The Pickwick Club discussion

Dear Pickwickians,

this week I am opening the new thread because Kim agreed to switch threads as my daughter will be baptized next Sunday, which will not leave me a lot of time for other things what with the major part of the family being here and some of them even coming on Friday already and staying here for some days.

Chapter 51 is named “The Beginning of a Longer Journey”, and we can understand this in two ways. The chapter is set on the day following Emily and Mr. Peggotty’s reunion, and Mr. Peggotty is coming to David’s house in order to tell him the story of Emily’s escape. If it had not been for a young Italian woman, who gave Emily shelter and food for several weeks (?) although she knew that she had a “fallen woman” before her, Emily would probably never have been able to find her way back to England but died from a fever. In telling his story, Mr. Peggotty often uses allusions to the Bible, as when he refers to the “dust our Saviour wrote in with his blessed hand” – no doubt because in John 8, 6 it is said that Jesus started writing in the dust when they brought the adulteress before Him and when they asked Him what to do, referring to Moses, He finally said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” This way, Mr. Peggotty might suggest that there are people who dealt with Emily in a true Christian spirit. I am not very well-versed in the Bible but I noticed some other passages in Mr. Peggotty’s story where there are allusions to the Bible, one of them being

”’What they done, is laid up wheer neither moth or rust doth corrupt, and wheer thieves do not break through or steal. Mas’r Davy, it’ll outlast all the treasure in the wureld.’”

This is an allusion to the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 6, 19-21, which refers to Christian dealings laying up treasures in Heaven. Then Martha seems to likened to Jesus in a way, when she says to Emily, “’Rise up from worse than death, and come with me!’” Even the following sentence, “Them belonging to the house would have stopped her, but they might as soon have stopped the sea” reminded me of Jesus stopping the waves and the storm, and Martha’s cry “Stand away from me” put Matthew 4, 10 – “Get thee hence, Satan” – into my mind, some more allusions to Jesus. It’s also quite noteworthy that Mr. Peggotty’s account of Emily’s story is relatively free from the influence of his dialect, probably because otherwise it would spoil the dramatic effect of the story and not live up to its seriousness.

I came across another passage I found noteworthy:

”He saw everything he related. It passed before him, as he spoke, so vividly, that, in the intensity of his earnestness, he presented what he described to me, with greater distinctness than I can express. I can hardly believe, writing now long afterwards, but that I was actually present in these scenes; they are impressed upon me with such an astonishing air of fidelity.”

Maybe we can see this as another passage showing how difficult Dickens found it to come to terms with the limitations of the first person perspective: After all he longs to give a detailed description of events that the narrator got at third hand, i.e. Mr. Peggotty is telling him what Emily had told Mr. Peggotty, and David is writing it down after many, many years.

Then there was a question came haunting me to which I have not found a satisfactory answer, and it came when I read these words:

”'It was a gleam of light upon me, Trot,' said my aunt, drying her eyes, 'when I formed the resolution of being godmother to your sister Betsey Trotwood, who disappointed me; but, next to that, hardly anything would have given me greater pleasure, than to be godmother to that good young creature's baby!'
Mr. Peggotty nodded his understanding of my aunt's feelings, but could not trust himself with any verbal reference to the subject of her commendation. We all remained silent, and occupied with our own reflections (my aunt drying her eyes, and now sobbing convulsively, and now laughing and calling herself a fool); until I spoke.”

Later – after Mr. Peggotty has told David and his aunt about their resolution to emigrate to Australia – I found this passage:

”'Em'ly,' he continued, 'will keep along with me—poor child, she's sore in need of peace and rest!—until such time as we goes upon our voyage. She'll work at them clothes, as must be made; and I hope her troubles will begin to seem longer ago than they was, wen she finds herself once more by her rough but loving uncle.'”

Putting these two underlined passages together made me think that maybe Emily is with child, but I am not sure. Dickens would not have been able to give any more direct hints at a child born out of wedlock, would he?

The first longer journey alluded to in the title of the chapter is definitely that of Mr. Peggotty and Little Emily, whereas there also are several hints at Dora’s journey out of this life. Nevertheless David accompanies Mr. Peggotty to Yarmouth once more, where he also meets Mr. Omer, who has grown old and frail but bears it well. Once again, the journey motif is taken up, this time by Mr. Omer, the undertaker, who says,

”’'because, sir, the way I look at it is, that we are all drawing on to the bottom of the hill, whatever age we are, on account of time never standing still for a single moment. So let us always do a kindness, and be over-rejoiced. To be sure!'“

when he explains why he is eager to do something for Martha. David later has a talk with Ham, who seems to have come round to the idea that by pressing his affection on Emily, he is at least partly responsible for what has happened. Whereas he, of course, will not accompany his uncle to Australia, Mrs. Gummidge entreats Mr. Peggotty not to leave her behind but to take her with him, and on being granted her wish, Mrs. Gummidge finally looks happy!

Chapter 52, „I Assist at an Explosion“, finally brings us a confrontation we have all been waiting for: The moment Mr. Micawber had alluded to has finally come, and David, Traddles, Mr. Dick as well as Aunt Betsey, go to Canterbury as they have been required. Poor Dora has asked them all to go there and been quite firm about none of them staying behind with her.

To cut a long story – as Mr. Micawber is telling it – short, Mr. Micawber exposes Uriah Heep as the scoundrel he really is, and – what is more – he also makes it clear that he has written evidence of his accusations, such as signatures Uriah has forged in the process of embezzling money and of incriminating Mr. Wickfield. Mr. Micawber could not forego the pleasure of reading out a kind of memorandum, which he relishes very much. Uriah Heep, seeing that he has been cornered and that there is hardly any way of escaping justice, finally drops the mask of humility – to his mother’s great alarm – and threatens those present by hinting that he has some of them under the harrow and that he will have his revenge on them before long. In this context, David, once again, reveals his sheer detest for Uriah:

”Though I had long known that his servility was false, and all his pretences knavish and hollow, I had had no adequate conception of the extent of his hypocrisy, until I now saw him with his mask off. The suddenness with which he dropped it, when he perceived that it was useless to him; the malice, insolence, and hatred, he revealed; the leer with which he exulted, even at this moment, in the evil he had done—all this time being desperate too, and at his wits' end for the means of getting the better of us—though perfectly consistent with the experience I had of him, at first took even me by surprise, who had known him so long, and disliked him so heartily.”

Uriah’s penchant to do evil for the sake of doing evil, and not only to enrich himself, seems dominant here, and was it not Peter, who once likened him to “honest” Iago? In the face of Uriah’s wickedness, David thinks of what Agnes had to go through and says,

“I was shocked by the mere thought of her having lived, an hour, within sight of such a man.

Here, however, he should, as we say in German, touch his own nose because he has known of Agnes’s precarious situation and even seen Uriah boast of his power over the Wickfields for such a long time without really doing anything about it.

I liked the following passage, though, because it shows that even the Heeps are human beings with human feelings:

“'But I love you, Ury,' cried Mrs. Heep. And I have no doubt she did; or that he loved her, however strange it may appear; though, to be sure, they were a congenial couple. 'And I can't bear to hear you provoking the gentlemen, and endangering of yourself more. I told the gentleman at first, when he told me upstairs it was come to light, that I would answer for your being umble, and making amends. Oh, see how umble I am, gentlemen, and don't mind him!'”
Then there is this:

”Her son sat her down in his chair; and, standing sulkily by her, holding her arm with his hand, but not rudely, […]”

Why it should be strange, though, that a mother should love her own son, I cannot see.

Finally it becomes clear that Uriah Heep will have to make amends for all he has done – e.g. by restoring what he has stolen and embezzled to his victims, amongst others to Aunt Betsey. Aunt Betsey also suggests to Mr. Micawber joining the Peggottys and going to Australia, an idea Micawber immediately regards as one he has entertained for quite a long time. I also noticed that Master Micawber is a rather sullen and soured young man – probably Micawber’s carelessness in financial things is a source of mirth only to the reader and not so much to his children?

Two other quotations I found remarkable are:

“[…] I felt devoutly thankful for the miseries of my younger days which had brought me to the knowledge of Mr. Micawber.”

Does this mean that Dickens finally wants to stress his having a point in having introduced Micawber into the story? We were all wondering to what purpose this rambling character kept reappearing.

Then there is the following description hinting again at the motif of time going by:

”Early in the morning, I sauntered through the dear old tranquil streets, and again mingled with the shadows of the venerable gateways and churches. The rooks were sailing about the cathedral towers; and the towers themselves, overlooking many a long unaltered mile of the rich country and its pleasant streams, were cutting the bright morning air, as if there were no such thing as change on earth. Yet the bells, when they sounded, told me sorrowfully of change in everything; told me of their own age, and my pretty Dora's youth; and of the many, never old, who had lived and loved and died, while the reverberations of the bells had hummed through the rusty armour of the Black Prince hanging up within, and, motes upon the deep of Time, had lost themselves in air, as circles do in water.
I looked at the old house from the corner of the street, but did not go nearer to it, lest, being observed, I might unwittingly do any harm to the design I had come to aid. The early sun was striking edgewise on its gables and lattice-windows, touching them with gold; and some beams of its old peace seemed to touch my heart.
I strolled into the country for an hour or so, and then returned by the main street, which in the interval had shaken off its last night's sleep. Among those who were stirring in the shops, I saw my ancient enemy the butcher, now advanced to top-boots and a baby, and in business for himself. He was nursing the baby, and appeared to be a benignant member of society.”

This lengthy excursion does not seem important in itself, although it is beautiful, but it helps conjure up the mood of melancholy that must hang over somebody who is looking back at his life.

And it leads on to Chapter 53, „Another Retrospect“ … This is a very sad chapter dealing with the demise of David’s wife Dora – and its sadness is yet more proof of Dickens’s brilliancy as a writer. There is only one detail I found a little bit cheesy, namely – can you guess? (view spoiler)[Jip’s dying at the same moment Dora does (hide spoiler)].

I found it very moving, however, to see Dora so changed and matured in the face of death. Her old misgivings of being really loved by David seem to come back with a vengeance, and then there is this passage in which she suddenly sees it all:

” 'I was very happy, very. But, as years went on, my dear boy would have wearied of his child-wife. She would have been less and less a companion for him. He would have been more and more sensible of what was wanting in his home. She wouldn't have improved. It is better as it is.'
'Oh, Dora, dearest, dearest, do not speak to me so. Every word seems a reproach!’”

Although Dora replies that she does not mean her words to be a reproach, I could not help thinking that David is reproaching himself here because her words voice his very thoughts, and that he is somehow feeling guilty of her death. This also becomes clear in a later passage:

”I sit down by the fire, thinking with a blind remorse of all those secret feelings I have nourished since my marriage. I think of every little trifle between me and Dora, and feel the truth, that trifles make the sum of life. Ever rising from the sea of my remembrance, is the image of the dear child as I knew her first, graced by my young love, and by her own, with every fascination wherein such love is rich. Would it, indeed, have been better if we had loved each other as a boy and a girl, and forgotten it? Undisciplined heart, reply!“

Then there is another question that remains yet open: What might Dora have said to Agnes when her friend visited her on her deathbed?

Tristram

First, I wish you, your wife and family, and, most importantly, your baby daughter love and good will on her baptism. Congratulations and best wishes. Enjoy the day.

The excitement and no doubt flurry of this week's preparations have not interfered with your posting. Your comments on Ch 51 regarding Emily and the importance of the title and the allusions to The Bible have sent me back to the chapter for another read : -)

Tristram wrote: " limitations of the first person perspective: After all he longs to give a detailed description of events that the narrator got at third hand, i.e. Mr. Peggotty is telling him what Emily had told Mr. Peggotty, and David is writing it down after many, many years."

Tristram, I also thought of the first person perspective limitations when I read this part. Thanks to you pointing out the limitations in the previous week's section, I was a bit more aware of it.

Putting these two underlined passages together made me think that maybe Emily is with child, but I am not sure. Dickens would not have been able to give any more direct hints at a child born out of wedlock, would he?

I was also confused by the passage where Aunt Betsey mentions being godmother and wondered if Emily was with child. When I came upon the second passage you underlined, Tristram, it didn't occur to me that she was making baby clothes, but it does seem like the more likely explanation. I had assumed Emily was making clothes for herself to have once she was in Australia, but that didn't make any sense to me.

I also wondered why they had to go all the way to Australia to start a new life. But, if Emily is pregnant, I guess even being in Europe was too much of a danger of being found out that she had had a child out of wedlock? So Australia is the safest choice - no worries about running into previous acquaintances?

Mrs. Gummidge entreats Mr. Peggotty not to leave her behind but to take her with him, and on being granted her wish, Mrs. Gummidge finally looks happy!

I was wondering what the original plan was for Mrs. Gummidge's future while they were packing up the boat's furnishings. I don't remember where she would be living mentioned before so I assumed she would stay on at the boat, but then suddenly the boat was bare. So, it is a good thing she is to also voyage to Australia, otherwise where else would she have gone?

Tristram wrote: " „I Assist at an Explosion“, finally brings us a confrontation we have all been waiting for: The moment Mr. Micawber had alluded to has finally come, and David, Traddles, Mr. Dick as well as Aunt Betsey, go to Canterbury as they have been required."

I confess, I must have missed something in the previous week's readings because I was confused as to why they were meeting Mr. Micawber and how that had come about. I'm guessing the meeting must have been generated from correspondence that occurred after the very confusing letter that David received from Mr. Micawber.

To cut a long story – as Mr. Micawber is telling it – short, Mr. Micawber exposes Uriah Heep as the scoundrel he really is...

Yes, this was a long story.... Although I was excited to see the evil Heep called out, I find Mr. Micawber's long winding way of telling the story a bit tedious.

Aunt Betsey also suggests to Mr. Micawber joining the Peggottys and going to Australia, an idea Micawber immediately regards as one he has entertained for quite a long time.

This idea felt like it came out of left field for me. I had to think back to the relationship of the Micawbers to Mr. Peggoty and Emily. I can't remember specifically when and how they had made each others acquaintance. Surely they have and I am just forgetting, otherwise the idea of this group of people traveling together to another country to start a new life would seem very odd.

My initial thought in the Micawbers accompanying Mr. Peggoty and Emily to Australia was that I hope Mr. Micawber is not a hinderance to Mr. Peggoty in starting his new life since Mr. Micawber obviously has a very poor track record in being able to find a position which enables him to support his family financially. On the other hand, Mr. Peggoty is a person who appears to be very hardy and able to weather the storm, so perhaps he will have a positive influence on Mr. Micawber in beginning a new life on the right foot.

Tristram wrote: "There is only one detail I found a little bit cheesy, namely – can you guess?"

Ha! Yes, this scene is a little cheesy, but at the time I read it I did feel my heartstrings tugged at just a bit. It all works out for the best though, I think, since I can't imagine David living on with an old Jip by his side acting as a reminder to his poor Dora. Especially since Jip was a changed dog from his former excited barking self, it would have been a sad state for David to have Dora's dog, yet a dog who had changed from what he had been in happier times.

Although Dora replies that she does not mean her words to be a reproach, I could not help thinking that David is reproaching himself here because her words voice his very thoughts, and that he is somehow feeling guilty of her death

Yes, this was a sad scene, and I'm glad that after all the childishness ways Dora had lived during marriage, that upon her deathbed she had grown up enough to be able to look back upon their lives together and see the fault of Dora and David marrying, that they would have been better off as childhood lovers and then parted ways. I was glad for her putting into words what David was thinking, and to hopefully relieve himself of some of his guilt.

As to calling in Agnes, I couldn't help but think that Dora was to tell her to take good care of David, and even go so far as to suggest to her that she and David would make a good pair as husband and wife, that Dora would give them her blessing.

Tristram, I also congratulate you on your daughter's baptism next Sunday. Have a nice visit with all your family next week. :)

Ch 51

I never even considered the possibility of Emily being with child. Tristram's highlighted passages certainly can be interpreted in more than one way. Since Ham is not going to Australia could her pregnancy be yet another reason beyond her running away with Steerforth? Perhaps there will be more clues later in the novel.

There certainly are many Christian references and allusions in this chapter. When we tie those to earlier events that feature Peggotty his character is certainly meant to be seen as reflective of what a kind, caring, sympathetic and empathetic person he is, and readers should emulate.

I got an eerie sense of foreboding when David comments " I thought of Steerforth ... Of his being near at hand and liable to be met at any turn." Dickens must do something with this plot line to tie up loose ends. Here, he turns up the expectations and tension for his readers.

Peter wrote: "Ch 51

I never even considered the possibility of Emily being with child. Tristram's highlighted passages certainly can be interpreted in more than one way. Since Ham is not going to Australia cou..."

I too never considered the possibility of Emily being pregnant. I've read the book before and if she is I either missed it or I've forgotten it - either one of these things would be perfectly normal for me - but now that Tristram reminded me of this passage I do remember being confused about what it could mean:

”'It was a gleam of light upon me, Trot,' said my aunt, drying her eyes, 'when I formed the resolution of being godmother to your sister Betsey Trotwood, who disappointed me; but, next to that, hardly anything would have given me greater pleasure, than to be godmother to that good young creature's baby!'
Mr. Peggotty nodded his understanding of my aunt's feelings, but could not trust himself with any verbal reference to the subject of her commendation."

What else could Miss Betsey have meant by that?

Kim wrote: "Peter wrote: "Ch 51

I never even considered the possibility of Emily being with child. Tristram's highlighted passages certainly can be interpreted in more than one way. Since Ham is not going to..."

I have been thinking about this all afternoon too. Given the fact that Dora and David, who are married, and David's the narrator as well, lose a child in birth and a reader has to be quick and perceptive upon first reading to catch the comment ( I missed the reference completely my first reading) it is probable that a baby born under the circumstances of Emily would not be proclaimed too obviously.

Kim wrote: "My child-wife's old companion

Chapter 53

Commentary:

According to J. A. Hammerton (1910), the moment that Phiz has realized as the culmination of the Dora plot follows this:

"More restless than..."

Once again, an interesting analysis of the Phiz illustration. Like you Kim, some of the small details totally escape my eyes. When I enlarge the illustration I still can't see everything being described ( or for that matter understand the explanation). I do get the small chair besides David's being empty, and since the guitar rests upon the chair, suggests that it is Dora's chair. I do see the broken guitar string.

The picture on the wall over Agnes's shoulder I presume would be Dora. Thus, David's wife is watching over David from the picture and Agnes is watching over David in person. The fact that these women are presented as being next to one another offers suggestive possibilities to our narrative.

Thanks again for posting the illustrations Kim.

Peter wrote: "Tristram

First, I wish you, your wife and family, and, most importantly, your baby daughter love and good will on her baptism. Congratulations and best wishes. Enjoy the day.

The excitement and ..."

Thank you, Peter! I am still busy preparing a little peroration for the occasion ;-) and Mr. Micawber seems a shining example of wordiness to me.

Linda wrote: "Tristram, I also congratulate you on your daughter's baptism next Sunday. Have a nice visit with all your family next week. :)"

Thanks, Linda! :-)

Thanks from me, too, Kim, for the illustrations! I am really impressed with how Phiz manages to imbue his illustration of Mr. Micawber's homecoming with a sense of dynamics: the whole picture seems to be alive and teeming with motion. As Linda did, I wondered when Mr. Micawber should ever have met Mr. Peggotty before and I couldn't remember any occasion but probably it was a clever move on Aunt Betsey's part to harness these two men together since I am sure that with Mr. Peggotty around, Mr. Micawber will not be led astry too easily.

I did not remember that Mr. Moddle went to Australia but apparently Dickens had a much more optimistic view of Australia than he had of America because why else would he have some of the good guys go to Australia at the very end of the novel? They are bound to succeed there because their plot strands have nearly reached their end and they must have their just rewards. Coming to think of it, there is another later Dickens novel in which emigration to Australia will be presented in a good light.

As to the Barnard illustration in message 9, for once I am a little bit disappointed with it because it lacks the sense of dynamics that is so prevalent in the illustration made by Phiz; it looks rather lame.

Linda wrote: "As to calling in Agnes, I couldn't help but think that Dora was to tell her to take good care of David, and even go so far as to suggest to her that she and David would make a good pair as husband and wife, that Dora would give them her blessing. "

That's a very good idea, Linda! This way, David need not have a bad conscience in case he decides to remarry.

Tristram wrote: "I am still busy preparing a little peroration for the occasion ;-)

Before I read any further I had to go look up the word peroration:

"the concluding part of a speech, typically intended to inspire enthusiasm in the audience."

Thanks once again for using a word I have never seen anywhere, especially in a sentence. I now know a brand new word and a brand new definition and I should remember both of them for at least twenty more minutes.

I did not remember that Mr. Moddle went to Australia

I didn't remember that either, I still don't, I remember who he is but not where he ended up but I didn't go look it up yet.

Coming to think of it, there is another later Dickens novel in which emigration to Australia will be presented in a good light.

Hmm....it's not coming to me, yet.

Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I am still busy preparing a little peroration for the occasion ;-)

Before I read any further I had to go look up the word peroration:

"the concluding part of a speech, typically intended to inspire enthusiasm in the audience.""

That's a new word for me too. Thanks Tristram, and also to Kim for actually looking up the definition.

I would be quite happy to read/hear Tristram's peroration. If I never read another word by Mr. Micawber, let alone a peroration, I will be the happiest man in all of Canada.,

Emigration to Australia ... I'm wondering if I should make a sheepish guess as to the character? : -)

Peter wrote: "If I never read another word by Mr. Micawber, let alone a peroration, I will be the happiest man in all of Canada."

I'm with you on that, Peter!

Congratulations Tristram on the baptism of your baby girl. I'm sure that it was a wonderful day! :-)

Btw, I'm nowhere near this section yet. Dragging badly behind as sickness has a habit of doing. Ho hum! It'll all be good in the end ...

Tristram wrote: "And it leads on to Chapter 53, „Another Retrospect“ … This is a very sad chapter dealing with the demise of David’s wife Dora – and its sadness is yet more proof of Dickens’s brilliancy as a writer..."

I have always puzzled over the entire relationship of David and Dora. I have read that Dora was loosely based on Dickens's first love, and realize that a good dose of humour, marital commentary and extended melodrama is good to stretch out both the chapters and the readers' excitement, but was Dora really necessary to the plot?

Have no worries, DC get a 5 star thumb's up from me, but perhaps this could also be a topic within the "general final comments" when we have completed the novel.

Hilary wrote: "Congratulations Tristram on the baptism of your baby girl. I'm sure that it was a wonderful day! :-)

Btw, I'm nowhere near this section yet. Dragging badly behind as sickness has a habit of doi..."

Hilary

Take care of yourself my friend. Surely there is a Dickensian doctor somewhere near you who can whip up a little special dram of ... well, something.

Linda wrote: "Peter wrote: "If I never read another word by Mr. Micawber, let alone a peroration, I will be the happiest man in all of Canada."

I'm with you on that, Peter!"

Thanks for your recent comments Linda. It is a scary proposition to stick one's neck out too far. Micawber, bah, humbug!

Kim wrote: "Peter wrote: "Ch 51

I never even considered the possibility of Emily being with child. Tristram's highlighted passages certainly can be interpreted in more than one way. Since Ham is not going to..."

I think Everyman had earlier suggested the possibility of Emily becoming pregnant, regarding Mrs. Steerforth's refusal to accept her. Considering she and Steerforth were together for seasons (?), it's seems likely from a practical perspective.

I agree the passage Tristram quoted of Betsey's dialogue is ambiguous, however. Although spoken to David, I interpreted it as a demonstration of her empathy toward Peggotty, in loving his niece as his own, as she has done with her nephew. At first, I took that good young creature's baby to refer to Clara & David, but the tense doesn't seem right. Then I thought she might be referring to Dora's lost baby, who could have been the niece (great-great!) she had wanted.

And congrats, Tristram, on your very real daughter's baptism!

Tristram wrote: "I did not remember that Mr. Moddle went to Australia but apparently Dickens had a much more optimistic view of Australia than he had of America because why else would he have some of the good guys go to Australia at the very end of the novel? ..."

I'm not very familiar with Dickens' biography, but I recall he was generally disappointed with his sons -- didn't he pack off a couple of them to Australia, where he hoped they would have a better chance of success? Yes, he seemed to feel Australia a better option than America :) Although his friend and associate Angela Burdett-Coutts, mentioned in the commentary Kim found (thanks once again), did fund schemes to British N. America.

Vanessa wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I did not remember that Mr. Moddle went to Australia but apparently Dickens had a much more optimistic view of Australia than he had of America because why else would he have some ..."

Vanessa

Somewhere in the deep vault of my mind I seem to recall being told that Burdett Street here in Victoria was named after Angela Burdett-Coutts because she had given money to one of the religious communities who set up here. Are you aware of any such rumours/speculations/theories/ or facts?

One of Dickens's sons ended up here in Canada and served with the Northwest Mounted Police. He fought against the forces of Louis Riel at Duck Lake. Sadly, he liked the bottle too much and met an unromantic end to his life.

Yes, fact, Peter. She was the benefactor of BC's Anglican Diocese, including the gothic Angela College (now a seniors' home?) on Burdett St. The diary of the first bishop, George Hills, is an interesting read. I think she also funded a brideship here, to forestall England's potential Marthas.

Burdett-Coutts also proposed to her decades-younger private secretary. Nice to know the opposite of the Strongs sometimes happened :)

Vanessa wrote: "Yes, fact, Peter. She was the benefactor of BC's Anglican Diocese, including the gothic Angela College (now a seniors' home?) on Burdett St. The diary of the first bishop, George Hills, is an int..."

Thanks Vanessa. I really enjoy anecdotes. Parking on Burdett so I can attend a class at the Y will never be quite the same!

Peter,

Here is some of what I found about Dickens and how he felt about his sons. Most of it is taken from letters he had written to various people:

"He complained that he had “brought up the largest family ever known with the smallest disposition to do anything for themselves.”

. “I think he has less fixed purpose and energy than I could have supposed possible in my son,” writes Dickens of Charley."

“I fear Sydney is much too far gone for recovery, and I begin to wish that he were honestly dead."

More letters:

"My small boy is perfectly happy at Southsea, and likes the school very much. I had the finest letter two or three days ago, from another of my boys—Frank Jeffrey—at Hamburg. In this wonderful epistle he says: "Dear papa, I write to tell you that I have given up all thoughts of being a doctor. My conviction that I shall never get over my stammering is the cause; all professions are barred against me. The only thing I should like to be is a gentleman farmer, either at the Cape, in Canada, or Australia. With my passage paid, fifteen pounds, a horse, and a rifle, I could go two or three hundred miles up country, sow grain, buy cattle, and in time be very comfortable."

"Considering the consequences of executing the little commission by the next steamer, I perceived that the first consequence of the fifteen pounds would be that he would be robbed of it—of the horse, that it would throw him—and of the rifle, that it would blow his head off; which probabilities I took the liberty of mentioning, as being against the scheme."


Another letter:

"You asked me on Christmas Eve about my children. My second daughter is going to be married in the course of the summer to Charles Collins, the brother of Wilkie Collins, the novelist. The father was one of the most famous painters of English green lanes and coast pieces. He was bred an artist; is a writer, too, and does "The Eye Witness," in "All the Year Round." He is a gentleman, accomplished, and amiable. My eldest daughter has not yet started any conveyance on the road to matrimony (that I know of); but it is likely enough that she will, as she is very agreeable and intelligent. They are both very pretty. My eldest boy, Charley, has been in Barings' house for three or four years, and is now going to Hong Kong, strongly backed up by Barings, to buy tea on his own account, as a means of forming a connection and seeing more of the practical part of a merchant's calling, before starting in London for himself. His brother Frank (Jeffrey's godson) I have just recalled from France and Germany, to come and learn business, and qualify himself to join his brother on his return from the Celestial Empire. The next boy, Sydney Smith, is designed for the navy, and is in training at Portsmouth, awaiting his nomination. He is about three foot high, with the biggest eyes ever seen, and is known in the Portsmouth parts as "Young Dickens, who can do everything."

"Another boy is at school in France; the youngest of all has a private tutor at home. I have forgotten the second in order, who is in India. He went out as ensign of a non-existent native regiment, got attached to the 42nd Highlanders, one of the finest regiments in the Queen's service; has remained with them ever since, and got made a lieutenant by the chances of the rebellious campaign, before he was eighteen. Miss Hogarth, always Miss Hogarth, is the guide, philosopher, and friend of all the party, and a very close affection exists between her and the girls. I doubt if she will ever marry. I don't know whether to be glad of it or sorry for it."

"I have laid down my pen and taken a long breath after writing this family history. I have also considered whether there are any more children, and I don't think there are. If I should remember two or three others presently, I will mention them in a postscript."


My dear Lord John Russell,

"My eldest boy is in business as an Eastern merchant in the City, and will do well if he can find continuous energy; otherwise not. My second boy is with the 42nd Highlanders in India. My third boy, a good steady fellow, is educating expressly for engineers or artillery. My fourth (this sounds like a charade), a born little sailor, is a midshipman in H.M.S. Orlando, now at Bermuda, and will make his way anywhere. Remaining two at school, elder of said remaining two very bright and clever. Georgina and Mary keeping house for me; and Francis Jeffrey (I ought to have counted him as the third boy, so we'll take him in here as number two and a half) in my office at present. Now you have the family bill of fare."


"Why did the kings in the fairy tales want children? I suppose in the weakness of the royal intellect."


To a Mr. White about his son's death:

"My poor boy was on his way home from an up-country station, on sick leave. He had been very ill, but was not so at the time. He was talking to some brother-officers in the Calcutta hospital about his preparations for home, when he suddenly became excited, had a rush of blood from the mouth, and was dead. His brother Frank would arrive out at Calcutta, expecting to see him after six years, and he would have been dead a month."

Another letter:

"Of family intelligence I have very little. Charles Collins continuing in a very poor way, and showing no signs of amendment. He and my daughter Katie went to Wiesbaden and thence to Nice, where they are now. I have strong apprehensions that he will never recover, and that she will be left a young widow. All the rest are as they were. Mary neither married nor going to be; Georgina holding them all together and perpetually corresponding with the distant ones; occasional rallyings coming off here, in which another generation begins to peep above the table. I once used to think what a horrible thing it was to be a grandfather. Finding that the calamity falls upon me without my perceiving any other change in myself, I bear it like a man."

Another:

"Charley's children are instructed from their tenderest months only to know me as "Wenerables," which they sincerely believe to be my name, and a kind of title that I have received from a grateful country."

To Charles Fechter:

"Poor Plorn is gone to Australia. It was a hard parting at the last. He seemed to me to become once more my youngest and favourite little child as the day drew near, and I did not think I could have been so shaken. You were his idol to the hour of his departure, and he asked me to tell you how much he wanted to bid you good-bye."

"Kindest love from all."

Linda wrote: "Tristram wrote: "There is only one detail I found a little bit cheesy, namely – can you guess?"

Ha! Yes, this scene is a little cheesy, but at the time I read it I did feel my heartstrings tugged..."

Peter wrote: "Ch 51

I never even considered the possibility of Emily being with child. Tristram's highlighted passages certainly can be interpreted in more than one way. Since Ham is not going to Australia cou..."

Tristram wrote: "And it leads on to Chapter 53, „Another Retrospect“ … This is a very sad chapter dealing with the demise of David’s wife Dora – and its sadness is yet more proof of Dickens’s brilliancy as a writer..."

This is a very sad chapter dealing with the demise of David’s wife Dora – and its sadness is yet more proof of Dickens’s brilliancy as a writer. There is only one detail I found a little bit cheesy, namely – can you guess?
Oh Tristram...Tristram, I loved the detail you found cheesy! I can see the cheesy aspect of it, but I "love" dogs, and for me it was perfect. In fact, I was rather livid David yelled at Jip and didn't allow him to visit with Dora in her final moments, I was left distraught...For Jip. :)

As sad as this chapter was, I felt a sense of relief for both Dora and David... She, off to a peaceful afterlife and for David to grow from grieving while moving forward. They may not have been married for long, but it felt as if it was a lifetime, to me.

Although Dora replies that she does not mean her words to be a reproach, I could not help thinking that David is reproaching himself here because her words voice his very thoughts, and that he is somehow feeling guilty of her death. This also becomes clear in a later passage:
This segment between Dora and David upon her deathbed, I felt, was the most redeeming in character for Dora. Up until this point she's been depicted as kittenish and child-like, but her words for David show me she wasn't really aloof at all... Then what was she, I don't know? She was very poignant in her delivery and the context of her statement suggested to me her child-like mentality was not accurate...In fact, she was quite womanly, mature and astute to the needs of her husband, and the deficit within him she was not fulfilling. I loved that she passed on this note, and not the pouty annoying being she was for so much of the novel.

There certainly are many Christian references and allusions in this chapter.
Many Christian references, yes, and many "Hamlet" references as well throughout the novel.

I have read that Dora was loosely based on Dickens's first love, and realize that a good dose of humour, marital commentary and extended melodrama is good to stretch out both the chapters and the readers' excitement, but was Dora really necessary to the plot?
I think she was necessary. Her presence and demise brings forth personal growth for David. His character seems to endure through life's hard lessons up close and personal before any maturation actually occurs, does it not? Dora did not end being the wife and mate he was expecting, so maybe now he'll know what to look for...I'm hoping he'll see it in Agnes?

I got an eerie sense of foreboding when David comments " I thought of Steerforth ... Of his being near at hand and liable to be met at any turn." Dickens must do something with this plot line to tie up loose ends. Here, he turns up the expectations and tension for his readers.
Yes, I have felt this way too for a while... A sense of foreboding. He must be lurking around, he must be! It's time Steerforth be brought back to the forefront, I think!

As to calling in Agnes, I couldn't help but think that Dora was to tell her to take good care of David, and even go so far as to suggest to her that she and David would make a good pair as husband and wife, that Dora would give them her blessing.
Yes, this is exactly what I thought! :) It feels right to me they would end up together. They started out as fast friends, learned to revere one another, and now hopefully they'll see their love for each other.

I also wondered why they had to go all the way to Australia to start a new life. But, if Emily is pregnant, I guess even being in Europe was too much of a danger of being found out that she had had a child out of wedlock? So Australia is the safest choice - no worries about running into previous acquaintances?
My book has a FN for Australia, Linda, here is what it says...

In 1848, the journalist Samuel Sidney produced an Australian "Handbook" recommending working-class emigration and the agricultural life in Australia; this was the background for Dickens's writing on emigration in "Household Words."

This is followed by more reference to Australia in Dickens other novels and writings.

Uriah Heep
The time has finally come upon on us where we read about Uriah Heep ..Officially not being so umble? SMH! What a great moment for Agnes, her father and David, but was anybody underwhelmed at the turn of events at all?

Kim wrote: "Peter,

Here is some of what I found about Dickens and how he felt about his sons. Most of it is taken from letters he had written to various people:

"He complained that he had “brought up the la..."

Kim

I think it would have been much better to be one of the neighbour's kids than one of Dickens's own children.

In some ways I think it is better not to know much about an author's life/biography.

Shakespeare will always remain in the wonderful world of speculation.

Peter wrote: "Thanks Vanessa. I really enjoy anecdotes. Parking on Burdett so I can attend a class at the Y will never be quite the same! "

You're welcome, Peter. I often park there too! Regarding the son who became a Mountie, a few years ago I bought a book based on his life in the NW, Eric Nichol's Dickens of the Mounted, for my father. I haven't read it myself yet.

And thank you, Kim, for all the details about Dickens' children. At least he was shaken by his son's departure to Australia! Perhaps some of them were better off on other continents -- too close for comfort, otherwise.

Vanessa wrote: "Peter wrote: "Thanks Vanessa. I really enjoy anecdotes. Parking on Burdett so I can attend a class at the Y will never be quite the same! "

You're welcome, Peter. I often park there too! Regard..."

I found the Nichol book an interesting but somewhat curious read. A daughter and father that share a love of Dickens is, well, Pickwickian. :-)

Peter wrote: "In some ways I think it is better not to know much about an author's life/biography.

Shakespeare will always remain in the wonderful world of speculation. "

And yet among the little information we have about Shakespeare, there is the bit that he only bequeathed the second best bed to his wife ;-) So probably every great man has his little shortcomings, and I could even be more cynical by saying, which I verily believe, that a man who has no shortcomings and no personal flaws might not even have the stuff in him from which greatness arises. This is true of women, too, of course.

Still, I was shocked to read - thanks again, Kim! - how callously Dickens wrote about the death of his son when at the same time he was able to make so much of the death of Little Nell or others of his characters.

Ami wrote: "I think she was necessary. Her presence and demise brings forth personal growth for David. His character seems to endure through life's hard lessons up close and personal before any maturation actually occurs, does it not? Dora did not end being the wife and mate he was expecting, so maybe now he'll know what to look for...I'm hoping he'll see it in Agnes?"

You have a point there, Ami! On the other hand, I cannot help thinking how convenient Dora's death is for the development of David's personal life story.

Ami wrote: "Oh Tristram...Tristram, I loved the detail you found cheesy! I can see the cheesy aspect of it, but I "love" dogs, and for me it was perfect. In fact, I was rather livid David yelled at Jip and didn't allow him to visit with Dora in her final moments, I was left distraught...For Jip. :)"

Still it sounds cheesy to me ... On the other hand, there seems to be one real life case recorded of a dog's dying at the same time his master did. Remember the curse of Tukankhamun? Rumour has it that when Lord Carnavon died in Egypt, his pet dog in England died at roughly the same time, but I don't know if that's true or not. Apparently the link between master and dog seems to be a trope in literature and in urban legend.

Tristram wrote: "Ami wrote: "I think she was necessary. Her presence and demise brings forth personal growth for David. His character seems to endure through life's hard lessons up close and personal before any mat..."

You know something, Tristram...We're so close to the end now, it all seems like a "convenience" as Dickens ties up all of the loose storylines. This is one thing that always plagues me in some Victorian Lit...The pacing. My perception is they start off with a bang, a good steady pace; begin to slow down and drag; and then it's a sprint till the end, it all happens so perfectly fast?

Tristram wrote: "Ami wrote: "Oh Tristram...Tristram, I loved the detail you found cheesy! I can see the cheesy aspect of it, but I "love" dogs, and for me it was perfect. In fact, I was rather livid David yelled at..."

I do recall this curse, but failed to make the connection or notice the trope ...Thank you!

Ami wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Ami wrote: "I think she was necessary. Her presence and demise brings forth personal growth for David. His character seems to endure through life's hard lessons up close and person..."

Ami, I sometimes have the opposite impression about Victorian novels: They start with a bang and keep up pace but then the ending just seems to go on and on and on, like in our novel here: The last seven chapters are very hard-going, I think. But there is one example of a novel that is slow in the middle, namely Dracula, when they start comparing their notes and telling each other what has happened to them. Still, I like Victorian novels best and probably always will: Try Griffith Gaunt, which is a book that never slows down ;-)

Such great comments. Too far behind to read them all. Thanks Tristram for the tip: a Dickensian doc is what I need. If I can't find one in the phone book; I could always try the personals.;-). They'd be Dickensian by the time I had finished with them.

Actually have had MRI, so acute episode was worth it in the end. Very vague translation of MRI from GP: in short increased stenosis of spine, disc involvement, on list for neurosurgical referral which could mean injections or operation. Every day.there seems to be a new gadget for me to try out - getting more like a nursing home by the minute. Even though it's down as an urgent case it will
probably be months and months before I get a slot.

La di da, back to Dickens after that sleep-inducing detour.
Short comment: I love Micawber. My throat has been very sore so what better than to use a husky low whisper for Micawber's voice (well maybe not a whisper) and then Heep got more of a strangulated Fagin/Cockney-like tone?!

Would I have won a place at any of the prestigious drama schools with my monologues or even at the Village Hall? No. But I enjoyed it and I shall never stop singing Wilkins Micawber Esq.'s praises for the fun he gave me on this morning in summer 2015.

Hilary wrote: "Such great comments. Too far behind to read them all. Thanks Tristram for the tip: a Dickensian doc is what I need. If I can't find one in the phone book; I could always try the personals.;-). T..."

Hilary

I am glad to read that you are progressing, albeit slowly, through the medical system. I wish you well. If only the system ranked patients by their love of Dickens then you would be in the front of the line. If you have read my comments you will see I am not a big, or even a small fan, of Micawber. Please forgive me ;-)

Hilary wrote: "Such great comments. Too far behind to read them all. Thanks Tristram for the tip: a Dickensian doc is what I need. If I can't find one in the phone book; I could always try the personals.;-). T..."

I'm so sorry for what you're going through Hilary, you'll have to try what I do when my headaches are an 11 on the 1 to 10 scale (like today) just think about how many days it is until Christmas, it always makes me feel better. When I was little and in the hospital I used to do that, it always made me feel better to know that Christmas was never more than 364 days away. :-) As for Micawber I love him too, but we seem to be in the minority this time.

Oh, I almost forgot:

182 days until Christmas. 8 hours, 35 minutes, 13 seconds, 12, 11, 10.....

At least, we seem to be three Pickwickians with an esteem for Mr. Micawber, Kim! I wonder how many Pickwickians, like me, fail to hold Little Nell in esteem ;-)

Hilary, I keep my fingers crossed for you and hope that you will feel better soon!!!

Tristram wrote: "At least, we seem to be three Pickwickians with an esteem for Mr. Micawber, Kim! I wonder how many Pickwickians, like me, fail to hold Little Nell in esteem ;-)

Hilary, I keep my fingers crossed f..."

Poor, poor Little Nell.

Poor indeed! ;-)

Awh I feel better already with all your sympathy. It really does help. So true that all your positivity rugs off. Peter, If only our Healyh

My msg shot into thin air so I assume that
Means it's time for a nap. Thanks for all
Your well-wishes - Tristram, P I agree, Kim
your delightful Christmas obsession
Rubs off on me. I'm going to adopt even some of your enthusiasm. It has to
Be good for the soul! :-)

Oh how could you not love the drama and theatricality of chapter 53? It made me want to stand and cheer when Micawber denouced Heep!! If I hadn't known it was coming, I'm not sure there would have been enough hints to tell me. The Micawber relationship is so odd, that his seeming distant from his wife could have been for any number of reasons!

I do love his over-elaboration, pomposity and wordiness! I think non-native English-speaking readers of Dickens must find him a bit of a trial though, unlesss they are exceptionally fluent like Tristram here.

Actually I'm finding what I called the "hints" - and the forboding - very marked in this novel. I suppose that shows how well planned the main features were.