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Deadhouse Gates
Group Read - Deadhouse Gates
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DG - Chapter One - NO SPOILERS
Mod
We have always advocated no spoilers in these threads, but I am going to say that this book takes the violence and horror to a new level. I noticed some readers were saying that the violence was difficult to read in book one. You may want to start brushing up on your speed reading and skipping if that is the case.
With that said, let the next instalment of The Fallen begin.
We don't even get out of the prologue before the gore is upped. Baudin beheading the noblewoman was brutal.
Mod
In the prologue we catch up with the Paran sisters, each in very different places.
We also catch up with some of the bridge burners.
Apart from that, I'm not entirely sure what is going on.
We know from the last book, a soul taken is a shape shifter. What is a D'ivers then? A different kind of shape shifter?
Hi Rob.A soletaken can shapeshift into another form, usually some kind of powerful beast. When a D'ivers shapeshifts they shift into multiple animals; ie if Ryallandaras could shift into a single wolf he would be a Soletaken; as a D'ivers he can shift into six wolves.
Mod
I did not understand the whole "Season of the Rot". It sounds like the most disgusting festival.Soletaken = single
D'ivers = Diverse, multiple
Whoa I'm behind! I forgot we were on Australian time, YAY I can start!
Prologue--Early on in the Prologue we get some important information about the god, Fener, The Boar of Summer, also known as Tennerock, the former God of War; and we also first meet the former priest of Fener, 'Heboric Light Touch', a member of the chain-gang in Unta with Felisin Paran. As with pretty much everything in the MBotF series, file away the information about Fener and Heboric for future reference as it will be important, not only in this novel, but in the third book, Memories of Ice.
The Prologue also introduces the reader to the 'Red Swords' aka 'Red Blades', 'Baudin' in the chain-gang with Felisin and Heboric, and the new Adjunct, Tavore Paran, and her "ever-present...personal aide", T'amber.
Book One: "Raraku"--
He swam at my feet,This poem speaks ever so well, in my opinion, to the title of Book One, Raraku, as we shall further see.
Powerful arms in broad strokes
Sweeping the sand.
So I asked this man,
What seas do you swim?
And to this he answered,
"I have seen shells and the like
On this desert floor,
So I swim this land's memory
Thus honoring its past."
Is the journey far, queried I.
"I cannot say," he replied,
"For I shall drown long before
I am done."
"Sayings of the Fool"
Thenys Bule
Chapter One--
As is typical in an Erikson MBotF novel, Chapter One is kind of like a seriously expanded and detailed Dramatis Personae. Everybody gets introduced and dropped into their respective scenes.
The epigraph to Chapter One is significant as well, and I love 'Messremb', the large soletaken great brown bear--
And all came to imprintAnd if we all recall the brief reference to the inventor of the calendar mechanism in Darujhistan near the end of GotM, well here we now finally meet and get spend some quality time with Icarium and Mappo Runt, the Trell! These two are a couple of my favorite characters in the entire series!
Their passage
On the path,
To scent the dry winds
Their cloying claim
To ascendancy
"The Path of Hands"
Messremb
I love the first description we get of the Trell too--
"He held a wedge of emrag cactus in his bristle-backed hand, unmindful of the envenomed spikes as he bit into it. Juices dribbled down his chin, staining it blue. He chewed slowly, thoughtfully."That is just vintage Mappo Runt!
And what of Icarium's lack of his own memories? Hmmm... The philosophical back-and-forth on this topic between Icarium and Mappo is simply fascinating. More, much more on this to come.
The Wickans! The scene with the Wickans arriving in the port of Hissar with Duiker, Kulp, and Mallick Rell (with his fat, soft hands folded together and resting on his paunch, his skin the color of oiled leather and smelling of Aren perfumes) is terrific! Imperial Historian Duiker is another one of my all-time favorite characters in the series, and is one of the reasons that I love Deadhouse Gates so much!
Finally, in Chapter One, we are reunited with are little group of Kalam Mekhar, Crokus, Apsalar, and Fiddler. As we recall they left Darujhistan at the end of GotM to return Apsalar to her home along the Itko Kanese coast.
Me: Yay! I've been looking forward to starting DG!SE: Bahaha! Here, have this brutal Prologue!
"He came shambling into Judgement's Round from the Avenue of Souls, a misshapen mass of flies. Seething lumps crawled on his body in mindless migration, black and glittering and occasionally falling away in frenzied clumps that exploded into fragmented flight as they struck the cobbles."
How can you read that and not feel like there's something crawling on you? And it only gets more intense from there but I'm not going into the gory details.
Felisin is our Captain Paran's sister, their father died after learning of his 'death' in Genabackis, and their other sister, Tavore, is Lorn's replacement as Adjunct.
"Sister Tavore, did our brother's disappearance cut you so deep? How great his failing you must imagine, to seek this recompense... and then, to make your loyalty absolute, you chose between me and Mother for the symbolic sacrifice. Didn't you realize that Hood stood on the side of both choices? At least Mother is with her beloved husband now..."
Tavore is so rankled by the shame of her brother's treason that she's driven to become the Adjunct and is willing to kill her own mother to prove her loyalty to the Empress.
Chapter 1:
A number of Soletaken and D'ivers are hunting an ex-minion of Shadowthrone which now seems to belong to an obviously powerful someone or something named Sha'ik. Fiddler and friends run into one of the shapeshifters in the form of an enormous aquatic centipede called a dhenrabi, which proves to be fortunately susceptible to Moranth explosives. It seems that a convergence of Daru proportions is happening in the Holy Desert and Fiddler and Kalam seem to be walking into it for some purpose, dragging poor Crokus and Apsalar along for the ride.
Also, is it just me or does Mallick Rell sound as if he's perpetually out of breath?
Another thing to file away for future reference: Mallick Rel is a priest of the Elder god Mael.Also, no one has mentioned the figure of a man composed entirely of flies. Felesin thinks its coming for her, and Heboric thinks its for him. It's not entirely clear, at least to me, who is right. Also, Felesin thinks the apparition may be Hood himself, but it's not clear at this point who is right.
The other thing interesting here is the idea that the Soletaken and D'ivers are looking to advance on their path to ascension. From the last book, we know that there are many paths. And its clear here that these Soletaken and D'ivers are extremely powerful, even if they have only started along their own path.
I still don't understand the culling of the noble class. Did Laseen fear that Heboric's treatise on her rise to power through murder might cause the nobles to rise against her?It sounds like Laseen wants to turn the Empire into a military state.
Mod
It sounds like Lase..."
I think it bears keeping in mind that the noble class are not the nobles of the Empire. They are the nobles of the ruling class the Empire subjugated. Part of the Empire's strategy is to make sure the noble class is kept weak so as not to challenge it's power. I think the main reason for this Cull is that Laseen is or feels weaker on home turf because she has just lost Dujek's army and she has had to ship of the Seventh to Seven Cities to deal with the rebellion over there - leaving her weaker at home. It's the perfect opportunity for any nobles with ideas to make a grab for power. So a Cull is how she deals with that threat.
Mod
Firstly we start off with Paran's two sisters. One has taken Lorn's place as Adjunct. The other is in chains waiting to be shipped off to Seven Cities - which we learn later in the chapter has an Otataral Mine (remember that magic deadening stuff) where prisoners are sentenced to work.
Lindsey wrote: "Tavore is so rankled by the shame of her brother's treason that she's driven to become the Adjunct and is willing to kill her own mother to prove her loyalty to the Empress."
Actually this is Felisin's POV. Heboric has another take on the situation
‘In any case,’ Heboric continued to Felisin, ‘it’s my guess your sister the Adjunct plans on your getting to the slave ships in one piece. Your brother disappearing on Genabackis took the life out of your father... so I’ve heard,’ he added, grinning. ‘But it was the rumours of treason that put spurs to your sister, wasn’t it? Clearing the family name and all that—’
‘You make it sound reasonable, Heboric,’ Felisin said
So Felisin attributes Tavore's actions as loyalty to the Empress - While Heboric attributes Tavore's actions as preserving what's left of her family ie Felisin.
Who is right? In either case if Tavore did nothing the Ganoes family were all going to end up dead for Paran's "treason."
It's also rather convenient that Felisin finds herself beside a badass (ie Baudin) right before they are about to run the gauntlet of the frenzied crowd eager to make a contribution in celebrating "Death."
The crowd ends up appeased, or maybe shocked, into quiet when Baudin uses his chains to saw the head off the noble woman. It's like, "You call that Hood worship? I'll give you Hood worship!"
Renny wrote: "I did not understand the whole "Season of the Rot". It sounds like the most disgusting festival."
Yes it is rather disgusting. I take the fact that it involves the priests of "Hood" (Death) that it is a part of "Hood" worship.
We meet Icarium and Mappo as Chris already pointed out. They give us a little piece of vital info
‘The convergence is months away. I’d guess Shadowthrone caught a whiff of what’s coming, sent out a few scouts ...’
We know about convergences from the previous books. It's usually not a good thing for mere mortals. But Icarium thinks it may help him find answers on his quest to regain his memories. Mappo, who seems to know more than he's telling Icarium doesn't think its a good idea at all.
We also get a repeat of the theme from the previous book "power draws power." This convergence is drawing shapeshifters from everywhere who are under the impression that Ascendancy is up for grabs.
‘Is this wise, Icarium?’ he asked softly. ‘In seeking your eternal goal, we find ourselves walking into a most disagreeable convergence. Should the gates open, we shall find our passage contested by a host of blood-thirsty individuals all eager in their belief that the gates offer Ascendancy.’
The inference as highlighted in bold, is that the shapeshifters belief is possibly misplaced.
We are also introduced to Coltaine the Fist who is sent to put down the rebellion
‘Coltaine,’ the captain nodded, his scowl deepening. ‘Sent here to take command of the Seventh and put down the rebellion—’
‘After all,’ Duiker said dryly, ‘who better to deal with insurrection than a warrior who led one himself?’
and
‘Coltaine united the Wickan clans in an uprising against the Empire. The Emperor had a hard time bringing him to heel – as some of you know first-hand. True to the Emperor’s style, he acquired Coltaine’s loyalty—’
It gives us an idea of how despearate the Empress must be to send a Fist who was loyal to the previous Emperor. Up till now...
...Empress Laseen held no affection for her predecessor’s chosen commanders, Coltaine was left to rot in some backwater on Quon Tali.
Coltaine's arrival also gives us a glimpse at the powderkeg about to explode in Seven Cities. Coltaine is asked to command men that he fought and subjugated in a previous war.
The captain at his side grunted agreement. ‘Sticks in the throat,’ he growled. ‘Half the officers here saw their first blood facing that bastard Coltaine, and now here he is, about to take command.
Mod
Here's the soletaken acting the good guy before he's about to kill our Bridgeburners.
Mortals, unfortunate for you to witness my passage..
For this you must all die, though I shall not dishonour your flesh by eating you...
Another fisherboat mysteriously lost...
I shall be merciful when killing you...
Fiddler's response is to take out his explosive loaded crossbow
...that blew the Soletaken’s head apart.
'You picked the wrong fishermen,’ Fiddler said, lowering his weapon.
We also learn a bit of detail about Quick Ben and Kalam - Both are Seven Cities natives. Both opposed the Emperor before they joined the Bridgeburners.
We learn that Kalam was the Seven Cities version of the Claw
‘Kalam. He was a Falah’dan’s Dagger, and the Claw gave him command of a Hand. Kalam’s a master assassin, Crokus.
And both Kalam and Quick Ben have cooked up a plan.. just a little one
‘It’s this, lad. Time’s come. I’m going after her....’
‘I don’t know what you mean,’ Crokus said. ‘After who? The Empress? How?’
‘He means,’ Apsalar said, still smiling...
‘that he’s going to try and kill her.’
Nothing too ambitious.
Mod
Of course if I didn't read it first, I may have less of an idea what he's talking about.
Mod
Mod
I'll be relying heavily on the group discussion this week at least.
Mod
The thing I like about all the Erikson books, is that the endings are so worth the effort even if you miss 3/4 of what's going on. But I found all the beginnings hard bacause there are a whole heap of story arcs and characters - but it's totally worth it when they all start converging at the end. By then you do get the general gist of things and the action sequences alone are totally wth it.
What I loved about this book is the military fiction aspect of it with the Chain of Dogs being an absolutely astounding read.There is very little crossover in cast here though and the action takes place on a completely different continent so its like being thrown in the deep end all over again.
Rob wrote: "Screw reading the book, I'll just wait and read David's notes. It's like Cliff Notes, but better.Of course if I didn't read it first, I may have less of an idea what he's talking about."
Haha..I have to agree!
I'd almost say I was struggling to get into this one, too. It felt like it was moving rather slow. But last night I finished CH4 and realized I had just read 120+ (I think) pages in what seemed like a blink of an eye. I guess I'm slightly interested!The prologue.. I read much of it twice. It was a pretty chilling read for sure, and I'm guessing (and it seems confirmed here) that much of what is revealed later is built on pieces of foundation here.
I agree with David on the scene with Fiddler and the Dhenrabi soletaken that gets its head blow'd up. That was fun! But it also made me think... really? That easy to kill one of these things? I guess they just felt a bit more powerful than that, but then again I suppose it totally depends on who the shapeshifter actually is. This one was clearly no Rake.
The revealing of the "plan" to Crokus was also very interesting... and ambitious isn't the word I thought of. "Doomed" would be more like it! (But I'm a first time reader so who knows! Can't wait to see where it goes...)
And already some interesting new characters to follow... fun.
Icarium and Mappo remind me of an Orc and troll from World of Warcraft. Missed it the first time that Treach and Ryllandaras were brothers. One a Soletaken and the other a D'ivers. Wonder if they fought over ascendancy?!
Mod
My problem with the start is it's so gruesome and battering. The imagery in the Prologue is enough for me to toss the whole book! (view spoiler)It's a violent, brutal world. Thankfully SE also gives us those flashes of humanity - compassion and kindnesses.
Just like GoM, it starts out confusing, but we all thought after GoM came together, that we'd be done with confusion. HAHAHAHA! Now we have even MORE characters, MORE setting with ancient history, even more ancient species! I was perturbed, and taken aback to the point of frustration. Why can't we follow where GoM left off? Well, this happens in future books too, and just like GoM each books sets the ground and once we get handle it all just takes off. I could say the same about the series, as we move on, what seems separate comes together into one big CONVERGENCE! heh
And both Icarium and Mappo seem so gentle, yet they also aren't concerned about other very dangerous beings so you just know they kick ass. A nice combination.
Lori, that pretty much sums up the MBotF. Well said!
message 28:
by
David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow
(last edited Feb 11, 2013 02:30PM)
(new)
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rated it 5 stars
Mod
‘I am getting bored, Mappo,’ Icarium said.
Also note that the pair are famous. Even if Icarium has forgotten who he is, others have not and Ryllandaras backs right down as soon as he knows who they are
The six wolves stiffened as one, half flinching. Mappo Runt and Icarium. Ah, we see. Know that we’ve no quarrel with you.
and then we have Mappo saying
‘Hunt elsewhere, Ryllandaras, before Icarium does Treach a favour.’ Before you unleash all that I am sworn to prevent. ‘Am I understood?’
In other words, "don't make him angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry."
Also Mappo states his role in this relationship. He is sworn to prevent Icarium being "unleashed." Sort of like a keeper.
Crokus has a point here I think. He and Apsalar are being put in a very dangerous position without being consulted first. They thought they were going to Itko Kan and instead of sailing all the way there they're going to have to cross a continent in rebellion whilst remaining well below the Empire's radar. They're not being brought into the plan, if you can call it that, before they are already well in harm's way. Not cool Kal & Fid.
Mod
Are you sure you aren't misreading
‘They are six, but they are one. D’ivers.’ Better it would have been a Soletaken. Veering into a single beast is unpleasant enough, but into many . . .
This appears to suggest Mappo is identifying Ryllandaras specifically as "Divers" as opposed to "Soletaken"
David Sven wrote: "Maggie wrote: "Ryllandaras is very interesting just for the puzzle he presents...As is written here, he is both soletaken and D'ivers...which at first just seemed to mean the same thing. But it rea..."I would agree with your interpretation, David.
Wow David's summaries are amazing and clear up so much! I stopped reading this book in Chapter 6 and waited for the group to catch up to me, so glad to finally be able to hop on!
Sorry--I did a spoiler---I took it out so you might want to delete your response as it copies the spoiler.
Mod
exactly David! I should have known better to refer to it here while reading another book!
Happy to be back immersed in Malazan again. Not so happy to be lost in the prologue again! Hanging on though, re-reading to make things sink in, as I know now that I will need to remember those events and characters soon enough! Confused still about some characters and where they will fit (Baudin for example) and also how both of the Paran sisters ended up being such big parts of the story - was it because of who their brother was that they were picked on? How exactly is an Adjunct chosen? I agree with some of what was said above, I think maybe the new Adjunct is trying to preserve/save her remaining family members...but to sacrifice her mother? Hmmm.I liked finding out that soletaken and d'ivers can take many different forms. Between mages and soletaken and gods, you have to step carefully in this world, nothing is as it seems at first glance.
Happy to see Fiddler and Kalam and the others, and know that QB could appear at any time (and probably will) - and that they are looking for Apsalar's father, as I'm still wondering from the first book what happened to him. Not sure they will ever actually get around to looking for him though, as the real purpose of the trip seems to something quite different. They always seem to be in the middle of a rebellion, don't they? I'm a little concerned that Apsalar seems to be reverting to Sorry's personality at times, is it only memories or something more?
Like the monkey - foresee amusing/alarming monkey-type antics.
Prologue was relentless. Dead bodies covered with flies, chained almost naked people, and oh you'd think it will stop there? There's a beheading of a woman using a chain. And if this is only a taste of what is to come... This is perhaps the most difficult chapter so far. There's too much going on to wrap your head around. New characters, settings, races, etc. Steven Erikson isn't really compassionate to his readers, is he?
I'm wondering when will Crokus finally have a characterization aside from being an effective sounding board.
Again, excellent and very thorough summary from David. We should compile all David Sven's chapter summaries and turn it into a Malazan Book of the Fallen for DUMMIES book.
Mod
message 39:
by
Lee, High Priest of Shadow
(last edited Feb 12, 2013 08:54PM)
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rated it 5 stars
Mod
Best comment EVER!
Shot! I just started today... amazing how easy it is to get lost in this series! I forgotten how erikson manages to make violence and gore uh, poetic? Or something like that! He drops Felisin in this freaking nightmare and I didn't feel overwhelmed by the gore and violence but rather felt sorry for that poor girl trying to keep her sanity in the middle of that... several refenreces are made to make it sound like she its going to have a long life... saying how she will always remember this or that... if that's how she starts... I'm afraid for what it may come next for the poor thing!
The scene from the fly blood thing... it was more vivid than what I remember the first time around! That was gorgeous!
The opening scene of Mappo and Icarum... as usual... Icarum was breaking my heart. I. Didn't remember the wolves being trech's brother! But it was fun when it decided to back off when it finally understood it was fucking with Icarum!
The reference to the rat divers was scary! How many forms can a diver hold? I'm sure 10 rats ain't gonna do much damage!
Lee wrote: "I'm wondering when will Crokus finally have a characterization aside from being an effective sounding board.Best comment EVER!"
I agree with Lee re: Aaron's comment. Perfect.
Linette wrote: "I think maybe the new Adjunct is trying to preserve/save her remaining family members...but to sacrifice her mother?"I got the impression that Tavore sacrificed Felisin (each noble family had someone taken to become a slave) to save her mother; but that her mother was killed anyway in the rioting by the peasantry in the night that followed.
"Did she not know that Hood stood on either side of that bargain?" or something like that. I don't have the book here with me to check.
David wrote: "I agree with David on the scene with Fiddler and the Dhenrabi soletaken that gets its head blow'd up. That was fun! But it also made me think... really? That easy to kill one of these things? I guess they just felt a bit more powerful than that, but then again I suppose it totally depends on who the shapeshifter actually is"I was thinking the same thing. I just kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I took it to show how powerful the new Moranth munitions were.
Lori wrote: "I took it to show how powerful the new Moranth munitions were."Fid certainly likes his toys
He's so adorable with his toys!!
Chaz wrote: "Lee wrote: "I'm wondering when will Crokus finally have a characterization aside from being an effective sounding board.Best comment EVER!"
I agree with Lee re: Aaron's comment. Perfect."
Thanks. :)
Probably stupid question. Are there really seven cities in Seven Cities? No matter how long I study the map I cannot see the seven cities. Or are those seven are all ancient cities?
Mod
There are seven holy cities. We've heard a few. There's Aren(where Pormqual is stationed), Ehrlitan (where our Bridgeburners have landed), and Karakarang which is where Kimloc came from.
Okay. Thanks for clearing that out. I'm very poor with maps and navigations. (I didn't know my left and right directions until I was 16.)
Aaron - I am excellent at navigation, and I had problems with the maps! It's only now on my reread that I'm making sense of it.Somewhere deep inside, I still differentiate between right and left by the kinesthesia of which hand was used for the pledge of allegiance we had to do all thru elementary and middle school.
Please mark any other spoilers using the spoiler tags. (when in doubt, use them).