Existentialist Fiction discussion

recommend a book that makes sense.

http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/12...

we don't need to be really picky on the genre, but I'd say any existentialist kind that challenges your thoughts.

he Guardian, Monday 19 January 2009 19.01 EST
André Gide: The Vatican Cellars (1914)
Albert Camus: The Outsider (1942)
Robert Musil: The Man Without Qualities (1930-32)
JD Salinger: The Catcher in the Rye (1951)

How to live? How to reach meaning with God in decline and the singularity of individual consciousness on the rise? These have never been questions defined by the shapeliness or wholeness of their answers; their very urgency has tended to provoke a response of fragments. But, occasionally, what beautiful fragments.

Jean-Paul Sartre is usually cited as begetter of the most complete existential answer, with Nausea (1938), but more than two decades earlier André Gide's The Vatican Cellars appalled critics with its supposedly amoral and nihilistic Romanian orphan hero, Lafcadio Wluiki, who, in the novel's most famous scene, throws a fellow passenger out of a train without motive. Superbly satisfying, mischief-making and funny, Gide's wonderfully controlled account of a young man who will commit any act to rid himself of the cliches of convention and family and his own past laid one of the first paths for other alienated heroes to follow.

Meursault, Albert Camus's "man without apparent conscience", is one. Meursault's first-person narrative in The Outsider is justly famous for its tragic tension between a man judged inhuman by society - he murders an Arab in momentary confusion, but is condemned more for failing to show grief at his mother's funeral - and one who, in his actions and utterances, is consistently honest. What is often overlooked is the rich, hot fabric of Camus's descriptions of the life of a profoundly sensual Frenchman, dominated by the sea and sun.

Lafcadio and Meursault play out their revolt against an all too solid background of convention. That may be the French way. The Austrian Robert Musil, in his encyclopedic - and highly readable, whatever the idle say - The Man Without Qualities replaces such certainties with a society of labyrinths that his hero Ulrich is badly placed to negotiate. It is 1913: a youngish scientist of independent means, a seducer unable to commit, someone who feels himself to have nothing so fixed as a core or character, collides with a world spinning on the brink of war and collapse. Three hundred years earlier Don Quixote had ridden out to find that the world didn't resemble what he had read about it in books; Musil succeeds in showing that the reality of the world in the 20th century was never what it pretended to be.

These nonconformists are, on the one hand, individual seekers, and on the other a kind of exceptionalist proof that our cherished singularity is also an illusion. We are bound, always, to the shape of our era. But the possibility of rebellion exists. The greatest of all the American existentialists remains JD Salinger's Holden Caulfield (and possibly Salinger himself, in his violent retreat from publicity). The secret of Holden's quest comes early on in The Catcher in the Rye, in an interview with Mr Spencer, his history teacher. "All of a sudden then, I wanted to get the hell out of the room. I could feel a terrific lecture coming on." He doesn't need a lecture; he needs to explain himself to himself far away from Pencey Prep. Still the novel's most savourable delight is not the story but the tone: restrainedly slangy, a very private voice of stoic comedy, as surprisingly fresh as ever. All four of these novels have that freshness; and any quest for meaning that stays fresh reminds us that some things need saying, again and again, whenever people stop listening.

• Julian Evans's biography of Norman Lewis, The Semi-Invisible Man, is published by Jonathan Cape

Thanks for the recommendations. Probably to your surprise, I have never read a single Hesse book. I still feel guilty of it, but I hope to change that soon. I like the story of Narcissus and Goldmund, it sounds like it is going to be a spectacular read. I added your recommendations to the group's bookshelf, along with Gary's suggestions. I've heard Robert Musil's Man's without qualities is a great and heavy read. which is good.

Andre Malraux, The Human Condition/Man's Fate, with the idea of people fighting to make sense, or to create a sense of their lives, by defiance, in a pretty absurd envinronment. The Revolution (is set on China, during a failed communist attempt to seize power) is like a new God for them, which fails. The imperial agent is also a rebel, an individualist who tried to inovate, was forced to go to China and as all characters, fails too. But in face of failure, some choose defiance and find a meaning. It was seen sometimes as a true story, then doubts showed up about what Malraux said or implied regarding his experience, which makes a good irony given the theme.

This is one of my favorite books: A Hero of our time by Mikhail Lermontov. It is very powerful. I wrote a tiny review on it, I am copying it here for you. I have already put it in the group's bookshelf and I strongly recommend it.

"This book is a comment on its own. It is the most honest philosophy of emotion. Above all, I consider it a concept of love that not many people are willing to admit. Because it is too real to stop being terrified by it. One of the most powerful scenes ever written are contained in this book, successfully depicting a man's desire for the love he was not aware he was chosen to deprive himself of. A life escaping from remorse hits back as the highest remorse there can be."

Two classic Existential plays:


No Exit
Waiting for Godot

Some of the books mentioned are on my list. I would recommend The Stranger by Albert Camus.

Speaking of Camus, I chose The Plague as my book choice for my Vancouver bookclub next month. Hope it's a good read.

One of you already recommended it but I must recommend Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger.

It's one of those books that must be read in its original language - that is English. It is marked by its New York setting, thus reading it in any other language would be a disaster.

It's about self-alienation and a simple coming-of-age story. I am currently re-reading it, and it's pretty great.

though i did not enjoy any of these, i think they belong here too. so:

* siddartha (hesse)
* homo faber (frisch)
* nothing (teller)
* perfume (süskind)

Not just Homo faber. I recommend any book that can be classified as philosophical anthropology. Many writers have written about Homo ludens. Also homo ridens, homo metaphysicus, h. viator and even h. sedens. All of these “definitions“ and the books written about them meet the mark for existentialist literature. Non-fiction in fact, but still good.

I loved No Exit! One of the best.

Jim wrote: "Two classic Existential plays:


No Exit
Waiting for Godot"

Clive wrote: "Hi Jo,

Why didn't you enjoy Siddartha? I ask because it's the only one of Hesse's books I didn't like."

hesse? trying too hard. like paulo coelho with alchemist, i guess. besides i'm wary of caucasians writing from the pov of a colored person. most of the time it pisses me off, even if it's written perfectly fine. maybe it's a dumb reason. but it's a reason. plus my lit teacher wanted us to read all these books (siddartha, homo faber, perfume) and back then i didn't like reading books. like at all. the appreciation blossomed later on. :>

Try Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. It is one of the finest books I have ever read.

The issue with Ayn Rand is that many find her outlook arrogant in the way she focuses only on an ultra-individualist, selfish philosophy called Objectivism, which was actually coined by her. In the Fountainhead, she talks about Howard Roark, a start up architect who is ready to sacrifice it all in order to make his statement his way, and to achieve what he deserves.

Whether you like her or not, her writing is fantastic, both the story and the depth behind it.

I've read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand and I really liked it. Although I didn't agree with her philosophy, I was amazed by her great writing style. The story was also interesting. I plan on reading The Fountainhead soon.

While not a fiction read, one of the classic texts of existentialism that I have read is Fear and Trembling by the Father of Existentialism. Ever wonder where we got the concept of taking a leap of faith from...or one of the earliest references to the word "existentialism" as a philosophical belief?

I am currently reading Death and the Dervish from Mesa Selimovic, a well-known Bosnian writer. I am almost done with it and I find it great. It is very well written (I am reading the Macedonian translation).
The story is about a Dervish (a religious direction in Islam whose followers lead a poor, ascetic life). He is in pursuit of finding his brother who has been locked away by the authorities. In that pursuit, he constantly debates with himself on the temptations that he sees, temptations that he deliberates in his thoughts, ultimately questioning the meaning of life. He, who is supposed to believe in it all, starts doubting everything. Don't we all at one point?

Not if we're René Descartes ;)

I'm sure he had his thoughtful moments too :)

He did but he stopped quite suddenly, the story is quite famous now.

and on to my to read shelf. thanks!

I've read part of it but I have procrastinating finishing it since I have been doing a lot of existentialist reads and have Kierkegaard on my main philosophy reading spot right now. Cogito Ergo Sum (I think)

Cool. So you are reading Kierkegaard. I have a few questions and doubts about him. I have honestly deferred reading any of his works indefinitely because I think he focuses a lot on religion. Is that right? I got his "Concept of Anxiety" thinking it was something other than the hereditary sin and Adam and Eve kind of stuff that put me off even to start reading it. Any insight very much appreciated.

Branko wrote: "I am currently reading Death and the Dervish from Mesa Selimovic, a well-known Bosnian writer. I am almost done with it and I find it great. It is very well written (I am reading the Macedonian tra..."

Well how strong is our belief if we believed without asking questioms? Since I am a muslim myself, A dervish is not a direction with followers, that is sufism. Dervish is the person who wonders around from place to another to seek answers about life and religion. Its seems like an insightful read although I gave up on reading about dervishes. Espicially the ones with mystical powers .

I am not saying that we should believe without asking questions. Not at all. In fact, I am always trying to challenge my thoughts even when there is absolutely no need for it. As for the explanation of what a Dervish is, you are right, but I guess to a person that does not know what it is, saying that it is sufism would not be clear either. In any case..I would really recommend this book. It is not at all about dervishes and their lives or powers. The person in the book happens to be a dervish but everything else that is happening in the book is not necessarily tied to his title. I don't like religious books (irrespective of which religion it is), and this one is definitely not one of them. If the title wasn't the way it is written I would name it Death and a man searching for meaning.

Branko wrote: "I am not saying that we should believe without asking questions. Not at all. In fact, I am always trying to challenge my thoughts even when there is absolutely no need for it. As for the explanatio..."

Yes a subject like that shouldnt be entitled to religon. Thats why I avoid reading about religous books too because it tends to be tied to it . I read a book called Forty Rules of Love about a dervish spreading his knowledge ( cant remember the plot) which bugged very much although it had great wisdom ( some of which I didnt get and thought that the writer is just showing off) but since it contains things against what I believe in I was repulsed by it even the though it has many provoking notions. I think its a big mistake for any writer to write an existentialist work of fiction from a religion point of view. I guess its called this way to make it more .. whimsical ? Your title would not work out by the way haha .. very much to the point. Its all about the title !

It has been on top of my "to-read" list for a long time. To the look of the synopsis, it sounds great.
Thanks for posting!

I include this for the sake of what some believe to be true...Kafka. If you were looking for this sort of suddenly displaced and uprooted existential fiction I'd prefer to recommend The Magus by Fowles and a lesser known authors The Society of Others. These only count if you like the sort of existentialism that comes slightly second to the fiction. Also The Myth of Sisyphus is an absolute must read. Don't neglect Dostoevsky either. Beyond that I'd say that Nietzsche is not nihilist but existentialist and a brilliant writer of philosophy.

Nietzsche is like Pink Floyd is to music. On top of it.

'The Dead Celebrity' by JP Sando. Seriously! http://amzn.to/12XECuB

Although it is definitely a hard read, and probably more nihilistic than existentialist, Friedrich Nietzsche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra is beautifully written.

“I am a forest, and a night of dark trees: but he who is not afraid of my darkness, will find banks full of roses under my cypresses.”