Fans of British Writers discussion

By their very nature, although plays are written texts, they're intended to be experienced in performance, and gain something in that mode. However, they can be printed and read just like books, and many people do. British dramatic art has a long history, beginning in medieval times; and I thought it deserved a thread of its own here.

Plays, like fiction, are a form of storytelling; and the attitude of the medieval Church in general was hostile to fictional storytelling. But the Church did embrace drama, in a largely illiterate society, as a means of educating people about Bible stories and religious truths. Some of the medieval miracle and mystery plays are still performed today; I've seen and appreciated some of these on VHS, including the classic Everyman.

Secular drama came into its own in Europe again with the Renaissance, with its conscious revival of Greek and Roman classical culture (which had included secular plays, both comic and tragic). The great figure of English Renaissance drama, of course, is William Shakespeare, some of whose plays I've read and/or seen. But there were other playwrights of the period who also deserve attention today, notably Ben Jonson and Christopher Marlowe. I've seen Jonson's Volpone performed back in the 60s on PBS, and read it in the 90s; I can recommend it in both formats. Marlowe, though, is a playwright I haven't really experienced; I've seen the Faust movie starring Richard Burton, which is nominally based on Marlowe's play, but I don't know how closely it really follows the original.

The English Puritans took up a stance of root-and-branch condemnation of the theater as inherently ungodly and immoral, an attitude that became deeply ingrained in Anglo-American evangelical attitudes for centuries afterwards; so the social acceptability and potential profitability of plays (which determined how much serious literary effort would go into writing them), waxed and waned inversely with evangelical cultural influence. Under Cromwell, the theaters were closed by law. They opened again with the Restoration, and drama continued to be a fairly viable literary form in England through the 1700s. John Dryden, John Gay, and Richard Brinsley Sheridan are big names in the field from this period. The Rivals, a Comedy, in Five Acts. as It Is Performed at the Theatre Royal in Drury Lane by Richard Brinsley Sheridan Esq, which I've read, is an excellent comedy that remains laugh-aloud funny today; and I can also recommend the movie version of Gay's The beggar's opera. Written by Mr. Gay. To which is prefixed the overture in score: and the musick to each song. (though again I think it may not follow the original strictly).

With the Victorian period, the pendulum swung again, with the theater out of favor with the middle class audiences that could give it solid financial support. I'm not aware of much worthwhile Victorian drama, though Oscar Wilde's play Salome (which I've read and liked) was written near the end of the period. (It's indicative that this one was written in French and originally performed in France.)

The earlier decades of the 20th century (up to around the mid-1960s) were a period of renewed flowering for the British stage. George Bernard Shaw is probably one of the most cited 20th-century British dramatists, but the only play by him that I've read is a minor one, Augustus Does His Bit: A True-to-Life Farce. T. S. Eliot's Murder in the Cathedral, however, is one of the great literary masterpieces of the 20th century in any form, IMO. Some other British plays from that era that I consider excellent are Terence Rattigan's The Winslow Boy (1946), my recent review of which gave me the idea for this thread; Sir J. M. Barrie's The Admirable Crichton; and John Drinkwater's Abraham Lincoln.

In both England and America, by about 1965 various cultural trends, especially the supplanting of live theater by TV and movies as the dramatic venues of choice for most viewers, had a significant effect on the writing of drama. TV and movie screenplays, of course, are drama just as plays for live theater are; but they're not apt to be printed for publication in written form. They're written to be filmed in one single production that can then be aired an infinite number of times, and they're not apt to be read or experienced apart from that wholistic production. To be viable, live theater had to appeal to an elitist audience with cultural biases and crochets that made a poor audience for drama in the tradition of what Western literature historically viewed as serious and respectable literary art. So this post-modern era has been another time of eclipse and decay for the writing of live-theater plays. It remains to be seen if this "dark age" will be followed by another revival.

This is a thread that's now open for any and all discussions of playwrights and their work --those that were mentioned above, or any others you all feel are worthy of discussing!

Werner wrote: "By their very nature, although plays are written texts, they're intended to be experienced in performance, and gain something in that mode. However, they can be printed and read just like books, a..."

Christopher Marlowe is worth a look. He died young, but at the time of his death was writing blank verse for the theater that was as least as good as Shakespeare's, and Shakespeare clearly admired and imitated him. particularly when he wanted to produced a haughty, majestic speech. Marlowe revered power and magnificence, but also possessed a dark humor that takes particular delight in the fall of the mighty. Dr. Faustus is episodic in structure but very good (much better than the self-indulgent Burton/Taylor movie), but also very good are The Jew of Malta, the two parts of Tamburlaine, and Edward II.

Werner wrote: "By their very nature, although plays are written texts, they're intended to be experienced in performance, and gain something in that mode. However, they can be printed and read just like books, a..."

Since we are talking about drama to be read as well as performed, we shouldn't forget the "closet dramas" that were written more for the reader than the stage: Milton's "Samson Agonistes," Byron's "Cain," Shelley's "Prometheus Unbound" and "The Cenci," and Thomas Lovell Beddoes' "Death's Jest Book."

The following is a list of English plays I've read and would highly recommend, in addition to Werner's useful list:

Renaissance:
Thomas Middleton (or Cyril Tourneur) "The Revenger's Tragedy.
John Webster's "The Duchess of Malfi"
John Ford's "The Broken Heart"
James Shirley's "The Cardinal"

18th Century:
Oliver Goldsmith's "She Stoops to Conquer"
Richard Brinsley Sheridan's "A School for Scandal"

19th Century:
Oscar Wilde's "The Importance of Being Earnest"

20th Century (first half):
GB Shaw: "Androcles and the Lion," Caesar and Cleopatra," "Pygmalion," "Candida," "The Devil's Disciple," "The Doctor's Dilemma," "Major Barbara," "St. Joan"
J.M. Barrie's "Dear Brutus"
John Galsworthy's "Justice"
Emlyn Williams' "Night Must Fall"

20th Century (second half)
John Osborne's "Look Back in Anger"
Robert Bolt's "A Man for All Seasons"
Harold Pinter's "The Birthday Party," "The Caretaker"
Peter Shaffer's "Equus," "Amadeus"
Tom Stoppard's "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead"

Bill, I knew your wide reading in British plays would give you some helpful material to share on this thread! I tried to reply to your posts yesterday, but my computer was having some problems with Internet access that day and didn't let me save my comment. :-( Great post, and I'll have to keep some of those suggestions in mind. We have a number of them in the Bluefield College library, where I work.

Although I've never read the actual texts of the plays you listed, I've seen filmed versions of two of them: the 1967 made-for-TV movie adaptation of Shaw's Saint Joan, with Genevieve Bujold in the title role, and the 1988 remake of A Man for All Seasons (Charlton Heston's performance as Sir Thomas More is outstanding!). I can't say how faithfully these follow the originals (though my impression is that the Heston version is probably closer to Bolt's play than the 60s spectacular, which I haven't seen, was). But I'd recommend both of them as being worth watching in their own right.

Werner and Bill,
Here is a more extensive list of British well-made plays, some almost forgotten now. They all make for superlative reading:

W. Somerset Maugham’s “The Circle” and “The Constant Wife”
Noel Coward’s “Private Lives” and “The Marquise”
Terence Rattigan’s “The Browning Version” and “Adventure Story”
Ashley Dukes’ “The Man With a Load of Mischief” and “The Fountainhead”
Frederick Lonsdale’s “On Approval” and “Canaries Sometimes Sing”
Henry Arthur Jones’ “Michael and His Lost Angel” and “The Liars”
Sir Arthur Wing Pinero’s “The Enchanted Garden”
Alfred Sutro’s “A Marriage Has Been Arranged”
J.B. Priestley’s “An Inspector Calls”

Thanks for that list, Bruce! (I recognize some of the playwrights named, but not all.) I'm sure I and other group members will refer to your post, and Bill's, for reading and viewing suggestions in the future.

Bruce wrote: "Werner and Bill,
Here is a more extensive list of British well-made plays, some almost forgotten now. They all make for superlative reading:

W. Somerset Maugham’s “The Circle” and “The Constant W..."

Glad you mentioned the Maugham plays, Bruce. I liked them both too.

Thanks for that affirmation, Bill. I rarely encounter anyone familiar with Maugham the playwright, who, generally speaking, I find more attractive than Maugham the novelist and short story writer.

Werner wrote: "Bill, I knew your wide reading in British plays would give you some helpful material to share on this thread! I tried to reply to your posts yesterday, but my computer was having some problems with..."

Check out the 60's version of "A Man for All Seasons." Paul Scofield conveys the sharp intelligence of Sir Thomas, which is beyond the powers of Heston. Heston is a fine heroic actor, but not an intellectual one.

Just a comment about our list of plays. I notice that no one has mentioned any Restoration plays, which is supposed to be the great age for sexual comedy and the comedy of manners.

I think I've tried them all--Congreve, Wycherly, Etheridge--but they all bore me. The jokes are always smutty and labored, and the society they inhabit is so earthbound, without a hint of the transcendent. Not that I need transcendence--I like the Earl of Rochester's poetry quite a lot, and there's no transendence to be found in him--but I just can't seem to enjoy the plays.

Bill wrote "Paul Scofield conveys the sharp intelligence of Sir Thomas, which is beyond the powers of Heston. Heston is a fine heroic actor, but not an intellectual one."

Hmmm! I've seen Heston's heroic-mode performances in The Ten Commandments, Planet of the Apes, and Omega Man; but while I considered them adequate enough (if a bit wooden), I wasn't greatly impressed by any of them as such. His performance in A Man for All Seasons, on the other hand, stood out as particularly natural and believable. Having several of his films to compare, this is the one I consider far and away the best.

Bill, you didn't state whether or not you'd actually seen the remake (in which case we just have a different assessment --yours perhaps influenced by comparing Heston to Scofield), or if you were just extrapolating from other Heston performances, or from a perception that the actor himself isn't very intellectual. (Which he may not be --though I never met him, so I wouldn't know-- but that's not always an insuperable bar to portraying a character who is.) If you haven't seen it, it's possible he'd surprise you.

Thanks for the recommendation of the Scofield version; if the chance to see it presents itself, I definitely will! I'm not a big movie watcher; but I do enjoy seeing and comparing different productions or adaptations of the same play, just as I like comparing novels/stories and their film adaptations, and/or different adaptations of the same one. It's fascinating to contrast the different ways different creative minds handle the same basic bloc of material.

Werner wrote: "Bill wrote "Paul Scofield conveys the sharp intelligence of Sir Thomas, which is beyond the powers of Heston. Heston is a fine heroic actor, but not an intellectual one."

Hmmm! I've seen Heston'..."

I confess I tried to watch the Heston, but was soon tired of it--probably because I couldn't stop comparing him to Scofield. But It could be I didn't give him a fair chance.

Perhaps I should express myself more precisely. I think superior intelligence is a very difficult quality for an actor to convey, and some actors who may be intelligent may still not be able to convey it. Cary Grant can, James Stewart cannot. Hepburn can, Stanwyck cannot. Morgan Freeman can, Danny Glover cannot. Yet I like them all. Most parts don't demand it--in Shakespeare, for example, I think only Hamlet, Iago, and Prospero require it--but Bolt's More is one of them.

My favorite "heroic" Heston: Ben Hur, El Cid, and the Warlord. He's very good in the westerns Will Penny and Major Dundee too.

I've seen Major Dundee, on TV back in the late 60s or very early 70s, and could remember it well after reading your post, Bill, though before that I'd largely forgotten that Heston was in it. At the time, I don't recall being especially impressed by it, partly because I usually tend to be more sympathetic to the Indians than to the cavalry (though not condoning the killing of noncombatants!), and because I thought the title character was an arrogant martinet. (Of course, none of that bears on the quality of Heston's acting, which I recall as quite believable --it takes as much or more acting skill to make you dislike a character as to like one!) I'll have to watch some of the other movies you mentioned sometime, if I get a chance, especially Ben Hur. (The novel is on my to-read shelf, too!)

Since Charlton Heston has become such a topic of conversation, I must recommend, if you haven't already seen it, The Naked Jungle, one of the glories of B-movies, where Heston stars with Eleanor Parker. He does play his typical wooden-faced hero, but the persona fits his character to a T.

Bill, Your discussion of actors conveying intelligence is fascinating. Wouldn't you agree, however, that an actor's success in this area depends heavily on the writer? For instance, I never think of Bette Davis as suited to play an intellectual character, yet she succeeded in The Corn is Green, thanks to playwright Emlyn Williams. And wasn't Stanwyck pretty astute in The Lady Eve? And, though I haven't paid much attention to Stewart's later roles in Westerns, my impression is that he gained considerable intellectual seriousness in them.

In regard to Shakespeare, were you thinking only of male protagonists? Portia and Vincentio, Duke of Venice immediately come to mind as two more very intelligent -- and intellectual -- characters.

Werner wrote: "I've seen Major Dundee, on TV back in the late 60s or very early 70s, and could remember it well after reading your post, Bill, though before that I'd largely forgotten that Heston was in it. At t..."

Yes, Dundee is an arrogant martinet, but Heston struts magnificently!

Bruce wrote: "Since Charlton Heston has become such a topic of conversation, I must recommend, if you haven't already seen it, The Naked Jungle, one of the glories of B-movies, where Heston stars with Eleanor Pa..."

Portia, of course.An extremely intelligent character. And, yes, the writer has a lot to do with too.

And thanks for mentioning Naked Jungle. I love watching it, and rooting for the ants!

Is Anglo-Irish close enough?
Oscar Wilde's "An ideal husband" - some of the dialogue just makes me smile every time I re-read it.
“To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance.”
“I always pass on good advice. It is the only thing to do with it. It is never of any use to oneself.”
“Other people are quite dreadful. The only possible society is oneself.”

Yes, Adrian, Anglo-Irish definitely counts! We're "Fans of British Writers" --that is, of writers from the British Isles, not just English ones (if that distinction makes sense).

I am fortunate to live in a city with a lively, and often inexpensive theatre scene. One of the local colleges has a post graduate theater program that produces a four play season each year. They perform a restoration comedy each year. The plays need to be seen, they gain so much with the young, talented and enthusiatic actors. This past season they also put on Lady Windemere's Fan. The other university includes a Shakespeare play in their program each year. This year we got to see a very interesting performance of Hamlet.

Rosemarie wrote: "I am fortunate to live in a city with a lively, and often inexpensive theatre scene. One of the local colleges has a post graduate theater program that produces a four play season each year. They p..."

Rosemarie wrote: "I am fortunate to live in a city with a lively, and often inexpensive theatre scene. One of the local colleges has a post graduate theater program that produces a four play season each year. They p..."

Abby, are you having trouble posting a comment?