Joe Abercrombie Fans discussion

My friend and I have read all of the Abercrombie books and both just finished Red Country. It was great to see all the old characters even if their names were changed to protect the innocent. Carlot as the Mayor and naming Logan 'Lamb' were nice touches for those familiar with the back story.

I came to a conclusion about Curnsbick that my friend did not and was wondering if anyone else thought this as well. I felt that Curnsbick was actually Bayaz. Here are the reasons that I think that.

1) It seemed to go along with the "hiding" characters in plain sight and he is mainly missing until later in Crease.

2) He is the "inventor" of a portable forge during a time that wouldn't have been a common technology. He was "testing" his firing tubes (canons) in The Hereos not that long before.

3) At the end of the book before everyone leaves Crease, he buys up real estate and expands his business with the forge and at the same time a branch of Valint and Balk opens up next door.

What do you guys think?

Rosco wrote: "My friend and I have read all of the Abercrombie books and both just finished Red Country. It was great to see all the old characters even if their names were changed to protect the innocent. Carlo..."

Now that is a delicious morsel for thinking on! Intriguing!

That's an interesting thought, however I think Bayaz would probably not get involved at such a "day to day" level as inventing something or tending to a business. The cannon tests make sense as you mention but still I think it's not Bayaz.

For me Bayaz is a very high level player, an architect of sorts - gets involved when it's really necessary (as in the First Law trilogy) but otherwise just pushes the pieces around on a chessboard from afar.

These are some very good points, and after reading them it seems obvious that it could be Bayaz.

There is no doubt that he operates through Valint and Balk, and it is a very great coincidence they happen to establish a branch at the same time.

The portable forge would fit as a development from his cannon testing in the Heroes ... but what would Bayaz be doing in the far country?? If he's there, there would have to be a really good reason ... maybe he's keeping an eye on Logen,who can talk to spirits dont forget. Protecting him from Caul Shivers indirectly? Who knows. He's a crafty magician that Bayaz.

When I read about Valint and Balk opening a branch in Crease I thought it was a hint at the fact that Bayaz now has eyes and ears there as there possibly could be some stuff going on with regards to the overall "urban" development of the region and maybe the ongoing border disputes nearby.

Oh, and also - wouldn't Logen be able to identify Curnsbick as Bayaz? They spent a lot of time together after all and I don't remember any mention of Bayaz being able to shape/body shift.

I finished the book a couple weeks ago my memory is a bit hazy - I thought Curnsbick wasnt travelling with the fellowship though?

He was the business partner of Dab Sweet - with whom he was planning to meet with. Did Logen/Lamb come into contact with him?

By the way, I thought it was awesome how Abercrombie bought Glama Golden down in Red Country - with a touch of humility about him no less. What a grisly end he met with Ninefingers.

Dab Sweet was the navigator, Curnsbick was in business with the other guy (I forget his name).

In any case by spending a lot of time together I meant Logen with Bayaz (in First Law trilogy) so Logen would know for surehow Bayaz looks.

Whether Logen met Curnsbick I'm not sure but I think they must have met at some point in Crease when Temple was building the headquarters for the business (even though I can't recall any interaction between Logen and Curnsbick...).

Interesting thought, But If he is Bayaz I think Logan would have recognized him (unless Bayaz can change his appearance) and I don't think Bayaz would stand by and watch as the Empire took control of a very profitable area. It's a very good idea but I just don't think so.

The fact that Logan would have recoqnized Bayaz settles the discussion, even though for a moment I thought you might be right.

I also agree with Pawel that Bayaz wouldn't get so close to the playground, but rather steer from afar. It's probably clear that Curnsbrick is in the spheres of Valint & Balk (what merchant isn't?) but wether he consiously works for Bayaz is unclear.

Also, Red Country is quite a change from earlier books: for once, neither Bank nor Prophet won, but the empire came out on top! Sure, in Best Served Cold, Monza also chose to not align herself with either bank or prophet, but we saw that she was not allowed to sit that out, as she was immedeately attacked by the Union.

We have simply GOT TO have Murcatto back in the trilogy Joes planning to bring out :)

I agree Red Country was another refreshing step in a new direction.

What was your favourite scene/scenes?

For me, it HAS to be the showdown with Waerdinur on the bridge ... That has to be one of my favourite moments in all of Abercrombie's books. Awesome.

I liked the battle in the arena as well. It was pleasantly suprised that he made Glama golden so likeable. You would almost root for the dude to win.

I liked Murcatta as well. But if Logan and Glokta are back i am already satisfied. A return of Fero would be nice as well.

Plus our dear old mercenary friend really should get another stab at redemption.

As for the Bayaz theory. I think it is wonderfully inventive. But i am not sure it would fit his profile (he is not really like Kruppe from Malazan book of the fallen for example). Then again one never knows.