Kenyons Minions discussion

My Savitar Theory

I've thought about this A LOT.

A sick and obsessive amount, really...

And I haven't seen the theory mentioned elsewhere.

I think Savitar is Ash's dad.

The interaction between Savitar and Appolymi that's just come out in more recent books got me thinking. They seem VERY comfortable with one another, in that "we used to have a lil sumtin sumtin" sort of way. The way they argue and talk of one another is far more like old lovers than acquaintances. People are linking them as a future HEA, but what if there already was a relationship there?

(I think Savitar and Appolymi as a couple would be hilarious by the way-they're both so ridiculously impatient and fiery. They'd try to murder each other, but the make-up sex would be phenomenal.)

Also, Savitar always refuses to get involved, yet was on the scene like a flash when War attacked Ash.

Not to mention the fact that when Ash came into his powers, who was the first on the scene? Savitar. And his comfort level with the Charonte implies that he's spent massive amounts of time with them. Who has always been close with the Charonte? Appolymi, even before she was banished and put on lockdown.

Speaking of powers, how did Ash become the Harbinger, and a god killer? His powers far surpass those of the son of two Atlantean gods. I don't think he could be a Chthonian if he didn't have a different parentage.

The one thing that confuses me though is that at one point we're told that as a human, Ash was half Charonte. Is Savitar a Charonte? Like the big ol' grand daddy of 'em all? Is that why he dotes on Simi and has Charonte demons at his beck and call when he rushes in to save Ash from War?

And as an added bonus, Savitar has given Ash and his loved ones the ability to come to his private island whenever they want, a privilege denied everyone else.

What do you think?

Am I way off base?

Can you recall anything that would refute this?

"used to have a lil sumtin sumtin"
LMAO!!

It's been a while since I finished reading the series, but this is the kind of stuff that makes me want to read all over again to see what I missed.

I'm on the side of Sav and Appol being HEA, but your theory sounds convincing.

Oh, I totally want them thrown back together again. If for nothing else than to watch the fireworks fly!

It's mentioned in Acheronand later The Dark-Hunter Companion that Ash was conceived after a night of divine sex between Appolymi and Archon. I don't think Appolymi could me mistaken on her son's parentage.

The half-Charonte thing was because Appolymi's friend, the Charonte she sent to Ash gave him a few of her powers (she leanrt on his hardships through this exchange)...I don't know about other powers, though. I know his grandmother was the North Wind, his grandfather Chaos (or something). You just have to get super powers with a lineage like this.

I, too, am feeling "a lil sumtin sumtin" between Sav and the Destroyer lady. And if there had been more than "a lil sumtin sumtin" in the past it would explain why he was there when Ash needed him – and still is there when Ash needs him. Protecting the child of the woman he had "a lil sumtin sumtin" with. I don’t get the Daddy Dearest vibe, though.

Let’s just wait and see.

Yeah, but that wouldn't explain him being half-Charonte. Power exchange is one thing. Being blue with horns is something quite different! I think it's too extreme to be just a result of his connection with Simi's mom...

Yes, a previous relationship with her could be enough to prompt him to care for her son.

Hmnn...

I'm keeping my eye on them!

Thinking on it, he was already blue when Appolymi gave birth to him, before hiding him in the human realm.

Maybe it had something to do with Archon...

Whoever his father is, it can't be Archon as far as I'm concerned. Lily-livered weakling of a god!

Besides, it says that Appolymi had been trying for forever to have a baby (and for a goddess, that could be a hell of a long time), and couldn't. Apostolos seemed like he was the miracle baby she'd been waiting for.

I think she went somewhere other than Archon's bed in her desperation to have a baby.

I have to look later at the exact wording wherever they mention Archon in relation to Ash.

And don't forget cheater. Wasn't Archon the one to have an extra-marital affair with Sin's first wife back in the old Sumeria? He was also probably the biological sperm donor for Sin's daughter, Ishtar (at least I think that was her name).

Basically he used to horizontal-mambo the first wife of his granddaughter's husband. Talk about Jerry Springer material.

That is correct! Wow, soon Ash will turn out to be his own uncle at this rate.

All this speculation is making my head hurt. So much that might have been. I just want to know what the real story is. How many books will there be before we get to know what really went down with everyone?

Lord only knows. Although I think that Savitar is his own arc after Jaden.

Yeah that's what was mentioned on SK's site. Then the fourth one is someone who she hasn't introduced yet. Boy am I excited! :)

And Acheron took how many books? I wonder if Jaden's is going to stretch over the same sort of time frame or if it will take fewer books to come to completion?

Because SK will be in her 80s if it takes 20-something stories for each arc!

Not that I don't love it, but wow, can you imagine?

Oye.

Haha, hopefully it won't be 20 books.

On one hand, I'd love it, on the other I'd hate it for one reason. Ash has had everyone play god with his life and most have betrayed him. Ok, forget those who are gods, just stick with my thought here. His daughter was kept from him, happiness was kept from him, it just never stops, just a thousand little things to big things. Realistically I think he should have been a lot more pissed off about some of this stuff, but ok, whatever.

If Sav turned out to be his father, knew it, and never said anything to him... How much does this poor guy need to be betrayed?

Having said that, I would love to see Appolymi and Savitar together. It would make me laugh.

If Sav turned out to be his father, knew it, and never said anything to him... How much does this poor guy need to be betrayed? ..."

This is true...and I thought of that when I was contemplating the whole thing.

Although it is terribly screwed up, I was thinking that perhaps Savitar knew that he couldn't interfere. If not for everything that's happened in Ash's past, Ash would've/could've ended up the typical god who just didn't give a damn about humanity. The most important thing about Ash is that, although he is the Harbinger, he has no desire to bring about the world's destruction.

Also, I mentally gave myself an out-clause by thinking that perhaps Savitar's procognition, like Ash's, is somehow skewed or vague when it comes to those important to him. He says in one book that he only cares about two people in the world, himself and one other. The one other has to be Ash--I haven't seen any evidence of him overly caring about anyone else. Since Ash is the only one important to him, perhaps Ash is a chink in Savitar's omnipotence?

I dunno. The mind whirls with possibilities! I just can't give up on the idea that he's half charonte. HALF! It's niggled its way into my brain and I can't dislodge it...

Okay, I finally read One Silent Night and some sort of epiphany hit me. (Yeah, I'll argue the Sav is Ash's daddy theory again.)

About Savitar being immediately on the scene when War attacked Ash...
Savitar is a Chthonian, one of the original ones (he was there in the epic battle that ended with War trapped in Tartarus), so he probably feels like the big daddy of them all. This would explain him calling Ash "grom". Ash is younger than him, and probably has lesser powers than Savitar...He also called him "little brother" - the Chthonians as a race are all brethren and Ash is the youngest.
And, since there are only eight Chthonians living, maybe Savitar has some hind of alarm system that goes off when one of them is attacked.

Following the whole Savitar being the oldest Chthonian living, it would also explain why he was there when Ash came into his powers. The poor guy needed someone to teach him how to channel all those primal powers...Also Apollymi asked him to.

Now we come to Ash's Chthonian lineage. How could he be a Chthonian when neither of his parents were? Are we sure Apollymi isn't a Chthonian herself? According to Apollo (One Silent Night, page 8) "[Chthonians:] alone can kill us [gods:] without destroying the universe and return our essence to the primary source that birthed us."
Notice that the universe wasn't destroyed when Apollymi single-handedly snuffed the entire Atlantean Parthenon in Acheron.

My half-human half-Charonte take on things is explained in one of the above posts.

Now, about the free pass to Neratiti...It can be explained with the whole big daddy of the Chthonians thing, maybe Savitar lets all the remaining members of the Chthonian race come to his island, we just don't know it...And maybe it also has something to do with getting into Apollymi's good graces.
Ya know, get to the mom through her baby. Maybe he figures with him tutoring him (also at her request!), saving his butt, protecting the people Ash holds dear, Apollymi is bound to soften sometime.

Whew, this was one heck of a post...I'm done, though.

Ohhhh, I had the "huh?" moment when Appolymi destroyed the Atlantean pantheon, thinking she shouldn't be able to do that without major repercussions, and then somehow let it slip my mind! Aack! And if she IS chthonian, that would also explain Savitar's deeper connection with her.

I'm guessing that in Savitar's arc, maybe we'll get all the chthonians' stories.

Very interesting...but maybe as Appolymi is the goddess of destruction those powers are inherent. Is there anyone comparable in the Greek spectrum? Hmn...

I'm still not sold on the charonte thing though!

:)

well ash and sav are chthonian i dont think they are related personally in any way shape or form. but i do think there was something with ash's mom and sav since their hatred of each other is far too personal.

I knew it!!! I knew it!!! Apollymi is just WAY too strong to be a mere god. She must be higher up in the foodchain. Even Savitar is weaker than her. I am sure she is much more than a god, only the primal powers can out maneuver her.
As for Acheron being Chthonian...definately! there's no doubt about that... he isn't just a god... But i always thought he got his AWESOME harbinger powers from his mom.
And i have to agree with Michelle's theory, it's crazy enought to work... I think you're on to something Michelle... There is much more to Acheron than what was previously revealed....Even the Charonte look-a-like theory makes sense.... why is he the only one to turn blue and have horns?? no other god in the Atlantean panthon had those characteristics.
Also, Archon was a pansy. It goes against "Pansy-law" to father a child as great as Acheron.

Pansy law...lol!

LOL I also think Sav is Ash's dad! In the end of One Silent night when Nick is told he has alot in common with Ash ...the half human thing. Archon is definately not his dad!

And if that is so... the Fates didnt even know!!!

Hm, Ive been thinking about this a lot lately. I was driving home from shopping and I started thinking about Ash. I'm thinking more and more that Savitar could indeed be his father. Perhaps that's why Sav decided to take Ash under his wing you know? Sav seems to help him out a lot. :)

Muah hah hah hah!!

I have no idea if I'll be proven right, but it's great to hear all your thoughts on it!

At the very, very least, he ain't Archon's.

The speculations are insane!!

By the way, what exactly is Savitar?

He's Chthonion, but I suspect he's a hell of a lot more than just that.

Like Ash's father. LOL! Ugh, I really should get back into my DH books. Everytime I pick them up to read I always read the first 8 books then put them away. I should read from Devil May Cry and get all that info stuffed into my brain but for some reason I'm just in-love with SK's earlier works.

You know, that's a very good and convincing theory! Holy crap, you had me screaming for a bit there. That could be a possibility. I mean Savitar and Apollymi together would be great too. Savitar's book has to be written! I mean god, he is such a mystery! I used to think Acheron was confusing, but hell. Savitar puts the "ache" in the word "headache".

I like that idea too. Savitar being Acheron's father? Cool.

Wow now that would be really interesting.

I was thinking about Ash being half-Charonte and maybe Apollymi is half-Charonte too. It had to come from somewhere and maybe one of her parents was a Charonte demon and that's why she holds power over the Charonte and why she's always with them. And I just remembered that in Acheron's book Apollymi told Xiamara, Simi's mother, that she was her sister and not her master.

I don't think that Savitar is Ash's father in the least. However, I do have my own theory as to who Savitar really is...

I think that Savitar may be Ash's GRANDFATHER for two reasons:

1. In Sherrilyn Kenyon's, Unleash the Night, Savitar states at the omegrion meeting that he, "made chaos from order and order from chaos."

2. On Sherrilyn's website, Archon and Apollymi's profiles state that they were both fathered by Chaos (also meaning they are half-brother and sister...ew).

One plus one equals two people.

If Savitar "made order from CHAOS and CHAOS from order" and both of Ash's parents were fathered from CHAOS then it seems justifiable that Savitar is Ash's grandfather. This would also explain Ash's Chthonian roots since Savitar is a Chthonian and Savitar's seeming affection for Ash.

Therefore, maybe Savitar and Apollymi are so chummy NOT because they are lovers, but because they are father and daughter. Why else would Savitar work so hard to keep Apollymi from the other Chthonian's wrath after she annihilated her whole pantheon? Why else would he go to Ash to teach him how to weild his powers?

What do you guys think? Could Savitar be Ash's grandfather?

p.s. I apologize if someone has already posted this conclusion.

I don't understand the Chaos part, could you explain it more?

wow that is interesting. I like it. there is definately something between savitar and apollymi. I did think at first lovers but now that you say they were brother and sister... grandfather makes good sense.

Michelle M. wrote: "My Savitar Theory

I've thought about this A LOT.

A sick and obsessive amount, really...

And I haven't seen the theory mentioned elsewhere.

I think Savitar is Ash's dad.

The interac..."

Wow Michelle, that's actually very well thought out, and to be truthful, but I'm not sure if that's possible, since I'm pretty sure Sherri noted specifically that Archon was Acheron's dad...but then again, your logic really does make sense. Definitely something to ponder.

I have a possibly stoopid question: are the Dark Hunters vampires? I thought they had fangs back in the beginning but now I'm not so sure . . . .

yes the DH are vampires with fangs but they dont drink blood

Vivi wrote: "I don't understand the Chaos part, could you explain it more?"

Chaos is one of the primoridal powers that created the universe.

I was also wondering if Savitar was Appollymi father or father in law (if FIL it would allow for the possiblity of them getting together since there would be no blood tying them together). Even though he wasn't so great I do think Archon was Ash's father but I always think of Savitar as his godfather (in both senses of the word).

Ashley, I like your theory!

On the Savitar being Ash's grandfather, I think that's easily more likely than being his father. Either way, it's going to be very interesting to see the result in the end.

In one of the books, (it might be Acheron, can't quiter remember) Savitar's eyes are seen changing multiple colors, I believe from blue, to silver to purple. He was speaking of Acheron at the time, which either means he was seeing Ash's future or could in fact be related to him and Appollymi.

Also, in Bad Moon Rising, more than just Savitar is seen on his home. He has a meeting where Vane, Fang, and Amy (as far as I can remember) were there to decide on the fate of Sanctuary. Later, Thorn, which turns out to be Lucifer's son (another interesting twist) is seen being Fang's so-called executioner. I don't think Savitar likes people to come to his home unless it will serve a greater purpose toward his destiny.

ok i agree with small parts of some of you guys about who savitar is. well we know he is a chthonian. and i forgot what book its in maybe stryker's book it was said that the chthonians are known as the mortal gods.so we know sav is or spent some time as a human.(with that being said if a chthonian can kill a god without harming the universe why is it that ash cant kill apollo if he is half chthonian? also if anyone has read no mercy was it just me or did ash seem jealous when he found out artemis is sleeping with nick? maybe he still loves her)sorry to get off topic but back to sav. i think ash is his nephew.if you remember when apollymi went into kalosis,it was stated it was where her brother ruled. it was also said that in kalosis apollymi could destroy archon. and did you notice not one atlantean god followed her down in kalosis.surly if he brother ruled there he would of came for ash and tried to kill him. and when she killed the atlantean gods it was never said that she killed her brother. nor did it say what type of god wa he. which makes me believe he wasnt there during that time spand.and it was stated during that period the chthonians was at war.so if you put to and to together then that missing brother could of been savitar. apollymi could be mad at him for him not helping her with the situation just because ash is his nephew.like how can you not help your blood.and maybe just maybe i dont know for sure but ash is part charonte demon because the atlantean gods made them.so apollymi's offspring could be a charonte.and that whole acrhon is a pansy thing i dont know about that. his children are the fates lets remember if they anit get jealous of ash they wouldnt of cursed ash to be the final fate.so without them ash wouldnt even have the powers he does.eventho i dont agree with killing your own son,he was trying to save his life.he had a big ego;he was the king of the gods how dare his son supass him. for that alone he is a pansy.but hes not a weakling.im sorry for a long post my mind kept going and going with ideas

Rocket, I thought Ash was upset on Nick's behalf because he knew just what Nick would be getting himself into w/ the Bitch Goddess. And I agree, all the BIG gods seem to have BIG egos!

I agree with Cindi. He stopped loving her the moment his sister died with his nephew. He was upset because he knew that Nick is now on the same position he used to be. Nick will have to learn the hard way what a mistake that was.

I read that Savitar only cared for 3 people, and I was wondering who they were?

I think it's Acheron, Apollymi, and Simi.

What do you guys think?

I would say that is about right. Though i also think he really cares about the Weres too, he just doesn't show it.LOL

Very late to the dicussion and have to say I loved reading all the varioius posts about Savitar on here, along with the other characters. I have to say that my theory is that possibly Apollymi and Thorn may have had something going on in the past to which Savitar was not really pleased about. Cause as we know that Thorn and Sav don't have the best of friendships. And how he likes to change other's destinies and stuff. Same does Apollymi and Sav really does not like when others do that. So that is likely why Sav and Apollymi never got along. But I never really considered Sav to be Ash's dad though. I mean they are friends and all that but Sav is a bit too afraid of love I think. That is possibly why he says it destroys things. I do think he may have some feelings for Apollymi too but cause he knows how spontaneous she can be, he doesn't want to go there with her cause of the fact that if he does go there she will do something spontaneous and destroy everything. Not only that but he likely knows about the fact that because she swore to destroy the world once she released, if she ever gets out then she will no doubt die if she doesn't do as she said. And that would likely destroy Sav's emotions. But I would be glad to know what he truly is though for sure.

Damn I sure enjoy reading all your theories...it will be great to finally have the answers

Oh and I know this is supposed to be a Savitar spoiler/theory board. And I don't mean to hijack it, but as I'm still learning my way around the site I wasn't really sure where to post it. But I was curious to know any one else considered the possibility that the reason Ash nearly allows Simi to get away with murder(figuratively) through out the books is not just because she is his daughter and that she cares for him so much. But because of the fact that the part of himself that is half charonte demon might actually be submissive to Simi as his Katika? I ask cause in Xypher's book where we met Xedrix and Kerryna, we learned from Xypher that the Charontes are a Matriarchial (spelling?) race and the males defer to the females more often than not. So it had dawned on me a couple of days ago that this might be why Ash is so willing to allow Simi does what she wants save for get into any real danger as it was mentioned in One Silent Night from Menyara that Ash was half Charonte demon and God. Oh and in case this is hijacking the thread too much or reveals too many spoilers for someone I can move this to the questions section.

The Flooze (Michelle M.) wrote: "Yeah, but that wouldn't explain him being half-Charonte. Power exchange is one thing. Being blue with horns is something quite different! I think it's too extreme to be just a result of his connect..."

I think Apollymi may have had an affair with one of the Charontes after the fates were born. I mean they did say in Acheron's book that she did accept Archon's bastard children as she couldn't have her own. But I think once the fates were born that was the straw that broke the camel's back. And so she got fed up enough to have a private affair that none of the other Gods knew about. And as we know Apollymi can be rather secretive on her own and could have still had sex with Archon so that he wouldn't be the wiser or even question her about her infidelity.

Or if he did know that Apollymi had an affair, he likely didn't have the guts to question her about it. As it was said that he feared her anyway so that is likely why he didn't say anything about where the baby came from too. But I did notice not once did he claim Acheron when Apollymi was pregnant with him. Like he didn't say anything along the lines of our son has to be sacrificed for the good of the panthenon. So I have a feeling he already knew that Ash wasn't his from the get go.

And yes I do agree with you about the fact that just because Xiamara might have given Ash some of her powers. That really had nothing to do with him being blue like he was. I mean when Apollymi cut him out of her stomach it said that he was blue already. So there was nothing really human looking about him in the first place. Along with the black horns and black lips too, that doesn't really come from an exchange I don't believe.

Vivi wrote: "I was thinking about Ash being half-Charonte and maybe Apollymi is half-Charonte too. It had to come from somewhere and maybe one of her parents was a Charonte demon and that's why she holds power..."

Apollymi said that Simi's mom was her sister because they were friends before the Atlanteans enslaved or controlled the Charontes. So it was like a best friend/sisterhood thing. But that is the mystery in and of itself as no one really knows how the Atlanteans were able to control or win against the Charontes as they are a pretty strong race of demons. So I think maybe the Atlanteans went to Apollymi to make a plea with her to control the Charontes and keep them from taking over their panthenon as she is the strongest of them all. To which I believe Apollymi agreed to but in return she set up some type of agreement with Simi's mom where Apollymi would provide refuge for the charonte demons if she got to have sex with one of them to concieve a child. And as I think it was said in Acheron's book Simi's mom was one of the leaders of the rest of the Charonte demons/army. So I can see this being a possibility as to why Ash is half Charonte.