Horror Aficionados discussion

There's a lot of indie writers out there. I know because I'm one of them and I try to keep up, but it's nearly impossible.

It's also nearly impossible to catch the eye of established publishers, small or big.

Feel free to use this thread to discuss your writing woes and victories, whether it be words counts, what you're working on, rejections, acceptances, or if you just want to vent.

Let us hear it!

I am looking for a little advice on something I'm working on. I wouldn't have given it much thought, but I was recently reviewed by The Rotting Zombie and they loved my first book despite the "mouthful of a title." The working title of my current endeavor is One Small Step: How the U.S. Faked the Moon Landing to Avert the Zombie Apocalypse. Is it too much? Is a long title really that bad?

Personally, I think that the title is fine. A little long, sure, but I think it probably describes exactly what readers should expect when they go to read it.

Great idea for a new thread. I'll probably be here quite often.
I like that title. I would put "One Small Step" in big bold letters and the rest as sort of a side note or subtitle.

Ian - when I see longer titles like that I think of comedies. Will it be humor horror or no? If not, then maybe a shortened title when you get finished will be better. Perhaps offering your beta readers some suggested titles and see what they like would work good?

I usually don't think too much about titles until at least the first draft is finished. You may find that a better title jumps out at a certain part of the story that you really like.

'One Small Step: How the U.S. Faked the Moon Landing to Avert the Zombie Apocalypse'

Deadly serious or comedy?

I vote deadly serious. I would read that.

Thanks for the suggestion, Todd. I'll try that.

John, there are a few laughs (I'm snarky by nature- I can't help it) but it's mostly deadly serious, especially compared to my first book, which was about 25% zombies and 75% me being a cynical, sarcastic jackass.

I was also thinking One Undead Step, which would work well with the cover.

Thanks for the thread, Jason. I was trying to promote my own book recently and found a thread that showed the number of free books available. I was shell-shocked. There are so many. It's overwhelming. I couldn't see an end to it. I was lost in it. The horror, the horror. But a catchy, original title is one way to stand out. Personally, I love Philip K. Dick's titles, but I think the 'One Small Step...' needs a little crafting.

No problem, guys. But I believe that this was Todd's idea. I just set it up. :)

And Alec, you can feel a real sense of cosmic horror when looking at all the free/self-published books out there. It's like looking up at the stars and realizing that you're smaller than a grain of sand.

I mean, how does one compete against that?

At least, that's what it feels like sometimes. lol

There are so many indie writers out there. It's so easy to self publish nowadays and it's free, so thousands of people are doing it and it's extremely difficult to make a name for you to make your voice heard. I'm going to start a thread here where authors can share suggestions and tips on how to do this.

Great idea. Go for it, Ardy!

Cool bananas, Ardy.
You summed up it up well, Jason. It reminds me of the documentary 'Easy Riders, Raging Bulls'. There's a guy describing trying to break into Hollywood pre 1970s and publishing seems similar. I think that there is a lot of talent not picked up by publishers, but working the indie scene may never come good. You have to love what you do, keep the faith and hope you get read before you die.

Indeed, Alec!

When I see in the smashwords.com blog that some writers are making tens of thousands a quarter on ebooks while some of us are making tens of dollars, I wonder how they did it.

Ithink it's luck, Ardy. Dumb luck.

I knew I shouldn't have run over that black cat that time Friday the 13th was on a full moon!

My first book was published in the last month. I'd always thought getting a book published would be the most difficult part, but I'm starting to realise the hard part's getting anyone to actually read it.

So I'm trying to put effort into promoting it online (Goodreads, Twitter, Facebook, etc), but I'm no social media whizz. In fact, I'm probably even worse at making friends online than I am in the real world... so I'm off to a bit of a slow start.

Ardy, a thread with tips on how to make your voice heard sounds good. I don't want to just sit back and do nothing in the hopes the book gets "discovered", but I also don't want to drive people away by spamming them to death (seriously, I hate those guys).

The thread is already there. I've shared a few ideas on it, but I haven't been overwhelmingly successful myself.

What's your first book, John?

And Ardy, do you have a profile page on Smashwords you can post a link to here?

Thank you for asking, Jason. I didn't want to go right ahead and plug it without an invitation.

It's called Grudge Punk, and it's an anthology of dieselpunk-bizarro-horror-noir stories set in an alternate reality where people run on fossil fuel.

When I wrote it, I thought it was plenty marketable. Now I'm thinking maybe I should have stuck a few vampires and a teenage romance in there just to be on the safe side.

No problem, John. Is Grudge Punk available on Smashwords by any chance?

See... I don't even know what Smashwords is, which proves how ignorant I am.

If I had to guess I'd say no, it's not on Smashwords.

lol No problem, John. If you don't know what it is, then it isn't there. I do look forward to reading this. Looks like something right up my alley.

I was wondering if blog at all? Write reviews and whatnot?

Jason wrote: "What's your first book, John?

And Ardy, do you have a profile page on Smashwords you can post a link to here?"

http://www.smashwords.com/profile/vie...

It's also on my gr profile and my three novels are listed here as well. Akeldama: The Field of Blood is already on three TBR shelves and The Noble Mr. Prickles is on one.
Anyone not familiar with Smashwords.com should really check it out. They publish your ebook for free, help you through the process with lots of tips and resources and then, if it makes it into the premium catalog, which is really easy, they ship it off to all sorts of ebook retailers all over the world. My books are now on BN.com, Sony's ereader store, Diesel, iTunes, Kobo, and more I've never even heard of. I've sold books in Australia, Canada, Great Brittain, and the US and all I had to do was upload a word document and cover page.
There's even a group here on goodreads for smashwords authors.

"I was wondering if blog at all? Write reviews and whatnot?"

Yeah, I've started doing a bit more of that. Just on Goodreads.

Need to get on with reading more stuff before I can do anymore reviewing. Turns out there's a LOT of books out there. Who knew?

Just posted one of my stories here. It's "Bloody Halloween: An Akeldama Story" one of the prequels to Akeldama. The whole story is now available on goodreads.

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/3...

Loving the title, The Noble Mr Pickles, Ardy. Have you found that you have built up more of a following as you got to your third book? And John, I like the cover and idea to Grudge Punk - people running on fossil fuel? Do they drink it? I'm imagining something like a wine connoisseur's description - a fruity number with a hint of roses and overtones of rotted sea creatures... Look forward to reading them, although it takes me a good couple of months to read anything at the moment. I'm waiting to finish my second book before publishing it and the first in the series on smashwords, but have no idea if that's a sensible move. I'm just on Amazon kindle at the moment. Any thoughts?

I found that I gained an audience after I started publishing the free stories. The novels are doing okay, but before the free stories I had about ten sales. Now I have 113 at smashwords and numerous sales at other retailers.

My journey as an Indie writer has had so many ups and downs that I often don't know what to think. I started out publishing through a small press, but I knew I could do better than what I was writing for them. I wanted to write meaningful books, books that said important things and touched people in extraordinary ways. I went back to college to refine my grasp on literary theory, grammar, and story structure, and after I graduated, I decided it was time to take the plunge. I started by redrafting a few books I'd had on the back burner for some time, and then the roller coaster ride began.

I've had months of hardly any sales, months of ridiculously successful sales, and everything in between. My work has been called everything from brilliant to pretentious. Some reviewers have enthusiastically praised my work and others have left scathing write-ups. One of my novels was recently named a finalist for the 2013 EPICs, although right now, I'm making peanuts off it.

There are days when I want to throw in the towel, and there are days when I feel inspired and excited about my craft. I guess that's all part of the journey. I have a very small following, but I'm grateful for it. Most of all, however, I'm grateful to be a writer.

As long as you are passionate about what you do and you love what you are writing, you are successful. Very few indie writers make a lot of money at it. Stats say that most indie ebooks only sell about a hundred copies and many sell none. But, to misquote Stephen King, to know that some people actually think that you write such good stories that people are willing to pay for them is a great feeling. So far only about 150 people have wanted to pay for what I've written, but my free stories have hundreds of followers. I too am grateful to be a writer and I know that if and when I ever make enough money to make it all worthwhile, the money will just be icing on the cake. I don't do it for the money. I do it because I love to do it. And if people keep paying to read it and keep giving me reviews (most of them very good) then I know that others appreciate it as well.

A rollercoaster is a pretty exciting ride to be on, Leigh! Passion for your writing has got to be the key, and if some people like it then I think it's good. I know I have to accept that not everybody will like my writing even if that's difficult. Being a finalist for anything has got to be good though. It's got to raise publicity and awareness. I wouldn't have a clue as to how to even get on a shortlist.

Thanks for the comments Ardy. The free stories making a difference is very interesting. I'm thinking that the more I write the more people will get to know and, hopefully, trust me as a writer. I know that not many people are going to want to read a first time writer with no reputation, but at times I feel a bit like a drug pusher outside the school gates trying to give away free samples and being viewed with great suspicion.

I had wanted to comment on passion for writing, but I'm not sure how I want to articulate what I'm feeling. What it comes down to is that I've been writing for 12 years now and have experienced more downs the highs.

Although I've experienced and continue to experience failure upon failure, I know that I'm a decent writer. Of course I still have many things to learn, but you don't go 12 years without being passionate about it.

Just be warned if you meet me at a conference somewhere and I get talking about it with a few drinks in me. You won't be able to shut me up. lol

I've been writing for 30+ years now. Seems there's always a story idea kicking around in my head. For those who are concerned about personal validation (is my writing really any good?) I felt my writing improved greatly once I'd passed a million words. I've seen other authors throw around numbers like 10,000 hours (do the math, that's a long time writing). I've found that having hard word count goals--even if the writing produced isn't something you can immediately use--is worthwhile.

Best advice I've been given by a fellow author: write first for you and create stories you would love to read.

Despite winning a few online contests and having some good reviews from readers I've never met and don't know, I haven't achieved any real financial success with my writing yet. However, I do feel good about the quality of what I've put out there and some of my unpublished work.

It's the stories that keep me writing more than anything, though. I love reading and writing stories. The business part, particularly the marketing, I'm much less excited about.

I don't even know how many words I've written. If I were to guess, though, it would have to close to a million. Maybe 800 000. About seven years ago I suffered through a house fire that destroyed a lot of my short stories and a few novels I had written.

You guys have put in a good effort - whether you count it in years or words, and experience has got to develop your writing. I was just pleased to have completed my first - I'd been thinking about it for long enough. My condolences on the house fire, Jason. There was the Renaissance idea that writing (poetry in their case) is like a child and a way to reach beyond your own mortality. I guess house fires are one of the less likely risks with self publishing, but it must have been gutting. The other challenge - marketing when you'd rather be writing the next book.
Time to check out that thread...

Thanks, Alec.

Jonathan - respectfully, one shouldn't think of traditional publishing as "legimitate" publication when there are seasoned pros turning down traditional publication contracts (some are even firing their agents and keeping the additional 10-25%+) and clamoring to get their rights reverted, so they can self-publish and earn much higher royalties.

Personally, I think the wisest approach is to pursue both. Acquire an agent to help with movie, overseas and foreign rights (or retain a skilled IP attorney) as well as shop some of your novel-length work traditionally while you continue to work building a following with directly publishing, small publishing markets, magazines, the web, etc.

Best of luck to you :)

It's a trade off. Self publish and you get higher royalties on fewer sales and if you get a major contract you get lower royalties on much more sales. Personally, I like the freedom that self publishing provides. From what I've seen or heard, when someone else owns your work, you are limited creatively and have to answer to publishers and agents and retailers. Self publishing takes much of that stress away. Plus, with the stats the way they are right now, if you sell a hundred books, you can call your book a success. Try saying that with even a few thousand sales with a "traditional" publisher.

Sharing good news on the indie front: Smashwords just sent out their quarterly payment checks and for the first time, I GOT ONE!!! I am far from rich, but it sure feels good to have money in my hand from my writing. This is the first time I got paid for my writing since 8th grade when the other kids would pay me to write their creative writing assignments! (sadly, I made about the same amount of money for my novels that I did for those short stories twenty years ago, but at least I don't have to lie to my mother about where this money came from.)

Awesome, Ardy! Congratulations!

I've been writing on my blog about my own experiences as an independent author. Anyone who wants to check out those posts can take a look over at http://sloggingtowardsbethlehem.blogs.... I would in particular recommend my post, "The Sexing of Baby Chicks and How to Write More Better".

Self-publishing reminds me of titration. That's the kind of chemical test where you take a beaker of clear fluid and introduce another chemical, drop by drop. Nothing happens until, at some point, one more drop causes a dramatic change, like turning the clear beaker fluid blue. To me, that's a metaphor for self-publishing.

There is a concept, called Pareto's Principle. To quote Arthur W. Hafner:

"Pareto's rule states that a small number of causes is responsible for a large percentage of the effect, in a ratio of about 20:80. Expressed in a management context, 20% of a person's effort generates 80% of the person's results. The corollary to this is that 20% of one's results absorb 80% of one's resources or efforts."

I'm still learning, but my observation thus far would be that the 20% of effort for success in self-publishing is primarily derived from two catalysts: Word-of-mouth advertising and reviews.

However, another observation is that 'reviews' is more of a corollary with that first one, word-of-mouth advertising. Basically, a book takes off and becomes successful due to readers and reviewers who buttonhole their family and friends, telling them, "You have to read this book!".

Everything else is ancillary to that, including reviews, which simply reflect word-of-mouth on a larger scale. OTOH, if you have enough word-of-mouth, you don't need a high percentage of five star reviews, a la 'Fifty Shades of Gray'. If your primary concern is sales, rather than critical acclaim, that is.

My favourite piece of advice was the one Kevin Costner got in Field of dreams: If you build it, they will come...

Hasn't worked so far!

so far my experience as an indie author has been great. My debut novel has been selling well in both my native UK and in the states, I'm far from wealthy from it, but when that first payment arrives from Amazon it will be in quadruple figures, not bad as the book has only been out for about six weeks. I have had some great reviews and some negative ones, mostly about spelling and grammatical errors, but the book has now been professionally edited and is up as a second edition.

My second book, a collection of short stories of rural horror is currently being edited and will hopefully be out at the end of this month, or early next month at the latest. I'm currently working on my second novel and that is going really well too. I am in the lucky position that my wife works and I'm a stay at home dad, which gives me plenty of time to work. I understand it must be difficult for the indie authors who are juggling writing and full time jobs.

I feel that writing is what I am meant to do, and am glad that I have started in a period when there are so many options for authors. good luck everyone, I hope your writing brings you as much joy as mine does to me.

Kit that is fantastic. How did you market your book to stand out?

I think M.R. made a great suggestion. We are all connected to so many different groups of people and if we cross promote I believe that will also open doors for our writing to be seen and hopefully purchased.

Micky I don't know really, I think part of it was down to a great piece of cover art, thanks to my father, I also did a lot ( and I mean a lot) of promotion through Twitter and Facebook, plus I did a five day free promotion in the first week, this got me a few good reviews.

also I run my blog from my website, and I do movie and music reviews on there as well as writing related things.

I agree wholeheartedly with the cross promotion thing though, I think the more we work together, the more people we will all reach

Well Kit I wish you the very best. I am going to see if I can find your book on Amazon, so I may purchase it.

The only issue with cross promoting is how do you tell someone their book needs much work? I mean, you don't want to promote something that is crap, but you do want to help your fellow writer.

When writing for a long period of time, take a break. You deserve it and trust me if you dont all youve written wont make sense and your brain will become restless. Breaks are good!

I take month long breaks in between writing. It refreshed my brain and new ideas come to me. I'm wondering about the pros and cons of self publishing.