Classics for Beginners discussion

Hi - welcome to the tri-monthly read for Vanity Fair. we'll be reading this book at our own paces, during July, August, and September.

Feel free to jump in with your comments, thoughts, and reactions to the book - it would be great to hear them.

Blurb for Vanity Fair (from the back of my copy)

No one is better equipped in the struggle for wealth and wordly success than the alluring and ruthless Becky Sharp, who defies her impoverished background to clamber up the class ladder. Her sentimental companion Amelia longs for caddish soldier George. As the two heroines make their way through the tawdry glamour of English society in the early 1800s, battles (military and domestic) are fought, fortunes made and lost. The one steadfast and honorable figure in this corrupt world is Dobbin, devoted to Amelia, bringing pathos and depth to William Makepeace Thackeray's gloriously satirical epic of love and social adventure.

Wikipedia entry on William Makepeace Thackeray

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William...

Wondering about the title?

The book's title comes from John Bunyan's allegorical story The Pilgrim's Progress,[2] first published in 1678 and still widely read at the time of Thackeray's novel. In that work, "Vanity Fair" refers to a stop along the pilgrim's route: a never-ending fair held in a town called Vanity, which is meant to represent man's sinful attachment to worldly things.

From Wikipedia (be aware, the Wiki page contains spoilers): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanity_...

Is this a re-read for anyone? Or are you brand new to the book?

I've seen two different adaptations;
This one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159090/?...
And this one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0241025/?...

But it is my first time reading the book.

Hi Rita, I will join this read, looking forward!!

It's a brand new book for me! I also want to watch a film adaptation after we are finished.

I have read this book twice, but not recently. I will follow the discussions, but will not be reading it again.

Well I'll take that as a good sign that you read this big book twice already!

I tried to read this book at least once before with another group, but got caught up in work and life. I've already started it again and am finding it to be much more engaging than I remember. I look forward to reading it with you all.

Welcome Nina, Rebecca, and Catherine! Great to have you reading along. It will be good to have your thoughts when you pop in also Emily.

Through Chapter 3

I really like the narrator so far! He has a really jokey tone, which is so much nicer to read than a dry, dull tone. The characters are a little ridiculous and I think Becky will be an entertaining character.

RebeccaS wrote: "Through Chapter 3

I really like the narrator so far! He has a really jokey tone, which is so much nicer to read than a dry, dull tone. The characters are a little ridiculous and I think Becky wi..."

I'm a few days away from starting but I'm expecting to love Becky as a character!

Well I must say. I don't love her.... She's just very smart and sneaky and will definitely make for some drama. I wonder if it will change

I am going to start this book...very soon!

Chapter 9

It's funny how excited Rebecca was to live with a Baronet....before she sees that all they have is their family name. No money or way of getting it.

I'm not that interested in the history of the Crawly family. Basically they were rich before and now are poor and do not want to pay their debts. It's strange how they basically worship Sir Pitts' sister in law just because she actually has some money.

Wow. Rebecca really knows how to work everyone around her doesn't she!

Through chapter 15

I can see how vanity is coming into play for all the characters. (view spoiler)[They all seem very vain, even Amelia. She is vain about her love for George. Geroge is obviously vain and always wants to admiration of everyone around him. Rebecca think she deserved a better life and station.

I am sensing a future of heartbreak for Amelia. I think her solider beau will not even want to actually settle down with her.
I hope that Dobbin gets to marry her instead!

Also I'm surprised that Rebecca and Rawdon got married! What the heck>?! When did that happen? (hide spoiler)]

Yes, she does. And poor Amelia just doesn't see it.

Catherine wrote: "Yes, she does. And poor Amelia just doesn't see it."

Nope. I am hoping Amelia gets a little less naive....but I'm not so sure she will.

Wow so much has happened so far! On to the next part

Thoughts on this first section Rebecca? Characters you love? Characters you hate?

Hmmm. It's hard in this book to completely love or hate most of the characters. They are all so self-centered, but that doesn't mean they are bad people.

I like Amelia, but she seems to meek and not very smart. I actually do like Rebecca, even though she is SUPER manipulative. I admire her determination to get what she wants! I also like the "spinster aunt", but I can't really explain why. She also seems to get what she wants and everyone else be darned.

I really hate George Osborne because he is completely spoiled, does what he wants, and everyone just lets him! Even his family and friends are ready to indulge him all the time. I also didn't really like Jos, he was a strange person.

As for the story, I'm enjoying it! It's pretty fast moving with so many characters, that sometimes I have to refer to the character list. I am wondering what there is left to happen in the next 75% of the book!

Aw-w-w, Jos. I remember him. Yes, he is strange.

☯Emily wrote: "Aw-w-w, Jos. I remember him. Yes, he is strange."

Yeah he was. He seemed super exaggerated and his love of food made me laugh. I wasn't sure why the narrator kept referring to him as an "invalid", but maybe because he was unmarried? By the end of the whole punch episode, I actually felt a little bad for him.

I knew nothing about this novel before I started...but I'm getting a sense that most of the characters are actually exaggerated in some aspect. I guess this is kind of a satire novel?

Definitely a satire.

RebeccaS wrote: "Through Chapter 3

I really like the narrator so far! He has a really jokey tone, which is so much nicer to read than a dry, dull tone. The characters are a little ridiculous and I think Becky wi..."

I see what you mean about the jokey tone. The book is quite jovial and almost light hearted in the way the narrator relates events.

Becky is definitely entertaining. Would I like Becky in real life; unlikely. I think I'd pick up that she isn't genuine. But she is sure as heck a fun character to read about.

I do feel a little sorry for her though. Alone in the world with no money and few connections; it must have been frightening back in those days. Though she does seem focused on marrying into money even though, unlike many women, she had employment opportunities available to her.

Rita *wants a quick quotes quill* Skeeter wrote: "RebeccaS wrote: "Through Chapter 3

I really like the narrator so far! He has a really jokey tone, which is so much nicer to read than a dry, dull tone. The characters are a little ridiculous and..."

I agree. A lot of the time I forget she is an orphan and really does have to make her own way. She just seems so poised that sometimes she really sheds that persona. I definitely wouldn't like her if I met her, but a fun character to read about.

The book has slowed down a little for me as the narrator has moved away from Becky and follows others. Like you, Rebecca, I'm not overly interested in the Creepy Crawleys.

I like Amelia, though she hasn't played much of a role so far. I also enjoy Becky, and wish we saw more of her schemes and machinations. For example (view spoiler)[ her wedding just comes out of the blue - I would've liked to have seen a bit more of the build up (hide spoiler)].

I think you also mentioned Rebecca (I'm too tired and lazy to go back and double check!), how exaggerated the characters are? I agree with that; they are mostly all over the top but I guess that's satire.

So far, it's an okay read for me, but not a great one.

I agree with you. There was a lot of hype for this book and they made it into a movie, so I was expecting to LOVE it. I'm still not sure how I feel.

Just started this yesterday and up to Ch7. Certainly light-hearted.

Starting this now. Have had a beautifully bound second hand copy of this lying around for years now but never got round to reading it, so this seems a good excuse.

Watched one of the film adaptions (I forget which) about a decade ago with my sister, but have forgotten pretty much everything about the plot except that Becky is manipulative and brilliant - so I'm looking forward to reading it for myself.

RebeccaS wrote: "Through Chapter 3

I really like the narrator so far! He has a really jokey tone, which is so much nicer to read than a dry, dull tone. The characters are a little ridiculous and I think Becky wi..."


Agreed, just finished chapter 3 now and really enjoying the narration so far. Also liking Becky as a character. Think this should be quite a fun read.

Louise wrote: "Starting this now. Have had a beautifully bound second hand copy of this lying around for years now but never got round to reading it, so this seems a good excuse.

Watched one of the film adaption..."

Great to have you join the read Louise!

I've set the book temporarily aside due to work being insane, but hopefully things will settle again toward the end of the week and will starting reading again then.

This is my first read of Thackeray, of Vanity Fair. I noticed no one has made comments on the reference to Solomon and Delilah, and other biblical or moral statements. The title reminds me of the book of Ecclesiastes in scriptures where King Solomon declares all is vanity in life. We eat, sleep, move and have our being, only to die not being able to take our earnings, our reputations or accolades with us. This book satirized this thought process, that life is folly, society is to be laughed at, life is humorous and poverty and despair can hit even the hughest ranks of said society. Failure effects everyone. I'm enjoying thus book immensely.

Darlene wrote: "This is my first read of Thackeray, of Vanity Fair. I noticed no one has made comments on the reference to Solomon and Delilah, and other biblical or moral statements. The title reminds me of the b..."

That's a great observation Darlene. I never really thought much about the biblical references, but now as I'm thinking about it there are a lot. I didn't remember the story about King Solomon, but now it makes sense with the story.

And finished this first section.

As other people have mentioned, a lot of stuff happens. From the size of the book I was expecting a much slower and gradual build up, am sensing it will be a much more twisty journey than I was expecting.

Still liking Rebecca. She's an awful person, but a fun character to read. And still disliking George Osborne. Looking forward to the almost inevitable plot of Becky seducing him and then screwing his life over (I mean, it has to happen, right?). Enjoying the fact that none of the characters are very nice and everyone's pretty selfish and hypocritical.

A fun read so far. Definitely feels like a very dark satire of Austen and similar regency romances, only telling it from the point of view of the scheming woman (Becky and her story so far definitely have certain echoes of Isabella, Lucy Moorland, and Mary Crawford in them). It's less good in the sections where the narrator tries to convince you that Amelia is precious and special and pure and angelic.

Sometimes Amelia bothers me because she is portrayed as so pure and angelic. And naïve. It's almost as though she's so good you want to hate her.

While I don't hate Amelia - she's done nothing to make me hate her yet, she's a perfectly pleasant if not very interesting character - I find the way the narrator describes her quite grating. She's a bit of a speshul snowflake in the way she's being treated right now but hasn't yet actually done anything herself to make me either like or dislike her.

Louise wrote: "While I don't hate Amelia - she's done nothing to make me hate her yet, she's a perfectly pleasant if not very interesting character - I find the way the narrator describes her quite grating. She's..."

I felt the same way!

Just finished reading where Rebecca leaves Amelias home.So far I am enjoying the book. I did not care for Jo so I am glad she did not marry him.

Just back from holidays and finally starting this book! Briefly read through your comments and looking forward, sounds like an interesting and entertaining read!

I have also returned from my holidays and am starting the book. It seems interesting, so I hope I'll like it.

Great to have you join the read Kjs, Nina, and Marietta. Look forward to reading your thoughts on the book.

☯Emily wrote: "Aw-w-w, Jos. I remember him. Yes, he is strange."

I thought because of this liver trouble he had and because of which he kept seeing his doctor? It's true though that 'invalid' seemed like a bit of an odd word to use for this.

RitaSkeeter wrote: "RebeccaS wrote: "Through Chapter 3

I really like the narrator so far! He has a really jokey tone, which is so much nicer to read than a dry, dull tone. The characters are a little ridiculous and..."

Finished Chapter 4 and really enjoying it so far. Agree that it has a very entertaining style and sometimes I giggle when reading it, for example about the Misses Pinkerton. I really enjoy all the characters being slightly exaggerated, it is nice to read a book where you're actually not expected to necessarily like anyone really. Somehow I expected this to be a heavy book and difficult read, that's why I had put off for quite a while and then happily joined this group read when the book was chosen as this increases my motivation to keep reading difficult books.

I also agree that Rebecca might not be a nice character in real life but she certainly knows what she wants and how to get there and in her situation I guess that's a skill for survival, certainly back in the day.

Oh, and also Jo, I would definitely think him extremely odd in real life but he is so comical that it's fun to read about him.

Curious to see how things will develop further.

Nina wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "Aw-w-w, Jos. I remember him. Yes, he is strange."

I thought because of this liver trouble he had and because of which he kept seeing his doctor? It's true though that 'invalid' se..."

Yes, it was cause of his liver trouble. I think the repeated 'invalid' references are mostly the narrator being sardonic, the same way Becky is/will be repeatedly referred to as 'poor', 'innocent', or 'artless'

Dr. Swishtail, Crawley-cum-Snailby, Grizzel and Mungo Binkie, Mrs. Blenkinsop, hahaha, these names really make me laugh!!

Nina wrote: "Dr. Swishtail, Crawley-cum-Snailby, Grizzel and Mungo Binkie, Mrs. Blenkinsop, hahaha, these names really make me laugh!!"

The names ARE wonderful and give us a lot of insight into the characters (and how the author felt about that type of person!)

RebeccaS wrote: "Through chapter 15

I can see how vanity is coming into play for all the characters. They all seem very vain, even Amelia. She is vain about her love for George. Geroge is obviously vain and alw..."

Smart observation about Amelia, I hadn't seen that yet but I guess I understand what you mean.

Chapter 18:
(view spoiler)[ And yes, I also secretly hope that Dobbin will marry her. But now Osborne got back at her, I was relieve that he broke up the engagement. Phew, poor Amelia, I feel there's more trouble to come... <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]