The Clave discussion

I had a thought today to discuss who is the best villian of the mortal instruments, and why.
I like Sebastian the best, as he is cunning, vile and gorgeous, but also pure evil.

I agree. Sebastian is the best villain...cuz he's Clary's brother and he's soooooooooo *********

Valentine. Sebastian is a little too overly wicked for my taste. At least Valentine has some morals (aka being possessive of your wife, NOT your own sister.)

I understand your views.

Hmmm... I'm going to have to go with Sebastian. He really did have me fooled in the third book

yeah I bet he knew clary was his sister, but he still messed with and kissed her, that is beyond sick and psycho if he did know.

Yeah and then he practically attacked her in the fifth book. I mean, its just disgusting.

Valentine was my favorite. Lilith was short lived. Sebastian's awesome too

awesome :)

don't tell me what happens in bk 5 as I havent read it yet.

Lilith should live longer and rules the world as what a mother of all evil should do. Dang! she has to die that quick.

Valentine should be the best villain, if he is younger.

Sebastian should be my favourite, if he is wit. But Sebastian is pure evil, no matter how strikingly handsome he is. He is lack of dark humour. Such a boring handsome evil. If Cassie is going to add a bit of humane in him in City of Heavenly Fire, I would love Sebastian more.

My best villain is someone like Damon from The Vampire Diary, so gorgeous, darn smart and wit, and so bad!

Wait why are you saying 'should' ?

Arti wrote: "Wait why are you saying 'should' ?"

Because of the reasons I provide above. Sebastian should be my fave, but he is not.

As for Damon... my mistake. I have changed it... :)

Ohh ok

I say Lilith because she kind of wants the whole downworlders to rise, that's a pretty big deal. I think Sebastian is evil and all (because he's going to finish what Lilith started) but I think of him more as a really, really, really creepy older brother that needs a serious restraining order. Valentine however, I'm not sure. He's been dead for a while so he's not that important anymore. He was like Part 1 problem.

Alyssa wrote: "I say Lilith because she kind of wants the whole downworlders to rise, that's a pretty big deal. I think Sebastian is evil and all (because he's going to finish what Lilith started) but I think of ..."

I was a bit dissapointed when Lilith died. I think having her, the super evil demon as the antagonist will be awesome, instead of such a creepy demonic Sebastian.

Too bad....

But just watch as somehow Lilith comes back

Nurlely wrote: "Lilith should live longer and rules the world as what a mother of all evil should do. Dang! she has to die that quick.

Valentine should be the best villain, if he is younger.

Sebastian should be..."

Damon!!1 I love that show and him!! <3

My fave supernatural badass I think is......Valentine. He hurt a child and turned his son into a demon. That is the most horrific thing anyone could ever do. He used love as a weapon. I would love to run him through with a sword. Jonathon can't help therefore he shouldn't count. Lilith is a demon she's designed to be evil.

I never actually thought of Valentine that way. Those are really great reasons

Vicky wrote: "I had a thought today to discuss who is the best villian of the mortal instruments, and why.
I like Sebastian the best, as he is cunning, vile and gorgeous, but also pure evil."

Yes, definitely him. He's controlling and his rough personality is sexy

SEBASTIAN ALL THE FREAKING WAY.

HOLY CRAP HES PROBABLY ONE OF THE SEXIEST~ VILLAINS EVER. AND JEEZ, HIS PERSONALITY AND WIT AND JUST EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM. HES PERFECT IN TERMS OF BEING A BADASS. GAH. AND HES SO FREAKING CLEVER AND I CANT. THAT JUST ADDS MORE SEXINESS TO HIM.

Okay. I'm done using all caps. Haha.

I TOTALLY AGREE

agreed

Arti wrote: "But just watch as somehow Lilith comes back"

Oh No!... I refuse for another resurrection. It is just so annoying. Can anyone just stay dead in the series?

Jilian wrote: "SEBASTIAN ALL THE FREAKING WAY.

HOLY CRAP HES PROBABLY ONE OF THE SEXIEST~ VILLAINS EVER. AND JEEZ, HIS PERSONALITY AND WIT AND JUST EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM. HES PERFECT IN TERMS OF BEING A BADASS. G..."

How is he wit?
Sebastian is evil smart. He uses his brain for all the evil outcome.

Nurlely wrote: "Arti wrote: "But just watch as somehow Lilith comes back"

Oh No!... I refuse for another resurrection. It is just so annoying. Can anyone just stay dead in the series?"

I'm just glad Valentine didnt come back. That would have been irratating

Nurlely wrote: "Arti wrote: "But just watch as somehow Lilith comes back"

Oh No!... I refuse for another resurrection. It is just so annoying. Can anyone just stay dead in the series?"

lol that WOULD be annoying

Thats hilarious, and true. How many people were resurrected so far? Simon, Sebastian, Lilith, Jace. Thats almost half the characters! And i think there's more

Yeah but for them it works

I love Sebastian! I almost want him to turn good! you could kinda tell that he was trying with Clary...he wants to love, but being a demonoid it's hard. He has my sympathy!(:

He wasn't trying to be good! He just wanted to sleep with her. I think he was just faking the whole "I'm your brother and I care about you" thing

well, like I know he was being a creep..but it seems like he wants to be wanted..he's evil, yeah..but you can definitely see something in him

But he's so sick minded. He doesn't feel anything for anyone. Maybe if he rethought his ways, stuff could change, but I really dont feel that there's a chance for him to change. And I know its not his fault. Its Valentine's fault because he like ruined Sebastian as a child and stuff

I totally get what you're saying, its just a problem I have with loving the demented :p

Sebastian is evil and needs to die. No more resurrection for him (or anyone else).

Yeah, i dont think there'll be a chance for him either. I mean, look at the Clave, remember when everybody thought Jace was Valentine's real son. They didnt leave him alone, they kept their eye on him, and that was just because he was "Valentine's son" If thats how they acted towards that situation, what do you think they're going to do with Sebastian, if he supposedly turns "good". He broke the Law,like in everything he did, and he killed like a large number of nephilim and downworlders. They wont let it go.

Oh and he was in alliance with demons

yeah..and then what he did with Luke's sister...):

Don't forget loathsome. What he said to Clary about her and Jace's intimate moments was so freaking disgusting. The way he desires Clary deserves a slow painful death. But I suppose a stab right to his heart will do it just fine. Killing Sebastian in evil way only makes the killer as evil as him.

He is quite the character..If he wasn't Valentine's son and if he wasn't all demon and what not..he'd be a pretty good personality

Would he? Maybe he also died still-born or when he was an infant. More to say, no evil Sebastian means no Sebastian. No complicated story of TMI.

Sebastian is evil and needed to complete the story. He just need to die by the end of the day.

If you think about it though, he's super jealous of Jace, Jace has always been loved, Valentine preferred him, Clary prefers him, everyone loves Jace more...Sebastian can't stand it, he may be evil, but he wants someone to love him, even if he doesn't love, he wants someone to care about him the way that people care about Jace..he wants so badly to be number one, but we all know he never will be, and he still tries, that's why I like him, he is determined, determined to have someone love him, he's just going about EVERYTHING completely wrong because he's an evil demon thing...

How did Valentine prefer Jace to Sebastian? Sebastian is his blood, and a better fighter, although he also freaked Valentine out, due to his senseless and emotionless-self (the demon blood rules).
Valentine killed Jace's bird, has he beaten, and made him believed that to love is to destroy.

For Sebastian, Valentine is his father only. He could not stand the feeling of Valentine liking Jace because for him, Jace is nothing, compared to him.

Sure he wanted someone to love him. Even Lilith, a mother of all demon, had a lover once. Demons love, the way demons want, in demon's way. And Sebastian is so far the number one evil shadowhunter. He is strong enough to defeat any shadowhunter in a single combat. Even the powerful Jace almost died in his effort to kill him. And Jace got the angel's power in him.

He preferred Jace in the sense that when he was displeased with Sebastians over-eagerness to destroy and conquer without any sense of guilt or sympathy, he turned around and went back to Jace..remember he would stay with Jace for days at a time and with Sebastian hardly that long, Sebastian was jealous of the time Jace spent with Valentine..and yeah Jace isn't really y Valentines son, but Valentine raised him...
when Valentine died, Jace felt guilty, and we all know in that moment that Valentine loved Jace in a way that he could never have loved Sebastian
Valentine knew that Sebastian was too much, it was evident in the way that he treated him, giving him very specific orders, because otherwise he would go overboard, he couldn't trust Sebastian, but he trusted Jace
Sebastian always ended up with the bad end of the stick
Valentine may have said to kill is to destroy, but that is partially his emotions towards his own life, he loved an ideal and he destroyed the people he cared about to try and reach that ideal, making Sebastian so bad ass was one of those regrets,
Valentine wanted to reform the Clave and Sebastian wanted to straight up destroy it, Valentine had no intentions on pulling that kinda crazyness through, Sebastian knew that, he knew that no matter what, he would never be enough to please his father...he deserves at least some sympathy for that.

I completely 100percent agree with you! He's just misunderstood and I think people should try to understand him instead of disregarding him as just some demon...(:

Kaylah Eiramenna wrote: "yeah..and then what he did with Luke's sister...):"

That was HORRIBLE

to Arti: oh my goodness I know! I nearly cried)': if they'd only arrived sooner

I know! I was in shock. I like stared at the scene for like a minute cause it had to sink in. I really hope they find a cure or something

yeah, something kinda like how they cured Jace...but less tragically painful...didn't someone end up killing her though?):