2013 Worlds Without End Women of Genre Fiction Reading Challenge discussion

I for one can never resist the opportunity to recommend obscure female fantasy authors to people! (I'm going to assume you've all heard of the likes of Susanna Clarke, Robin Hobb, and Robin McKinley, and move on to underrated authors.) All series are finished unless otherwise noted.

Sarah Micklem: Firethorn is one of the most underrated and yet brilliant books I know of. Very gritty, feminist fantasy in a complex and detailed world, and so well-written I've gotten literary snobs hooked. Possible downside: no publication date yet for the 3rd book in the trilogy.

Catherynne Valente: The Orphan's Tales (a duology beginning with In the Night Garden) is a fantastic nesting doll of a book--stories within stories within stories. Deathless is a great retelling of a Russian fairy tale. Excellent, rather ornate writing.

Kij Johnson: Fudoki is a great, somewhat quiet historical fantasy set in 12th century Japan, starring a noblewoman and a cat woman! The Fox Woman is a retelling of a Japanese fairy tale.

Juliet Marillier: The Sevenwaters Trilogy is about as good as it gets with fairy tale retellings--start with Daughter of the Forest. Historical fantasy set in ancient Ireland, with some great romance (guys shouldn't be scared off the first book though, as the romance is fairly minor). Each book is standalone and has its own protagonists.

Alma Alexander: The Secrets of Jin-Shei is a great historical fantasy about a group of women in an alternate medieval China. The Embers of Heaven is an equally awesome historical fantasy about a girl living through the Cultural Revolution.

Jo Walton: Okay, maybe less obscure now she's written Among Others, but my favorite of hers so far is Tooth and Claw--a 19th-century-style family drama in which all the characters are dragons.

Kit Whitfield: Benighted is a fantastic, dark literary-type urban fantasy in an alternate earth where 99% of the population are werewolves.

Kate Elliott: The Crossroads trilogy (starts with Spirit Gate) is great if you like Big Fat Epic Fantasy: complex Asian-inspired worldbuilding and a unique take on some old genre tropes. Beware a very slow start, however. The Spiritwalker trilogy (starts with Cold Magic; last book due out in June) is a fun first-peron alternate-Earth ice-age steampunk romp with romance and revolution.

Ellen Kushner: The Privilege of the Sword is a very fun and clever fantasy of manners in a magic-less secondary world.

Okay.... somebody else's turn!

I just built half of a 2000 piece lego and my fingers hurt, so, in short, Katherine Kerr is brilliant.

Wow, I got 10 already just by going through my TBR pile. I'd have 11 is Wolf Hall counted as Genre. :P How does the random thing work? Do you have to do it yourself?

Also Naomi Novik rocks, seriosly if you havn't read those, what the hell, do it.

And Firethorn, but uh I think everyone here so far has read it or were the ones that made me read it.

While I'm ranting, I guess K.J Parker doesn't count because NO ONE KNOWS.

I didn't know KV Johanasan(I'm spelling that wrong) was female. The more you know.

Grack, Hilary Mantel is on the list, so Wolf Hall counts ;)

Recommendations:
-heartily second Catherynne Valente.
-for good vampire urban fantasy: Tanya Huff
-for lots of swearing, crossdressing, history and sarcasm: Mary Gentle
-for poetic fantasy: Elizabeth Bear
-for funny fantasy: Kage Baker
-for awesome character building: CS Friedman (Magister trilogy)

I'd second Jo Walton. She's canny and kind and I'm two days into Among Others and spellbound.

I stumbled into Kage Baker at Sky Coyote and began an on again off again affair with the Company series. I can't get some of that novel out of my head and I heartily recommend it.

I have no idea how popular Pat Cadigan is in the broader world. Probably not so much as a lot is out of print. Gollancz released most of it for Kindle a couple Christmases ago. Synners had a totally eighties cover that pushed me away for years. When I finally read it I slapped myself. Utterly personal, reflective cyberpunk. It's a niche genre, but she's unparalleled. Mindplayers and Fools are shorter together and both fascinating.

I'm glad Wolf Hall counts as it's been edging closer to the top of my TBR pile recently. Ditto Susannah Clarke. :)

As for recs - try Elizabeth Hand. She has a couple of nice collections of short stories as well as novels. I have a soft spot for her debut novel, Winterlong, a stylish post-apoc novel featuring weird neuro-experiments - kind of a mix of fantasy and scifi, really.

If you like fairy tales: Jane Yolen, Tanith Lee and Patricia McKillip are 'easy' options in this challenge. Also, Diana Wynne Jones.

I would like to NOT recommend Diana Gabaldon right now as hard as I can. NO. BAD.

I'll second Cathyrenne Valente and Kij Johnson. Both are quite good. I noticed a few people mention Kameron Hurley, Leigh Bardugo, and Lauren Beukes in the Challenge List thread and they are definitely worth it as well.

A few recs:
Obsidian and Blood by Aliette de Bodard. It's a fantasy series set during the Aztecs circa 1480. First book is basically a murder mystery and is the weakest. Next two books are better and have a more fantastical bent to them.

I recently finished Alif the Unseen by G. Willow Wilson. It's kind of a cross-genre book with hackers and djinn in a Middle East city. Very, very good.

Lindsey Davis writes a great historical mystery series set in ancient Rome. There's twenty books in the series that starts with The Silver Pigs.

Might have more later.

I have both Obsidian and Blood and Alif the Unseen sitting around, but Wilson and Bodard are among the authors not in the WWE database. Others I wanted to include for my challenge but couldn't include Jaclyn Dolamore, Erin Bow, Jane Lindskold, and Carol Berg. Authors that I would recommend but aren't listed in the database include Diana Peterfreund, Michelle Sagara West, Elizabeth Wein, Megan Whalen Turner, Rebecca Stead, Sherwood Smith, Jennifer Fallon, Sarah Monette, and Pamela Dean. (And while I wouldn't exactly recommend Mercedes Lackey to anyone over twelve, her absence, given her prominence in the genre, is bizarre.)

I wonder what their selection criteria is? Guess I need to figure out how to get people added.

I'll second (third? Whatever?) Kameron Hurley, Sarah Micklem and Jo Walton.

I think Zoo City is worth a read even if you're not into mysteries. It's more of a 'what's going on' than a 'who-dun-it' type mystery, and the main (and very considerable) strength of the plot is in the worldbuilding and characterization anyway.

I'll add Kate Griffin and Genevieve Valentine for authors I wish more people were reading (who are women.)

Grack21 wrote: "While I'm ranting, I guess K.J Parker doesn't count because NO ONE KNOWS."


Well, that, and from what I've read thus far (and heard from others) her books are pretty misogynist. Which, paradoxically, is why I'm pretty sure she is a woman (or at least was one initially), because a misogynist guy pretending to be a woman while writing dark fantasy in the 1990s makes zero sense. Not that books need to be pro-woman or even have female characters to technically work for the challenge, but it seems rather against the spirit of the thing.

--

Okay, on a more positive note: I forgot to mention When She Woke by Hillary Jordan--a super fun dystopian book (for adults!).

Eh, really? I haven't read her first two trilogies(yet) but I never noticed any blatant misogynist stuff. Generally EVERYONE in her books are jerks.

Now, a certain Anne Bishop I could go on about(and have) for days and days....

Also, while I'm ranting again, they have Outlander on there for f---s sake, so I doubt misogyny has anything to do with it.

Basically what Grack said; Parker writes everyone that way, not just the women. I hate to put words in Parker's mouth, but I think she's trying to make a point about the depiction of women in fantasy, and by extension the authors that write them that way, as well as the differences in how female and male characters are perceived.

Oh well, I don't want to get bogged down in a debate about Parker on this thread (especially since I've only read a couple of her books) but in the two that I've read, female characters are either a) nonexistent or b) there only as plot devices to motivate male characters. The most significant Parker female I've encountered so far existed solely to be stuffed in the fridge in a particularly horrifying way. Hopefully the women in The Folding Knife will be better, as I do plan to read that one this year. (But, I probably would have read it 2 years ago, when I bought it, had the treatment of women in The Hammer not been so disturbing.)

In any case, even regardless of Parker's attitude toward women, it just doesn't make any sense to me that a man would pretend to be a woman while writing in a genre so hostile to female writers (especially in the 90s) that a lot of the women try to fool readers into thinking they're men, and some of the ones who don't, regret it. (Kate Elliott had a blog post at one point about how, if she were to do it over again, she'd write her epic fantasy under a male or gender-neutral pseudonym. I can't find it now though.)

In any case, doing a women-writers challenge and reading misogynist stuff makes about as much sense as doing an around-the-world challenge and reading all books by Americans about Americans who just happen to be in foreign countries. What would be the point?

Yeah, women in Parker's stand alones, when I think about it, not so good. The Folding Knife and The Hammer in particular. Sharps however actually has a good female character in it. Heck it has some good characters. Very opoosite The Hammer. Man, the people in that book.

Now I'm thinking about The Hammer again! That one really shook me up.

But like I said, there are much worse things in that database. And some weir omissions.

Yeah, The Hammer was really good, but also really disturbing. And I'm not easily disturbed. (Easily annoyed perhaps!)

I think they're taking suggestions for the database though? It doesn't surprise me that it's got some gaps--once people start listing authors, you realize that there are tons of them, especially with the broad definition of genre that WWE apparently uses. (I mean, Toni Morrison? Sure, Beloved comes back from the dead and all, but it's probably not a book anyone reads looking for fantasy.) I still sometimes randomly find a book at the library by someone I've never heard of, only to discover that they've apparently been established for decades--Ellen Kushner being a prime example just last year.

Anyone read both Hundred Thousand Kingdoms and Killing Moon by Jemisen? I can't decide which to read!

Alas, no. I;ve only read Hundred Thousand Kingdoms, which is really good, despite what certain male members of a certain forum have to say. >.>

On the subject of K.J. Parker's gender, I note Subterranean magazine just announced that its issues later this year will include "another of her fine essays on historical warfare".

I don't think most people doubt that she is a she at this point, but there's always some asshole that thinks women can't write realistic fantasy.

Has anyone read Splintered? I've seen this thing EVERYWHERE. It doesn't look like something I'd like (YA romance where the fantasy part is really just a device), but I'm having a hard time getting away from the many positive reviews.

I think I'd read it if someone I trusted recommended it to me.

I read the 100k Kingdoms when it came out and was frankly underwhelmed. It wasn't bad - it just didn't grab me. I didn't bother picking up the other 2 books in it.

I'm currently about half way through the Killing Moon and really enjoying it. It's very immersive. I have a sense of the culture and its mores. It doesn't count for me in the challenge as I'd read the 100k Kingdoms, but I'm pretty sure I'll be picking up the second book fairly sharpish.

Thoroughly recommend "The Killing Moon". Brilliant world building, theology, relationships and a study of addiction and morality. Though part of a duology I think it could be read as a standalone. Good stuff.