Help with Book Formatting discussion

Please let us know what you use to format your books, it could be Microsoft Word, Adobe InDesign, Open Office... something else?

Hi Jo,
I use Microsoft Word 2010 and Adobe Acrobat Pro. Photoshop CS6 for images. Notepad++, Sigil, and Kindlegen for eBooks.

I'm interested in what people say about this. I get hundreds of book manuscripts sent to me every year, and about 90-95% have been written in Microsoft Word, often Word for Mac. That surprises me because on discussion boards such as this, the proportion of Word users seems much lower.

I write in Kingsoft Office on my tablet. But I do my formatting in Word after I use the "nuclear option" mentioned in the Smashwords Style Guide of pasting it into Notepad to get rid of any autoformatting.

Hi,

I write/publish eBooks.

I draft in Scrivener, but then I switch to MS Word for later versions of a book. The reason I mention Scrivener is because it does have eBook output formatting options when you plug in Kindlegen, but I've never used them in anger.

Microsoft Word is the s/w I use for my Smashwords submissions atm (Smashwords have a thorough style guide for MS Word docs, which is useful), although I am considering using their ePub submission options in the future, which means I'll use what I use for my Kindle generation, Mobipocket Creator. I use Mobipocket's html conversion option, since I find I can control things pretty precisely with html, so I pre-format the draft in Microsoft Word when doing search and replace and then move to PSPad, a text/code editor, to finish off and check my html when I have done the majority of the cut and paste of html tags.

If I need an epub from the .mobi file, I'll then use Calibre to do the conversion.

Tim wrote: "Hi Jo,
I use Microsoft Word 2010 and Adobe Acrobat Pro. Photoshop CS6 for images. Notepad++, Sigil, and Kindlegen for eBooks.

I'm interested in what people say about this. I get hundreds of book m..."

Hi Tim,

I use Microsoft Word, in Windows until I got my Mac last year. You seem to use a lot of different software, which do you prefer?

I plan on learning html this year for formatting, I don't know how that will alter the output I'm getting now with Word.

Meredith wrote: "I write in Kingsoft Office on my tablet. But I do my formatting in Word after I use the "nuclear option" mentioned in the Smashwords Style Guide of pasting it into Notepad to get rid of any autofor..."

Hi Meredith,

That's how I would format an eBook, although I copy and then paste special (unformatted text) into my eBook formatting template I set-up. It's pretty much the same as the nuclear method, removing all the existing formatting.

Sophie wrote: "Hi,

I write/publish eBooks.

I draft in Scrivener, but then I switch to MS Word for later versions of a book. The reason I mention Scrivener is because it does have eBook output formatting option..."

Hi Sophie,

It sounds like a complicated way of doing things, the reason I say that is both Amazon and Smashword's accept Word documents... can I ask, what difference is there if you do it your way? Are there benefits you don't get when using Word?

I use Mobipocket Creator and Calibre to convert, but never to convert for uploading to Amazon/Smashwords.

Hi everybody! This looks as if it will be an interesting group.

I convert anything I'm handed (doc, txt, rtf, scans) into a text file on Notepad++ to make a clean source file.

I hand-code ebook files in Notepad++ (one for mobi, one for EPUB), compile them into zip files, then run them through the EPUB validator. Then I convert the Kindle specific file into mobi format through the Kindle Previewer/Kindlegen. I use FreeOCR to convert scans, Paint.Net for graphics, Word for Smashwords, and Scrivener for my own writing and to make pdf files. MobiPocket Creator is too out of date for making pro-ebooks, but I love it to convert documents for proofreading on my Kindle (fast!). I use Calibre to check EPUB files for layout, toc.ncx, nav guide and links. I check Kindle books on my Kindle devices (don't fully trust the online previewers).

Whew, too many programs. :)

For my ebooks: I write in word, then copy to notepad to strip it of the formatting and then back to word where I remove more of the hidden formatting. Then I save as a webpage filtered and upload to Calibre where I convert it into epub and mobi. Works really well. I do this to check it and so I have a copy to send to reviewers. I found this website (http://www.bwmbooks.com/self-publish/ - it was free now .99Cents) which has a step by step guide on how to format your ebook for uploading (although Kindle, Smashwords and Kobo - each have a few additional changes I need to make but not much. It is a tedious process, very time consuming. :) Although I think I have gotten better at the set up so I don't have so much at the end.

Great idea. Thanks for starting this Jo. It's interesting to see what everyone else does. Some good tips.

I use Microsoft Office Mostly, but I am familiar with all other word processing tools.

Thanks for your comments JW, Maggie and John, again lots of different ways of formatting eBooks. :)

Jo wrote: "Sophie wrote: "Hi,

I write/publish eBooks.

I draft in Scrivener, but then I switch to MS Word for later versions of a book. The reason I mention Scrivener is because it does have eBook output fo..."

I find I get more control when using html. I'm forever double checking the word docs for Smashwords, because Word has a nasty habit of sticking in hidden bookmarks and stuff like that. Since I started my working life as a programmer, I'm also more than familiar with html.

Hey all :)
I write entirely in Scrivener and completely swear by it. I can edit and move stuff around so much faster than Word.
When it is finished, I export it to Word, remove all formatting and work through Mark Coker's formatting guide. Then I make some tweaks myself, and have my Smashwords format. It's just a few simple steps to make a KDP format. For my CreateSpace paperback, I suck my KDP document into their online previewer, and go through a series of check, edit, upload...

For my next book I am considering going direct to Pubit and Apple so that I have more control over more advanced formatting. But I have a lot of research to be done for these options. Hopefully someone here has done that? :)

With my next book, I also want to see how good a job Scrivener's formatter is. Theoretically I could spit final ebook files straight out of Scrivener. That would save a lot of time. Anyone done that?

Graeme wrote: "Hey all :)
I write entirely in Scrivener and completely swear by it. I can edit and move stuff around so much faster than Word.
When it is finished, I export it to Word, remove all formatting and w..."

I love Scrivener. I don't use it to make ebooks anymore, but I do love it. Here is what I wrote on my blog in answer to a question similar to yours:

Scrivener DOES have the capabilities to make good ebooks. A caveat, though. First, What You See Is NOT What You Get. That is the biggest problem with using any word processing or word processing type program. We SEE what is on the screen instead of what will end up in the ebook. The program can lull you into thinking you are building one thing while its inner works are busily building something else altogether. You have to be meticulous about your styles and the special formatting and make sure you don’t inadvertently do something that works AGAINST the ebook devices. Plus, while Scrivener handles graphics well, it does have a tendency to bloat the files. That’s something to keep in mind when making a Kindle file for Amazon (big files cost money!). Also, it is really really important to split your file. If you use the Inserted Page Break command there is a good chance you will lose your intended page breaks and the device navigator won’t work.

The real beauty of Scrivener is that it is user friendly and it’s fast. It takes less than a minute to compile a mobi or EPUB file and load it up on a device or in a previewer to check it.

One big downside I have found with Scrivener is that it is grabby to the max. For instance, if you discover you did something to lock the fonts so the user can’t customize their screen view, it makes sense to go back and fix what needs fixed, right? Except fixing the problem doesn’t seem to erase the problem. It just covers it up. So all that old coding is still in the ebook and that can cause some weird NEW problems. If that happens, the best thing I can recommend is to ditch the broken file, and start over from scratch. ALWAYS have a clean source file on standby.

Thanks, JW. I understand what you mean. I have used far too many HTML tools (like DreamWeaver) that retain the old HTML and just keep adding to it, so under the hood you have this total mess of tags, most of which have been overridden by more recent additions. Ugly, and I agree that ereaders are very picky over formatting.

Maybe I should stick to what works for me :)

Hi Everyone,

I use notepad.

That's it. Notepad.

I create images and chapter headers with InDesign. I would very much like to spread my wings and convert work for other e-readers other than just the Kindle.

Scrivener: Writing and editing
OpenOffice: Formatting
Calibre: File conversions
Corel: Drawing and image manipulation

I was a graphic designer and creative director in another life and have posted a couple of articles on my website/weblog regarding typography. They're buried under the category "Blogging" (there is a logic to that) so you'll have to scroll though a few others to find these gems.

http://www.jackdurish.com/jacks-blog....

As a publisher of books and ebooks my graphics team uses InDesign to export for pdf and epub. For enhanced epubs and mobipocket (embedded read along features, animation, music, narration etc) my IT team uses html and xml software as the degree of complexity is very high.

I think there is a very clear distinction between novels and poetry, non fiction, etc. Most novels can get away with incredibly simple formatting using Smashwords/KDP tools and still look really good.

I just switched to Scrivener for ALL my formatting.

This program is very comprehensive, and since I have a Mac, I don't need to export my Pages document to Word in order to format for Kindle.

I LOVE IT!
Mary Kathryn Johnson

Hi Everyone, thanks for inviting me to be in this group. We offer book formatting services and we use Adobe InDesign in all of our titles, both for print and ebook conversion. We like InDesign, it is very user friendly and has very advance feature compared to MS Word.

I will surely check this group regularly. :)


Thanks,


Jeny
Book Formatting | Cover Design | eBook Conversion
www.thefastfingers.com

I usually write in Scrivener. For Linger I did everything in Scrivener and InDesign (with some help from a colleague).

I think I will keep doing it this way. My colleague says it's easier to format ebooks and print books with InDesign and--despite being a very advanced program--InDesign feels easier to use than MSWord.

I've just started to use Notepad++ and will not go back to the original notepad. It's very handy for linking chapters with the contents pages. I find the split page facility the most useful function.

I also had a look at Sigil last night. That might take a while to get used to, but it would help spread my customer base to other e-reader users.

It really depends which format the client wants, for example for .epub, I code in Notepad++, convert in Calibre and clean it up in Sigil.

For .prc or .mobi I use the Smashwords style guide in MS Word, then do the conversion in Mobipocket.

For POD books I use InDesign.

Recently I used Kindle Previewer to convert an epub into mobi so we could view a file on Kindle Fire.

Thanks for all your comments, lots of interesting formatting ideas.

Can anyone suggest any good books which provide real formatting help? I've downloaded a few in the past which haven't been that good to be honest.

If you have some which you recommend, please add them to the bookshelf!

I use Word (now Word for Mac) and Photoshop, then follow the instructions on amazon's Create Space.

Jo wrote: "Can anyone suggest any good books which provide real formatting help? I've downloaded a few in the past which haven't been that good to be honest.

If you have some which you recommend, please add ..."
I read one recently from Paul Salvette. http://www.amazon.co.uk/eBook-Design-... It's pretty good if you want to do the strip down to html approach. I was thinking of writing a decent 'how to do eBook formatting' book myself, as much of what I've seen is pretty poor, but Paul's pretty much written it already. The swine :-)

Thanks Tim, definitely want to get into HTML this year, will take a look!

Jo, you wondered what advantage there is to using html. Images were the game changer for me. If you use Kindlegen, you can get higher quality images, but if you run it over the html output from Word, you will get the dreaded small font problem (which was also caused by the InDesign plugin, don't know if it still is). Now that the Paperwhite has a greater width in pixels, and KF8 Kindles scale differently from old Mobi7) I don't see any way to reliably scale images for Kindle without using html coding and media queries. Once you've got your head round it, it's not tricky.

Tim wrote: "Jo wrote: "Can anyone suggest any good books which provide real formatting help? I've downloaded a few in the past which haven't been that good to be honest.

If you have some which you recommend, ..."

I will second the value and usefulness of Paul's book. He knows his stuff. He shows you how to build an ebook from the inside out. You need to know some basics of html and css, but I'm a novice in that regard and had no trouble figuring out the instructions. Plus, he offers templates and other useful goodies on his bbebooks websites.

Thanks, I just downloaded a sample and it's exactly what I was looking for... Now purchased and sitting on my iMac ready to get going next week!

I know basic HTML/CSS, but not how to use it for eBooks... I'm actually quite looking forward to getting started!

Hi - interesting discussion. I've been an HTML coder since the dark ages and have always used:

http://www.mobipocket.com/en/download...

to generate the source file which I 'tidy up' in HTML

Tim wrote: "Jo wrote: "Can anyone suggest any good books which provide real formatting help? I've downloaded a few in the past which haven't been that good to be honest.

If you have some which you recommend, ..."

I just got my sample and I'm very impressed as well, will definitely buy it. It is always good to reinforce my skills and maybe learn a thing or two. Thanks Tim!

I do all my writing, editing and formatting using MS Word 2007 including setting up links to chapter headings and save in .doc format. I following the Smashwords style and formatting guide, and then use MobiPocket Creator and Calibre to convert and test. So far, I've had no problems, no autovetter errors and no issues with the Smashwords Premium Catalogue, or Amazon.

Hi everyone

I do my writing and editing in Word and then strip out all of Word's extraneous code using Notepad ++. Then I add formatting (bold, paragraphs, etc) with the help of Guido Henkel's brilliant set of posts, see: http://guidohenkel.com/2010/12/take-p...

and then convert it, say for Amazon, via http://calibre-ebook.com/

It's quite a detailed process but gives a good result. You can get a feel for the whole process in the excellent Let's Get Digital. http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/le...

And with practice, the process gets easier!

Ellie wrote: "Hi everyone

I do my writing and editing in Word and then strip out all of Word's extraneous code using Notepad ++. Then I add formatting (bold, paragraphs, etc) with the help of Guido Henkel's bri..."

Hi Ellie

But doesn't this wipe out ALL your formatting e.g. italics? Seems pretty drastic to have to reformat an entire novel. Or am I missing something?

Hi all-

I use word 2010. For Kindle, in Word, I save as html (web page), then zip it all up and upload - this seems to work fine (for Kindle anyway.)

Max

Max wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Hi everyone

I do my writing and editing in Word and then strip out all of Word's extraneous code using Notepad ++. Then I add formatting (bold, paragraphs, etc) with the help of Guid..."

I always reformat a novel from scratch as you never know what could be lurking underneath which may cause an issue in conversion. There are ways of using find/replace to pinpoint all the italics/bold etc... so it's very easy to put them all back again. I would rather spend time doing this than having to work out what the underlying problem could be after conversion...

Interesting. I use quite a lot of Spanish in my novels so this is not an option for me. There would be scads of work to redo and I know I would miss something.

Ah yes, it may cause issues with other languages... but if your books are turning out ok, then I don't see a problem with the way you're doing it Max. :)

Jo wrote: "Max wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Hi everyone

I do my writing and editing in Word and then strip out all of Word's extraneous code using Notepad ++. Then I add formatting (bold, paragraphs, etc) with the ..."

Exactly what Jo said!

I wrote my latest novel using Scrivener and really thought it worked well. I also use Scrivener to produce eBooks. #JustSaying

Max wrote: "Hi all-

I use word 2010. For Kindle, in Word, I save as html (web page), then zip it all up and upload - this seems to work fine (for Kindle anyway.)

Max"

Hey Max,

Just a heads up, despite Amazon specifically recommending that workflow, it actually results in a defective product 100% of the time. In order to avoid font sizing and face issues on many (MANY) Kindle Readers you'd need to edit or remove a number of CSS properties.

On the topic, my eBook process uses the following software (not in linear order):

KindleGen
Info-ZIP
Word
NotePad++
Custom toolchain

Hi Timothy-
I hadn't heard of KindleGen - I'll have to take a look. When I create a zip file, I always download to a Kindle and verify that all looks good. Mind you, that's a 3G so for the Fire, I have to trust the online viewer. I've been thinking of purchasing a Fire so I can verify the 'real' file. Thanks for the head's up.
Max

Hey, Max,

I wrote a post on some of the ways Kindle books get "broken." The comment thread has some good insights.

http://jwmanus.wordpress.com/2013/03/...

Adobe InDesign - Book formatting and ebook conversion
Microsoft word, if the clients want to have word document.

As usual, I'm late to the party, but at least I think it's the right party. I've been googling book formatting programs and I'm not sure google knows what I mean. Perhaps one of you knows of a program that would let me copy my manuscript from Word and paste it into the program with the result of having it come out in proper paperback format? In the past I've done it "by hand," so to speak, in Word, and it's almost driven me crazy. I usually wind up taking four pieces of paper, folding the stack in half, and numbering the pages left to right so that I can figure out which page would follow which in Word so that it prints correctly. Thanks!

Hi, I'm not sure why you're doing that but I think you want to see what your book will look like when it's properly printed.

As long as have set up your document as single pages (not spreads), desired page size, reasonable margins and in consecutive order, you don't have to do much more.

When you print out your book at home it will be on an A4 sheet but if you've set up your page size and margins properly, the printed text will give you a good idea of what the finished size will look like.

You can the provide your word document to your printer/publisher, they'll do an page imposition in pre-press before they go to print.