Classics for Beginners discussion

Discussion thread for chapters 19-35

Starting this section today!

Wow Rebecca, you are flying. I'm hoping that you are moving through the book so quickly is a good sign?

Yep! And I'm listening to the audiobook which is a really big help for me. I love the narrator because he has a slightly snarky tone that really works with this story.

It is appropriate that this book is being read and discussed now. The events take place during the Napoleonic wars and eventually the action will move to (view spoiler)[ Waterloo. The Waterloo battle took place in June 1815, 200 years ago. I am taking a course on Waterloo and Thackeray's book has come up several times. (hide spoiler)]

That's great timing Emily! I must say I don't know anything about the Napoleonic wars.

Through Chapter 26

Geez. George really just wants to be contrary! (view spoiler)[ First he spent all his time avoiding Amelia and not thinking of truly marrying her when both families supported it. Now, when his family has found someone else, he marries her quickly and now has to beg his family for their support and money. He went from a womanizing rich kid, to a married pauper. He's driving me a little crazy.

And his family was happy to give him money to do whatever he wanted before, but now he's settling down to be married....nothing. Just because her father is bankrupt. It's all about the money!

And where is Rebecca?

And will these men every go to war? Or will they just keep saying it is imminent. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[

Uh oh!! George is hanging around Rebecca? This is not going to go well at all. How strange! Maybe Amelia will actually get together with Dobbin.

Also this at the theater scene was interesting. Everyone went to visit their "friends" and acquaintances with an
outward show of happiness. But really they are all thinking of their own plans and really are just obsessing over themselves. (hide spoiler)]

Through chapter 33

(view spoiler)[

Poor Amelia. She finally has an idea what was going on with her husband and Rebecca. She even tried to stand up to her, but seems to crack a little when she does. She definitely doesn't have the personality to deal with this drama and betrayal. I don't know what she will do now that her husband is dead on the battle field. I bet this is when Dobbin will swoop in.

Rebecca seems to be getting better and better in her wealth and status. People don't really like her, but ingratiate themselves with her and her husband because of her wealth I think. I wonder how long that will last.

(hide spoiler)]

What did you think of Jos while he was near/on the battlefield?

Psh! He is really pathetic. I'm not even really sure why he was there. He went around with the military mustache in military clothes, but was just there to eat!

Note: If I was near a battle I would be completely terrified. BUT I would not willing go near it or even pretend to be a military man.

Through chapter 35

To be honest, I'm not as interested in Mr. Pitts Crawley, but I am getting through it anyway. ;) (view spoiler)[ Poor James Frank. It seems like no one in this family can quite succeed in their quest for the money. It almost seems like the effort is not worth the reward. Now that Mr. Pitts is "on top" he is stuck living with his aunt! I can't imagine getting married and being forced to move in with my new husband's distant family.

Finally we get to see the result of Osborne's death! Of course his father is really only thinking of himself instead of his poor deceased son. I would expect nothing less really.

I'm glad Amelia is getting some happiness with her baby! She really deserves it. (hide spoiler)]

Also another character I don't like (and forgot to mention earlier) is Mrs. Butes!! I don't see a single good quality in her!

With all the to-ing and fro-ing over who George was to marry (view spoiler)[ I was surprised at unremarkable it seems to have been for it to be considered that George marry someone of mixed ethnicity. I had imagined this would be frowned upon in those times, but other than racist comments from George no-one else seems to have an issue with it. Or maybe they did, but her money was more important to them? I was really surprised by this; not what I would expect from that era. (hide spoiler)].

Rita *wants a quick quotes quill* Skeeter wrote: "With all the to-ing and fro-ing over who George was to marry [spoilers removed]."

OOh yeah I forgot about this! It's definitely surprising that they didn't seem to have a big problem with her ethnicity. However, it seems like the over arching theme in this book is the obsession / importance of money, so maybe that was the point?

Anyone else reading in these chapters at the moment?

I'm struggling a bit. I'm not really enjoying it and I have nearly 600 pages to go o_O

Yeah this part is a struggle. It has the mid-book slump. I feel like the author introduced a bunch of characters to drag it out for some reason.

Yeah this part is a struggle. It has the mid-book slump. I feel like the author introduced a bunch of characters to drag it out for some reason.

I read Ch 21 A Quarrel About An Heiress and was surprised too (re. marriage between George and Miss Swartz considered). This line sums it up I think 'People in Vanity Fair fasten on to rich folks quite naturally.' p.207.

Starting this section now. Anyone at it at the moment? Briefly read through your comments, I was hoping to get through it as easily as the first part but that seems to not be the case? OK, phew, I'll brave myself for some lengths. Somehow, almost every long book seems to have them somewhere in the middle. Why is that?

I just finished in this section last night. I've been soooo slow with this read. So I'll still be hanging around :)
Good question about the middle bits!

Lesley wrote: "I read Ch 21 A Quarrel About An Heiress and was surprised too (re. marriage between George and Miss Swartz considered). This line sums it up I think 'People in Vanity Fair fasten on to rich folks q..."

I tend to agree: If you have money, the rest doesn't really matter so much. (I mean, in this book. Not in my personal opinion)

(view spoiler)[ I must say though that I was really surprised that George did marry Amelia in the end. I expected him the whole time to change his mind. I mean, this is Vanity Fair after all. And he was a proud representative of it after all. Poor Amelia, I hope he will not screw up her life! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 25: I am confused, I thought Dobbin had told Choppin about the wedding? But just some pages later it seems as if Choppin doesn't know? Well, guess it doesn't make a difference. BTW I really dislike this Chopper guy, what an unpleasant person (as so many others)...

Chapter 29: I don't understand this scene with General Tufto and Rebecca at the opera. What is her plan here, why is she making him jealous?

Nina wrote: "Chapter 29: I don't understand this scene with General Tufto and Rebecca at the opera. What is her plan here, why is she making him jealous?"

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting things correctly, but I have the impression Becky is out for all she can get from Tufto, and she needs him to stay interested in her so he keeps providing her with stuff. So the making him jealous was just a ploy to make sure he maintains his interest in her and that it doesn't stray elsewhere.

Ha, good point! I guess I still need to work on thinking like her ;-)

Nina wrote: "Ha, good point! I guess I still need to work on thinking like her ;-)"

I can't imagine anything worse than being stuck in a mentality of chasing money like she is :shudder:

Yes, the more I see of her the more I dislike her. I also start disliking Amelia. Though I still have some compassion for her

RebeccaS wrote: "

Uh oh!! George is hanging around Rebecca? This is not going to go well at all. How strange! Maybe Amelia will actually get together with Dobbin.

Also this at the theater scene was interesting..."

Actually, I think George and Rebecca would make a great match, their values and attitudes align very well. Only that this wouldn't solve any of the money issues which seem to be the key to happiness in Vanity Fair... We'll see how this goes further.

I feel sorry for Amelia, but I don't really warm to her as a character. I wish I did, I'd really like to have someone in the book I was rooting for.

I really don't like Becky. The single minded pursuit of money doesn't make for a sympathetic character, and I'm getting a little bored with her antics.

RitaSkeeter wrote: "I feel sorry for Amelia, but I don't really warm to her as a character. I wish I did, I'd really like to have someone in the book I was rooting for.

I really don't like Becky. The single minded ..."

I agree about Becky! It gets so tiresome when all she is doing is flirting with men and trying to make them fall for her so she can make more and more money.

I start to warm up to Mrs. O'Dowd. Yes, she has her shortcomings but she seems to truly love her husband, she gets into action when the situation needs it, she's willing to take care of Amelia without any afterthoughts, she sees through Rebecca and she isn't afraid to speak up and say what she thinks. Or am I just desperately trying to find _someone_ to like in this story?

Nina wrote: "I start to warm up to Mrs. O'Dowd. Yes, she has her shortcomings but she seems to truly love her husband, she gets into action when the situation needs it, she's willing to take care of Amelia with..."

I think I did like Mrs. O'Dowd but I might have been doing the same thing.

RebeccaS wrote: "Through chapter 35

To be honest, I'm not as interested in Mr. Pitts Crawley, but I am getting through it anyway. ;) Poor James Frank. It seems like no one in this family can quite succeed in th..."

(view spoiler)[ It made me sad though that even when George is dead his father doesn't come round and accepts Amelia and tries to find consolation in her and his grandson. (hide spoiler)]

I am not a big fan of all these side characters and stories and anecdotes, in my opinion they don't add much to the story, just make the book longer and longer and give more and more evidence to the greed and superficiality of al lthe characters. I also find the book a lot less entertaining than in the beginning. My favourite part is still when Rebecca lives with Amelia and her family in the beginning.

Nina, I also had the same experience of enjoying the first part of the book, but getting bogged down in the middle. Rebecca was entertaining in the beginning, but increasingly unlikable and boring.

Nina wrote: "RebeccaS wrote: "Through chapter 35

To be honest, I'm not as interested in Mr. Pitts Crawley, but I am getting through it anyway. ;) Poor James Frank. It seems like no one in this family can qu..."

I agree that the side characters just seem to make the story longer. Was this book written as a serial of sorts? Because then it would make sense that the author would want to make it as long as possible so he could make more money.

Yes, it was written in a serial form with twenty monthly parts.

☯Emily wrote: "Yes, it was written in a serial form with twenty monthly parts."

Ah ha! Now I'm truly understanding the need for so many side stories. Though there are definitely LESS characters than there were in Bleak House

That makes sense indeed! So, ok, will motivate myself for the second half of the book. Set myself a target of 2-3 chapters a day. It feels a little like homework but it works for me.

I feel like the only person who didn't mind and actually quite enjoyed this section! I found it was the Amelia chapters in the later part of the book that were the bigger slog.

Agreed that each new minor side character does not warrant a whole chapter of backstory though! Definite sections I would be slashing with a red pen if I was an editor,

Nina wrote: "That makes sense indeed! So, ok, will motivate myself for the second half of the book. Set myself a target of 2-3 chapters a day. It feels a little like homework but it works for me."

Feels a bit like homework to me also Nina. I'm not feeling the love I thought I would for it. Think I have about 30% to go so getting there though!