wrote: "Cole wrote: "As far as dragons can go I can accept a lot. But like sparkling vampires, I can't accept shape-shifting dragons very well at all. The reason being it that if you are goi..."

That is refreshing to know. For a while I was feeling blue, glum and sad. (I became super sensitive about the dragons after the event that happened long ago.)

Cole wrote: "L'Poni wrote: "To answer thy questions:

1) Do you think dragons are like animals, or intelligent beings?

All of it.


2) Mindspeakers, or English speaking dragons?

All of it.

3) Do they mind ..."

I never thought about dragons being selective about being ridden. Personally dragon riding is something I heavily disapprove of (I don't know why).

Friendship is magic~! (As Dr. King Schultz would say, "I couldn't resist.")

L'Poni wrote: "Cole wrote: "L'Poni wrote: "Cole wrote: "As far as dragons can go I can accept a lot. But like sparkling vampires, I can't accept shape-shifting dragons very well at all. The reason being it that i..."

What event?
Is it a dignity thing? The dragon riding.
:) Friendship is magic, espessial in this context.

Cole wrote: "L'Poni wrote: "Cole wrote: "L'Poni wrote: "Cole wrote: "As far as dragons can go I can accept a lot. But like sparkling vampires, I can't accept shape-shifting dragons very well at all. The reason ..."

Something happened that I like to call "The Event." Months ago a dragon fan said a few things about my dragons that made me upset. I've since gotten over it but it made me defensive about promoting my books to dragon fans, but I'm glad to know everyone here accepts all kinds of dragons.

I don't think its a dignity thing. To me dragon riding makes the dragon seem like a horse.

So it is a dignity thing, they don't want to ne ridden because they think it is demeaning.
I see... well I know how that feels. Every author, artist, or all of the above has. And it feels like crap! But we have accept that not everybody is going to like our work and even a few who hate it. Sorry that happened to you. Must have been serious for you to name the event Event?

Cole wrote: "So it is a dignity thing, they don't want to ne ridden because they think it is demeaning.
I see... well I know how that feels. Every author, artist, or all of the above has. And it feels like crap..."

It was serious (at the time) because the dragons are my babies (and wouldn't it hurt if someone told you something critical about something you worked on since childhood?). However it made me take a second look at my dragons and it caused me to rewrite War of the Space Dragons (the first collection of stories inside Dragons & Cicadas). I guess it was a good thing because it helped me broaden myself 20% (I was at 80) when it came to writing good and bad dragons, but it still puts a bad feeling in my tummy. However without critisism there would be no art. Its a double standard. Things happen for a reason and if the Event never happened, there would be no Seed Towers (and no Dragon Spire).

I joined this group some time ago, but haven't been active (for many reasons) until today.

L'Poni, I'm sorry someone treated you so badly. Fans can get a bit protective of their myths. For example, me. I love vampires, and can't stand the kind that are in Twilight. However, that said, I would never, ever go up to Stephanie Meyer and tell her off because her vampires don't happen to sit well with me. I actually liked most of her world-building when it came to the creatures in Twilight.

Point is, you can disagree and not be mean. I'm sorry someone was mean to you. It shouldn't happen.

As for the topic...even though they aren't human, I feel it's kind of like asking, "What is a human like?" That said, I'll put down what I personally like.

Do you think dragons are like animals, or intelligent beings?

Intelligent. Frighteningly so, at times. I also like it when they're a bit arrogant in their intelligence, and I don't mind it when they're so arrogant that they miss something crucial.

Mindspeakers, or English speaking dragons?

English, though I don't mind mindspeakers if it's done intelligently. (I also like the idea of dragons speaking multiple languages, of all kinds, fluently.)

Do they mind being ridden?

I like the idea of dragons minding if they don't have a choice. I also like the idea of dragons carrying a human, for whatever reason the dragon might have.

Do they bond to specific people?

I never really liked the idea of bonding, though I'm okay with a "pull" of sorts, based on magic or something halfway sciency. But the idea of bonding is a bit too permanent for my tastes. I like the idea that dragons can break away from a creature and that the creature can break away from the dragon. Otherwise, it feels too much like slavery.

Are they carnivores - or do they get their energy from moonlight?

I do not care. The dragons I created are vegetarian, but their diet changes depending on the shape they've chosen (yes, they're shapeshifters). However, I'm perfectly willing to read about carnivores, or rock-eaters, or some other thing. Food just isn't that high on my "must have" list.

Moonlight...I like that idea.

L'Poni wrote: "Cole wrote: "So it is a dignity thing, they don't want to ne ridden because they think it is demeaning.
I see... well I know how that feels. Every author, artist, or all of the above has. And it fe..."

Well glad you came out better for it!

Amy wrote: "I joined this group some time ago, but haven't been active (for many reasons) until today.

L'Poni, I'm sorry someone treated you so badly. Fans can get a bit protective of their myths. For example..."

I just got to say that I love you mind set on dragons!
I love that you mentioned arrogance. That you want the to speak many languages. I like the conflict that you implied about a dragon being forced to be ridden. And I like that you have the dragons make a consciuos dicision to leave a relationship making that relationship worth so much more.
Vegetarian huh? I have only read about one other.

Hi, I'm new to the group. I go by C.A. Rose. Interesting thread. I love how in Robin Hobb's, Rai Wilds Chronicles, the dragons are born deformed and have to develop their bodies and their abilities. It's much more interesting than just the big fire-breathing lizards. So my vote is for intelligent and able to communicate with humans in some fashion either words or mindspeak works for me.

C.A. wrote: "Hi, I'm new to the group. I go by C.A. Rose. Interesting thread. I love how in Robin Hobb's, Rai Wilds Chronicles, the dragons are born deformed and have to develop their bodies and their abilities..."

I love that series my self!!! Great dragon charcacters, great characters in general! Robin Hobb does a a fabulous job on character growth. The way she makes you love the character by not always agree with them. They are more real than people I have met in real life!! Hahaha!
By the way, I have a group called "Who Wants To Be A Bibliophile" and some of us are reading the 4th book together, you are welcome to join!

At Barnes and Noble last night, I checked on it, and they only had it in hard copy. I'll see if I can get it through my Nook this weekend. Thanks for the invite.

I'm currently finishing Mistress of Dragons by Margaret Weis copyright 2003. I like her idea that there are "Walkers", dragons who live in human form and keep track of us lowly, inferior, life forms.

I read that as well, good book! But I didn't finish the series.

L'Poni wrote: God, I feel awful :/
Does making them shifters really make them more human? "

Don't feel awful. Fantasy exists to challenge the ways we view the world. At one point unicorns had the tail of a lion and the beard of a goat and, in some versions, the feet of an elephant! Now we generally think of it as a sleek white pony with a horn only able to be tamed by virgins (the unicorn, that is, not the horn). And we nearly always think of it as good.

And making any creature a shape shifter doesn't necessarily mean it will become more human (if it shifts to human), it just depends what the writer does with it.

C.A., thank you for mentioning that.

I tried reading that book and couldn't get past the first page. Don't know why.

What makes me wish I had now is that my shapeshifter dragons in my book, Shining Armor, are called Observers and their whole society is based on their belief that they're supposed to observe and catalog the whole universe. They can be in any form, not just human, and study more than just humans. Also, hers is epic fantasy (IIRC) and mine is contemporary fantasy/sweet paranormal romance, but still.

I'll go by the library today and see how close the concepts are. *sigh*

(And I've even sold a few copies through Kindle and got a five star review, too. :/)

Emma is right. Fantasy is there for the sole purpose of imagination, to challenge our perspectives. This goes for dragons as well, which a falsely changing species in the genre.
All I was saying, not discourage anyone else at all, but that I just don't personally like shapeshifting dragons much. I find them hard to believe and not very realized characters. Not because they can't be, because I have read a couple that are, but becuase they are so hard to write on. They are not difinitive and this could lead to a very confusing character. For example, with what do they assoiciate them selves? Does anyone know what I mean?
I try to keep an open mind about all dragons though.

Amy wrote: "C.A., thank you for mentioning that.

I tried reading that book and couldn't get past the first page. Don't know why.

What makes me wish I had now is that my shapeshifter dragons in my book, Shin..."

Observe and catalogue? That sounds a lot like the Draconizicans (my space dragons) and the Forerunners (aliens from Halo). We should collaborate, mash our universes together and synchronize our hearts~! I'm serious. Our dragons could get together and synchronize their hearts, too!

Emma wrote: "L'Poni wrote: God, I feel awful :/
Does making them shifters really make them more human? "

Don't feel awful. Fantasy exists to challenge the ways we view the world. At one point unicorns had the ..."

Thank you for the kind words.
I didn't know unicorns used to look like monsters.

Amy wrote: "C.A., thank you for mentioning that.

I tried reading that book and couldn't get past the first page. Don't know why.

What makes me wish I had now is that my shapeshifter dragons in my book, Shin..."

Shining Armor? I must ask, do you know of Princess Miamore Cadenza?

Emma wrote: "L'Poni wrote: God, I feel awful :/
Does making them shifters really make them more human? "

Don't feel awful. Fantasy exists to challenge the ways we view the world. At one point unicorns had the ..."

Being a fantasy geek, I'm ready to embrace most shape-shifting. However, I have friends of the science fiction mind set, who get very irritated with the idea, saying that the mass of the two bodies must be equal for shape-shifting. Groan! Way to take the fun out.

L'Poni wrote: "Amy wrote: "C.A., thank you for mentioning that.

I tried reading that book and couldn't get past the first page. Don't know why.

What makes me wish I had now is that my shapeshifter dragons in m..."

I was thinking of the same reference myself...

@Cole and L'Poni:

Yes, I know the reference. :/ I found it out after I'd decided on the title.

I kept it because there are no horse-like creatures in my story. Just a bunch of dragons and a manticore. (And none of my dragons are named Spike. ;))

Amy wrote: "@Cole and L'Poni:

Yes, I know the reference. :/ I found it out after I'd decided on the title.

I kept it because there are no horse-like creatures in my story. Just a bunch of dragons and a manti..."

Awesome~! Another ponyfriend!

Do you like the collaboration idea? I think we should (and will) collaborate~!

Cole wrote: "As far as dragons can go I can accept a lot. But like sparkling vampires, I can't accept shape-shifting dragons very well at all. The reason being it that if you are going to make a dragon, make a ..."

Hi Cole, Sorry I'm new hear so I'm answering to new comments. A very awesome site of dragons are called Drakonica, I think. I've used most that as my starting point of dragons. There has been said that dragons did own a human form, to blend in, I guess. They are also very smart and has taught the first person to speak. You should check that out and not rule out the dragon shape shifting thing as it is part of some dragons. As a dragon writer, there are so many dragon fans out there and we all try to stay true to some of the facts and not to change it in a way that you won't get the fans disappointed. I myself love dragons, didn't like the shape shifting thing until I did a bit of research, very interesting stuff popped up.

My dragons shift shape. I can understand why that does not work for some folks.

I realize that most of this discussion was months ago, but I just wanted to say that I like all kinds of dragons and dragon stories. I like the intelligent, bonding dragons in McCaffrey's Pern novels; I liked the animal only evil wyverns and dragons in A Natural History of Dragons: A Memoir by Lady Trent and Dragon Run. I love the extra-terrestrial symbiont dragon in Timothy Zahn's Dragonback series. And I loved the crossbreeding idea in Seraphina where dragons and humans have interbred. So I read all kinds of dragon books and love all kinds of dragon books.

You have read a lot more different types of dragon books then I have. I will need to check them out sometime.

I'm reading a book I'm enjoying: "Dragon Rigger" by Jeffery A. Carver. It is in the POV of the dragons as they try to save their realm with the help of a human of prophesy. The underrealm of magic and sorcery manipulated by the Evil One and heroric dragon brothers is very imaginative.

I've read a few books regarding dragons. Dragonlance Chronicles Trilogy, Dragon Rider, Dragonlance Twins [Book 1], Rain Wild Chronicles [Book 1], and Natural History of Dragons: A Memoir by Lady Trent. I wonder if there are any more I've read besides these.

Besides reading, I've written flash fiction on dragons which are available on my blog site.

My vision of dragons create a threatening look from the outside, but may have a good/evil side. Depending how dragons lived their lives, their characters develop, shifting them to create a weight on either the bright or dark sides. Most dragons, I feel exist in the real world in the physical forms of either the dominant species, or any of the other creatures. Their lives work through span of ages, which last for anywhere between a handful of years to ages or eons.

There exist good and bad dragons, depending on where they balance themselves. Also, there would be clans of dragons dominating territories in different places. Whether they exist in such forms, I do not know. But such behaviours can be observed in most places around the world.

I believe dragons have kept themselves under low profile due to the threat they have encountered, not only from humans, but from other creatures and beasts. There is also the possibility, that for man to be chosen for a particular destiny, the dragons and beasts have ceased over their violence among themselves. However, both the dragons and beasts exists in either human or other physical form around the world.