You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

One of the group reads for July is Euphoria by Lily King. Chosen for it's beautiful cover. Please discuss the book in this thread.

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1. have completed the book before or during July 2015.
2. discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread.

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions.
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy Reading!

I started reading Euphoria today. I have reached chapter 6, I believe. Nell and Fen have arrived at a new village that Andrew introduced them to. I think this is going to be a complex read. I suspect that while the anthropologists study a remote culture in New Guinia, their own complex relationships will be examined and found to be more consequential to their studies.

Nell & Fen (view spoiler)[ seem to be so lethargic in their relationship. That could be attributed to the fact that Nell is sick and injured, as well as their near disastrous experience in the field. Still, that doesn't account for the insensitivity that Fen shows towards his wife. They should win an award for bad sex. Is that award still open, jaxnsmom? There are undercurrents between Andrew and Nell that sound like there will be major conflict. (hide spoiler)]

So far, I'm enjoying the book.

One topic that comes up in discussion of this book is to what extent it is based on the real-life story of Margaret Mead and her friends. The author comments on this at the back of the book, in the acknowledgments section. According to that:
"While this is a work of fiction, it was initially inspired by a moment described in Jane Howard's 1984 biography Margaret Mead: A Life, and my subsequent reading of anything I could locate about anthropologists Margaret Mead, Reo Fortune, and Gregory Bateson, and their few months together in 1933 on the Sepik River of what was then called the Territory of New Guinea. I have borrowed from the lives and experiences of these three people, but have told a different story."

That's interesting, Casceil. I have always want to know more about Margaret Mead. (I studied Anthropology for 2 years a decade ago). She applied psychology concepts for individuals to societies. It was kind of revolutionary at the moment. The fact of women doing field research was revolutionary itself.
Will need to take a look at this one then.

That makes me think of The Miniaturist and how the author created a whole story around an actual artifact. I'm thinking that Euphoria is similar in that she's taken one situation and created a fictional story around it. At least that's the way it sounds to me.

This is a story about three anthropologists who have very different ideas about how to approach their profession and how to interact with the cultures they study. I think the heart of the story is the relationships that develop between the three of them. The book provides much food for thought on the subject of communication, and how we understand (or think we understand) each other.

Did you finish it recently, Casceil?

I'm currently at the argument between Nell & Fen about (view spoiler)[ her inability to get pregnant. I kind of understand a bit now about Nell's lethargy. In part, it's due to her love for Helen and having to chose between the two of them.

Andrew strikes me as being quite cowed under by his mother. He's afraid even to mention Nell in any of his letters for fear she'll read more into it and be upset. (hide spoiler)]

I've actually read it twice, most recently a few months ago with another discussion group. I love this book. I loved the characters Nell and Andrew, and I loved the way the author alternated between their points of view. The book is put together very cleverly, and you don't realize what a dense mesh it is until you get to the end and the last piece clicks into place. After I finished reading it the second time, I went back and reread the first chapter one more time, and just admired how cleverly everything was set up there.

Thanks for that Casceil. I'm about 60% and wondering where this is headed. The three of them are currently reading Helen's manuscript.

(view spoiler)[ I'm wondering if Fen is bi-sexual and what he was doing in the men's house that he lied to Andrew about. He's already tried to kiss Andrew. I have to wonder if this is going to end up a ménage-a-trois.

Of the characters, I like Nell and Andrew the best. Fen is a wild card and there's something dark about him. There have been a couple of references to Nell losing a baby and Fen being the reason. (hide spoiler)]

I'm number 3 in line for 22 copies at city public library. Pretty good chance I'll get a shot at it this month. If not, will go ahead and read once available if it resonates.

I just bought this and I am going to start it soon! The cover is really stunning in person,

I got some reading in yesterday. It's interesting so far and I'm definitely seeing tension developing between the characters. I appreciate knowing now that this is loosely based on real life characters, thanks Casceil! That always adds so much to a book.

I love the cover as well and I love having learned that it's an actual tree. I was showing the kids yesterday at the pool when they noticed the cover. They thought that was cool as well!

Casceil wrote: "One topic that comes up in discussion of this book is to what extent it is based on the real-life story of Margaret Mead and her friends. The author comments on this at the back of the book, in the..."


I read this book earlier in the year and enjoyed it. I did not realize at the time just how loosely it is based upon Mead, et al. It appears as if the author probably did not bother doing a lot of research on the characters, but rather used them merely as inspiration. Accurate or not, this book made me want to learn more about Mead and her experiences.

Has anyone read any of the books authored by Mead?

Lily King explains on her website that she based the book on Mead and two of her husbands. She goes on to explain what was real, but says that the characters quickly took on a life of their own and that the book is strictly fiction. If anyone is thinking this book is going to be a fictionalized biography of Margaret Mead, they will be taken up the river in a canoe... without a paddle.

I read the audiobook and they didn't include the author's note. For some reason, the authors' notes are often left off of audiobooks which is annoying to say the least.

I finished the book earlier. I really enjoyed the story and found it to be quite complex as it explored the relationships between the characters. Did Nell ever find her (view spoiler)[ euphoria? I think she may have once, and then kept chasing that feeling to feel it again and was never successful. It's like a drug addict chasing that first high. She was definitely driven in her work. Fen was perhaps the most complex character, unlikable but charismatic. Andrew was kind of lost, but perhaps the most stable. He was the most likable of the three in my opinion. (hide spoiler)]

Just finished. I ended up enjoying this one a lot. While reading it I was thinking about 4 stars but the ending grabbed me. ENDING(view spoiler)[ It made me so sad. I really felt for Andrew and Nell, the love they ultimately shared and could have had. I don't know if she was going back to Andrew but I like to believe she was, I want to believe he was the wine and the bread for Nell. Fen was an asshole, plain and simple. I guess he hurt her at the end and she ended up hemorrhaging. So sad. The mess left behind in New Guinea was so sad as well. I loved the last paragraph when Andrew spots a piece of Nell's dress in the musuem display. So touching. (hide spoiler)]

The writing was really good, it felt so sparse yet so full at the same time. It felt like reading a classic. This is a rare book that I think I will re-read again some day. I'll be looking for a copy on paperbackswap or betterworldbooks.

I may read up a bit on this real-life triangle.

I have a subscription for which I get 10 ebooks (Dutch or translated into Dutch) every month. I just saw that I get this book in August (Aaah, a month too late ;)!). Well, at least I'll be able to read it later. It was a groupread for another group I'm in as well (last month). And it looks really interesting - it is about anthropologists and I am one (well not in my profession, but I did finish my degree... I just couldn't find any work in it)!
I'm really looking forward to reading this!

Tasha wrote: "Just finished. I ended up enjoying this one a lot. While reading it I was thinking about 4 stars but the ending grabbed me. ENDING[spoilers removed]."

My final thought was (view spoiler)["what a tragedy!" I thought it was an interesting idea that someone is either wine or bread. I think Helen was wine to Nell. Fen thought everyone was wine to Nell, but in the end, she realized that Andrew was bread to her. Your comment was interesting, Tasha. Can someone be wine AND bread to an individual?

In her letter, she did say that she was going back to Andrew. I think when she told Fen, he struck her. She was as much a possession to him as was the flute. Ultimately, I think his actions resulted in her death which is why he wanted her buried at sea.

I really felt bad for Andrew. He was going to go to her, only to learn that she had died. He never did learn that she loved him as her bread. The dress in the museum was heartbreaking. (hide spoiler)]

Yes, I will definitely give this book another read. I did reread the first little bit. I almost kept going and did an immediate re-read, but decided to leave it for a later date.

Elsbeth, I would be really interested in your take on this book being that you are an anthropologist. I think the relationship between the three anthropologists was far more study-worthy (if that's a word) than the villages they were studying. I thought that the villagers were far more stable, having been living in remote areas and cut off from the "progress" of the outside world, than were the three main characters. (You might want to read this spoiler when you've read the book.) (view spoiler)[ It was interesting how the one man who had been stolen to work in the gold mines was unable to assimilate back into the village upon his return. It was like he'd been poisoned by his experiences in the white man's world. (hide spoiler)]

Tasha, re your comments on the ending. (view spoiler)[ I think Fen beat Nell to death when he found out what she had done--that she had thrown his prize overboard. We know he was given to rages in which he abused Nell and broke her things--her glasses, her typewriter. If you go back and reread the first chapter after finishing the book, you realize Fen caused Nell's miscarriage, which makes the sex scene even more infuriating. Fen is a complex character, for all his villainy. In the part of the book where the three anthropologists are working together, we see Fen's intelligence and his potential. He was just so insanely jealous of Nell's success, and so misguided in his own efforts to achieve fame. (hide spoiler)]

More discussion of the ending: (view spoiler)[ I think Nell was clearly planing to go back to Andrew, and that the only reason she stayed with Fen as long as she did was she felt an obligation protect the sacred object Fen was planning to exploit. I think when Nell got on the ship with Fen, she was already planning to dump that thing overboard, to protect it. Her last note to Andrew, with the laundry bag of clothes, says "Please let me go. . . . I am going to try and fix what I can." Nell's last entry in the journal (p. 247) says, "I have done it. Full fathom five it lies." (hide spoiler)]

Casceil re ending (view spoiler)[ wow! I missed that whole part where she threw the flute overboard! This, this is why I love reading with others. I read that line she wrote and thought she was rambling bc she had been hurt and couldn't quite think straight. It makes so much more sense now. thanks! :) And I also can see now where her death by his blows was much more violent than I orginally thought. Oh, it all makes so much more sense now. (hide spoiler)]

Fen (view spoiler)[ I do believe that as much of an asshole that he was he was also a very interesting character. (hide spoiler)]

Janice, I think that wine and bread comment was right in the story. I remember reading that and being struck by it so it didn't come from me. ;)

I have just started this but I already really loved this quote, from when Nell can't help but study the women on the boat in the very first chapter:

"-ornamentation of neck, wrists, fingers
-paint on face only
-emphasis on lips (dark red) and eyes (black)
-hips emphasized by cinching of waist
-conversation competitive
-the valued thing is the man, not having one, necessarily, but having the ability to attract one." (page 3)

I already love this!

Oh wow! I definitely am going to have to read this again. I missed (view spoiler)[ that Nell threw the flute overboard. I recall her saying that she was going to fix things, but missed that. And I thought I read that she was going back to Andrew who was her bread. I also missed the wine AND bread, only heard wine OR bread. Phew! (hide spoiler)]

One other thing that was easy to miss, and this really isn't a spoiler. The place where Nell and Fen lived that was built around a tree--it was a rainbow Eucalyptus tree.

Janice wrote: "Tasha wrote: "Just finished. I ended up enjoying this one a lot. While reading it I was thinking about 4 stars but the ending grabbed me. ENDING[spoilers removed]."

My final thought was "what a tr..."

Well, obivously I haven't read it yet, but I can imagine that you are probably right about the 3 anthropologists being very interesting to study! :D
Doesn't that go for most psychologists, too?

It's been a really long time since I've read anything about (or by) anthropologists. I'm really looking forward to this (well, I'll just have to wait 27 more days ;)...)

Casceil wrote: "One other thing that was easy to miss, and this really isn't a spoiler. The place where Nell and Fen lived that was built around a tree--it was a rainbow Eucalyptus tree."

I did catch that and realized that's where the inspiration for the cover came from.

For those of you who listened to the audio, what did you think? I think Simon Vance did an outstanding job (as always). I think the narration for Nell could have been better. I didn't really think it captured her personality or enthusiasm. Maybe it was just me. The voice I imagined when I read the book myself was very different than the voice I heard when I listened to the audio.

I have heard so much about Simon Vance as a narrator but have never heard him. It was nice to hear that he narrated this one, a good narrator for a good book.

Casceil wrote: "One other thing that was easy to miss, and this really isn't a spoiler. The place where Nell and Fen lived that was built around a tree--it was a rainbow Eucalyptus tree."

Well, of course I missed that! haha...although it seems very obvious now that you mention it. Honestly, the whole time I'm reading the book I was paying attention to when the link with the rainbow tree would pop up. I didn't notice that it ever did and then just assumed the link was New Guinea where this tree grows so just assumed it was an unspoken link.

What would I have done without you Casceil!! ;) thank you

Tasha wrote: "Casceil wrote: "One other thing that was easy to miss, and this really isn't a spoiler. The place where Nell and Fen lived that was built around a tree--it was a rainbow Eucalyptus tree."

Well, o..."

Don't feel bad. I missed it, as well. I tend to overlook some of the more obvious things.

I really enjoyed Simon Vance's narration. I have listened to Xe Sands before and really enjoyed it, but this time I was a little disappointed. Her voice was wispy, almost lethargic, which was fine for the first part of the book when she was sick with malaria. But once she'd recovered and was deep in the work that she loved, I would have like for her voice to be stronger and filled with the passion she obviously had.

I have just finished the first chapter, and I am blown away already. I have so many questions about the motivations of the characters that I want to race through the book to discover the answers.
On page one we are told that Fen has broken Nell's glasses, but we don't learn how or why. For some reason I am getting a bad vibe about Fen and suspect he broke Nell's glasses in an abusive manner. I don't like the way he 'punished' her because they left the Mumbanyo before he was ready. I am concerned about Nell's health and hope she gets medical attention of some sort while they are at Angoram. I thought it interesting that Nell is trying to get pregnant. Her husband certainly needs some pointers in the sex department. Actually, he needs to improve all around.
I love the way Nell interacts with the young boys on the dock on Christmas Eve. It is obvious that she loves working with the tribes when they are receptive.
The last two paragraphs in chapter 1 are interesting. I wonder if Nell has had a romantic relationship with this man before. Maybe a flirtation? Sounds intriguing.

Connie, if you are hooked already you are definitely in for a good read! I hope you enjoy it as much as we have. :)

After completing Euphoria I had to sit and think about how amazing the book is for a while. My heart is so heavy (view spoiler)[ that Fen has finally murdered Nell when all the signs were there. She had made her decision to leave and go to Andrew, but as is so often the case, she didn't leave soon enough. I love that she finally found Andrew who was her wine and her bread. (hide spoiler)]
I think it is interesting that the three anthropologists are being studied as much as the natives. I love the " elephants in boots" card is the sex card!
I thought it was pompous of Fen to keep saying he knew the invisibility spell, so people didn't see him when he did these terrible things. Does he really believe this? However, he does get away; he just doesn't understand or really care why.
I love the scene at the end when Banks is at the museum and sees the button.

I keep thinking about Fen claiming to have the spell of invisibility, and for some reason it gnaws at me. I think Fen is invisible, but not in the sense he thinks. He doesn't contribute to the work Nell and he are there to do, but goes his own way. He doesn't build friendships with the people of the tribe like Nell does because that takes effort; he doesn't even build a relationship with Nell and Bankson. He is too concerned about his own selfish desires to think about anyone else long enough to build a relationship. He breaks everything. So in a way, he does achieve his cloak of invisibility.

I also think it interesting that Fen didn't want to leave the last tribe, but Nell insisted because of the killing. She couldn't take the killing of the first born children and twins, but we learn that Fen beats Nell, causing her to miscarry and (view spoiler)[ and later kills her when she is pregnant with twins. (hide spoiler)] Fen seems to be motivated only by fame and fortune, not by love and family. He doesn't understand the difference in loving and possessing.

I enjoyed reading your comments Connie. My favorite scene, too, is that last one at the museum. It was so heartwrenching. I like your thoughts about Fen and his invisibility. It makes great sense. I see you rated it 5 stars too!

Great comments, Connie. I never really gave Fen's claim to invisibility much thought, and you make a great point about it not being a literal but figurative term. I find that Lily King used terms that have more than one meaning - like invisibility and possession. Great catch about the correlation between the tribe (view spoiler)[ killing the first born & twins and Fen causing her first miscarriage and her twins. (hide spoiler)]

My thought when I finished the book was "how tragic".

Connie wrote: "After completing Euphoria I had to sit and think about how amazing the book is for a while. My heart is so heavy [spoilers removed]
I think it is interesting that the three anthropo..."

I like this discussion of invisibility. (view spoiler)[It is interesting to me that Fen was so afraid of being "invisible" because of Nell's fame. Then after he kills her, he disappears. I wonder if he regretted no longer be able to be famous in his own right or if he thought the flute was his only chance? (hide spoiler)]

Following up on Carla's post: (view spoiler)[ It is interesting to speculate about why Fen dropped out of sight after Nell's death. I'd like to think it was shame or remorse. It may be that he thought the flute was his only chance. Or perhaps he realized that, without Nell, he was not going to accomplish anything amazing on his own. (hide spoiler)]

It's probably a bit of both (view spoiler)[the flute and being without Nell (hide spoiler)], Casceil. I don't think he had much shame or remorse. ;)

Carla wrote: "I think it is interesting that the..."

Which character did you like the most?

Janice wrote: "Carla wrote: "I think it is interesting that the..."

Which character did you like the most?"

I believe I liked Bankson the most. How the despair and confusion that he felt about his work and life at the beginning was lifted upon on his first interactions with Nell. It was like he knew almost at once that (view spoiler)[Nell was his wine and bread right away.

He was also kind of the middle between the extremes of Nell and Fen. Not as famous or gifted as Nell, but concerned and interested lives of the people that he was studying (unlike Fen). (hide spoiler)]

I agree about Bankson. It's interesting, isn't it, that having been at rock bottom at the beginning of the book, he didn't at the end. I think that speaks volumes about how (view spoiler)[his relationship with Nell affected him. Even after she died, he found the strength and drive to continue. (hide spoiler)]

I liked him best as well. He was a good guy.

Still waiting for library book. I am head of the line now so shouldnt be much more of a wait. Sounds like reaaly good book tho i've avoided spoilers thus far.

Bankson was also my favorite character. Perhaps it's because I kept picturing him as the quintessential British anthropologist, back in his country house one day with his pipe and his books and his dog, telling his adventures to his nieces and nephews.

Aw, that sounds sweet. :)

All month I have thought about this book. It just keeps cycling through my head at various times because of the powerful themes and the way it is so well-written. I think this my favorite book of the year, so far. I am so thankful that we read it this month. I also think this is a great discussion! : )
I have actually had the book on my den lamp table for a year but never got around to it until our group read.

It does really lend itself to great discussion, Connie. I keep telling my friends to read it.

I finished this while I was on vacation and I just got home last night. I absolutely loved it. A few notes on my feelings on it:

The Ending: (view spoiler)[ I felt like the ending was too rushed, but I also feel like it is mainly Bankson's story that we are reading and not Nell or Fen's. The ending feels rushed, but that is because it would have been so rushed to him as well. I completely missed that Nell threw the flute overboard! That makes so much more sense now, of course Fen would have been furious. Also, the museum scene with the button was very moving for me as well. (hide spoiler)]

Nell and Fen: (view spoiler)[ It was clear to me from the beginning that Fin was very abusive and also very jealous of Nell's success. There was definitely foreshadowing from the very beginning of what would happen to them. It also was heartbreaking what he did to the tribe as well. He is selfish, confused person. I agree Janice, that Fen is bisexual. I think it's very interesting how King plays with both Nell and Fen's sexualities and it gives both of the characters more depth. I think that it is an interesting parallel that they are both trying to label these tribes and concepts, yet neither of them fit into any social "box." (hide spoiler)]

Nell and Bankson: (view spoiler)[ Again, I think that this relationship was foreshadowed as doomed from the beginning of the book and I think that Bankson was meant to grow as a person through it and I think that he did. As much as I adored Nell, I also think she was toxic in her own way and I don't think that she would have ever been able to have a monogamous relationship with Bankson. However, I think that she inspired him and gave him what he needed to move on with his life. (hide spoiler)]

Overall, I really enjoyed this book, the writing was so beautiful and the characters felt real and alive. I will be rereading it for sure.

You make great points in your comments AmyCynthia. I really liked how you showed the irony in their goal in their studies to label the villagers and put them into neat tidy boxes.