Classics for Beginners discussion

Seeing some authors that I think of in particular genres, like horror or sci-fi. Authors like H.P. Lovecraft and Edgar Allan Poe; Jules Verne and H.G. Wells; J.R.R. Tolkien.

Who are some authors (and their works) that you would categorize beyond just being classics?

Well there are obvious authors who are known as romance, the most predominant for me being Jane Austen.

All classics are in different genres. To me "Classics" is a "meta-genre." For instance the book I'm reading now, War and Peace. Realism? Historical Fiction? War novel?

Saying something is a "Classic," to me, just means that the novel has unique artistic value that bridges generations.

I think of romance, sci-fi, or fantasy as genres. I think of authors like Dickens and Balzac as being more general literature, but maybe you have a pigeon-hole for them too.

Pigeon-hole! Such a negative connotation to that!

Aren't all genres just social constructions anyway? Maybe they should only be arranged by date and geographic region (like the LCC call number system) instead of genres.

What makes something "General literature"?

Jason wrote: "What makes something "General literature"? "

Not sure, but those guys don't fit easily into another category. A couple of Dickens fit historical fiction because they were set prior to his contemporary time. Most were just "fiction" at the time, I believe.

Now we have something called contemporary fiction - again, books that don't fit easily into another category. How would you categorize those? (I didn't think of pigeon-hole as being negative, but rather slangish.)

I think that when you say a book is "literature" whether it is from the 18th or 21st century, that doesn't actually define a genre. I think a horror novel can be literature. Philip K. Dick was a writer of literature.

A lot of contemporary literature perhaps fits better in the Literary Realism genre?

Jason wrote: "A lot of contemporary literature perhaps fits better in the Literary Realism genre?"

Literary Realism is a good description. I think it might also fit those old fellows (and gals, as easily included would be George Eliot) I was calling general literature.

Some people think of literature as "serious" writing. Then I just think about all the poop and fart jokes in Ulysses by James Joyce.

I have two categories for my personal reading. Good books and bad books. It's a good system. :-)

Well, that's fine for you. I don't know about you, but I have a limited lifetime, so I won't be able to get to all of the books. Many people like to read certain types of books, and genres is helpful for them.

I meant good books and bad books as categories after I've read them, not before. I utilize genres in order to find what I want to read next.

And, yes, I am immortal.

I thought of another type of classic, that of detective fiction. Of course, Arthur Conan Doyle comes immediately to mind.

Well, there is a bit of cross over. I think that many wrote across genres because the lines were a lot more blurred then. I think almost every author back then dabbled in horror/gothic fiction to some degree. My interest as far as classics is genre fiction.

In short, I'd probably do something like this:

CS Lewis, Tolkien, George McDonald, Dunsany--Fantasy
HP Lovecraft, Poe, MR James--Horror
Wilkie Collins, Poe, RL Stevenson, Conan Doyle--Mystery, Thrillers
Dumas, RL Stevenson, Conan Doyle, Rice Burroughs-Adventure
Verne, HG Wells, Rice Burroughs-Science Fiction

Genres are structures we use to simply classify subjects. Generic structures exist in areas such as various 'genres' of department stores and brand types. However in books you have of course romance, sci-fi, fantasy, mystery etc.

I tend to see it as there being main genres within the classics and within books in general. Under those overall genres we get minor sub genres. For instance I see children's lit as being one genre with picture books, YA and middle grade being various sub genres under that. Then I see sci-fi as being a main genre with space opera, time travel and apocalyptic being some of the sub genres. Fantasy, romance, mystery, historical, plays, short stories, poetry are other main genres I can think of.

Genre is a really interesting look at this, if a touch academic.

The lines blur and mesh at times, making a work itself the best indicator of whether you'd like it or not, but certain correlations do hold. Major literary awards today tend to be trapped neatly within the broad 'genre' we might call realism, even to the point where fantastic elements used sparingly enough are subjected to the classification 'magical realism' and thus made ready for praise through the contemporary lens. More sustained fantasies and science fiction in particular, are much maligned in this way.

The actual relations between genres is far more complicated though, as might be expected. For instance, Poe was unmistakably a writer of fantasy and macabre mysteries, but his influence on the likes of Baudelaire, himself an important benefactor of early modernism via the decadent movement, casts doubts on the scope Poe intended and indeed achieved.

Some genres seem particularly artificial to me however. They seem to miss the point of attempting a light overlay of classification to help analyse structures and end up revelling in their generic qualities, becoming demographic-seekers rather than genres. An example would be the currently very popular 'young adult' classification, which shoulders its way in between children's and adult literature and perverts the scope of both, limiting the dynamics and interplay between them, while offering only formulaic works on its own after a handful of pioneering successes which aren't quite so clearly constrained in the genre they gave rise to if one were to think about it.
Authors like Stevenson, Twain and Kipling weren't trying to bridge a gap and shut that bridge off on either side (more the fault of Rand and Salinger), but writing without these trappings whilst unaware that readers would be subjected to them later on through marketing ploys focused on insecure parents with inclinations towards moral policing on one side, and baseless literary snobbery on the other- themselves thus moulded to become a generation who are able for the most part only to write overly didactic and constrained wish-fulfillment narratives.
Later successes so eagerly claimed by the genre's marketers like the Rowling's Harry Potter novels and Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy in fact are successful exactly because the authors didn't set out to write young adult stories just like those past authors who were without the name- and we come full circle with the whole genre an indulgent excess (in an objective sense, whereas context-begotten calls to excess by the decadents mentioned above for instance, was in its way crucial).

I think a great writer is oblivious to genres before they write; in fact, many are who created or 'discovered' the genre. Jules Verne would be a good example. I don't think he sat down and said, "I'm going to write some science fiction books!"

I think its the same when someone like Steinbeck wrote his novels that had the societal themes on America. At the time, I'm sure they were viewed much different than they are today. Many of us see them as literature about an 'historical era', but they weren't so much about history when they came out. So genres can change, but the quality writing contained in the book will remain top-notch; therefore it will always be considered a classic.
I am also very glad books are divided into many different genres. There are so many books out there, that I need the help to narrow down my choices.

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Jason wrote: "What makes something "General literature"? "

Not sure, but those guys don't fit easily into another category. A couple of Dickens fit historical fiction because they were set prior t..."

For general fiction like that I usually classify as drama. Seems to fit well enough to me

I hesitate to worry about genres. I find that some people refuse or denigrate genre fiction as not being real literature. That really upsets me. Mystery/crime fiction, science fiction/fantasy, romace are all perfectly respectable and can either be really bad or really good.