Daily Diary discussion

"It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages."
— Friedrich Nietzsche

What do you think of this quote?

"It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages." I agree 110% with this quote... Love is not our problem at all, we love each other more than words can describe. More friendship and "paling around" would be nice, too.

Marriage is a waste of time without friendship. That is all that is left when the 'love' runs out (the romantic slushy shit). I think 'love' is an over-used word anyway. The only unconditional love is that between a parent and child. Love between a man and a woman is really an amalgam of other things....respect, loyalty, friendship, lust (!) and trust. I woke up one morning with a realisation that I didn't 'love' my husband any more (he lost my trust and respect for one reason and another) and that I didn't even like him. I felt so guilty that I staggered on in the marriage for 5 more years before our children asked why we were wasting our time and our lives. The sense of relief for both of us was huge when we decided to split. If I ever marry again it will not be for 'love' but for friendship and the other qualities I listed above.

I agree....most marriages I've observed to be great and longlasting are between for the most part really close/best friends. :)

I agree too. I want to someday marry someone who was at the time my BEST friend, not someone I met on eHarmony, you know? I think, sometimes (and correct me if I'm wrong) couples marry because they only LOVE each other, so to speak and not because they're great friends.

I don't agree with you Halle
How can a person love another and marry that person and still not be a friend ? I don't understand you
I think most ppl do not know the meaning of love and friendship when it comes to marriege
Most marry just becoz they have to or for other reasons
But for an example my parents were real good friends before they married and they are still good friends and what ever the problem that comes they do not consider devorce as an option which means they still love each other !

Shenya...it IS possible to marry someone without liking them (it happened to me - see post above)....the trouble is that it can be too easy to confuse 'love' and lust!!! Especially if you are under 30! And never underestimate a woman's biological clock.

Debbie,
The trick is finding the balance between love, romance and friendship. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. I had one marriage similar to yours, we were never friends. It lasted too long and I was determined to never marry again. Then real love, the kind you dream about when you're a young girl, came along. We were best friends but also had the love and romance (btw, I never consider romance to be slushy shit...I love it!). Unfortunately, the fairytale ended when he died suddenly. But in the meantime we both realized that the love you read about, see in movies, hear about in songs is all real, that there really are people who love like that. So, Deb, don't dismiss it, you never know when that right one who you can be best friends with and have the romantic love with drops in front of you. It will restore your faith in relationships.

You must feel so cheated! You were very lucky.....
I know it can happen....my parents had a marriage like that. I am probably such a cynic now that I would put anyone off!!!

Nietzsche? Nietzsche is dead. God said so.

Not sure if i am off on a tangent here, but this is a theory on relationships that makes sense to me: Sternberg’s triangular theory of love — includes the 3 components of passion, intimacy, and commitment. Based on which side(s) of the triangle are present in any given relationship, Sternberg defines the following categories of relationships:

nonlove — the absence of Sternberg’s three components of love; what we feel in casual relationships

friendship — what we experience when just the intimacy component of Sternberg’s theory of love is present

infatuation — what we experience when just the passion component of Sternberg’s theory of love is present

empty love — the presence of Sternberg’s love component of commitment without passion and intimacy; often characteristic of a long-term, static relationship

companionate love — the presence of Sternberg’s love components of intimacy and commitment but without passion; often characteristic of happy couples who have been together for a long time

fatuous love — the presence of Sternberg’s love components of passion and commitment but without intimacy; often characteristic of whirlwind courtships

romantic love — the presence of Sternberg’s love components of passion and intimacy but without commitment

consummate love — when all three components of Sternberg’s theory of love are present: passion, intimacy, and commitment

It sounds really complicated, but kind of makes sense to me.

I guess consummate love is not easy to come by...

Newengland - Sternberg's still alive, postulating theories on stuff like intelligence and emotions, but to my knowledge has yet to start on issues of morality and religion!

Newengland.....re "God said so"...hahahahahahahahaha!

Karen and Debbie - I admire your honesty and guts. It takes a lot to share your personal experiences, with strangers and even with friends. Its easier to hide under the comfortable blankets of theories on relationships than to analyse your own!

Thanks, Prabha. I rarely hide behind much, which isn't always a good thing. :-)

Debbie...I'm not sure that I feel cheated, just sad and happy all mixed together. I try to go with the Dr. Seuss quote, "Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." Not always easy, but well worth trying.

Thanks Prabha...it is sometimes easier to share with strangers! I don't hide behind much either....a little make-up and some encroaching 'curmudgeonliness'...or the female equivalent thereof!

Hey Ed,

How about throwing another quote out here to get a conversation going? That was very interesting.

I am not a fan of Nietzsche, but I do have to agree with the quote. My husband and I enjoy being with each other and likeing each other is a big key in long marriges.

I also agree with the quote. But, for those who marry for romantic love, time and working out problems together can create or strengthen the friendship that was there. I can't imagine loving a person without feeling they were good friends, no matter where you met them, but true friendship is tested by coming through trials together.

I know there are so many instances where divorce is the best answer, but I believe that in some cases, people are just too lazy to work through the problems when they occur, which is sad, because they could end up stronger for it.

There just aren't any easy answers.

I loved reading these responses to the quote from Nietzsche. It is so difficult to define what makes a marriage - every individual is looking for something different, looking to fulfil their innermost desire for love and acceptance. For me a good marriage is a relationship that sustains two people through passion, love, lust, sorrow, friendship ----all the highs, lows and boring bits of life - till death do us part.

I don't think much of the quote's validity
even some of the best of friendships can and do end unhappily

I like the fact that You can't know whether a marriage will work out happily

adds to the excitement of making committments

I don't know who said it but I think the quote that

MARRIAGE IS THE RESULT OF HOPE OVERCOMING EXPERIENCE (OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT)

makes sense when 50% of marriages end in divorce