The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword discussion

Here it is. I'm working on a fantasy novel and I'm sure I'm not the only on in the group who is. What I want to know is which things are comfortably familiar and which things are eye-rollingly predictable when you're reading.

So I'm just hoping to get a discussion going on the dos and don'ts of clichés in writing and with some specific focus on the fantasy genre. Also since Fantasy is such a prolific genre I'm not limiting this to just novels but TV and Movies as well.

To keep the thread going you can answer about any previous cliché mentioned in the thread but at the end of your post bring up a new one for discussion that you find common.

This thread is for general discussion about the tropes and clichés, not necessarilly any that I'll be writing into my own story.

So I'll start with this:

The bathing maiden in the pool of water discovered by the chaste knight/dashing love interest OR the maiden has a secret on her body that is discovered by a current traveling companion.

What do you think of this cliché? How would you react if you encountered it in a novel?

(Note: this isn't anything I am putting into my own novel, just a good common one to start the discussion)

Old man who was badass in his prime but has renounced his ways and lives in a self imposed exile close to the main character, and eventually becomes his mentor. The Obi Wan Kenobi, I mean to say.

A knight discovering the maiden bathing in a pool will be extremely predictable and boring :D

Secret on the body is okay for me, it opens up this amazing backstory that the reader is unaware of until that point. I would have a problem if it's just some seal containing immense power, but otherwise it's ok.

Rahul wrote: "A knight discovering the maiden bathing in a pool will be extremely predictable and boring :D

Secret on the body is okay for me, it opens up this amazing backstory that the reader is unaware of u..."

My friend is playing a Kitsune in our upcoming fantasy tabletop session but he's told everyone else in the group that his character is a human. He was hoping to have the big reveal in that way and I had to make fun of him for it :P

Rahul wrote: "Old man who was badass in his prime but has renounced his ways and lives in a self imposed exile close to the main character, and eventually becomes his mentor. The Obi Wan Kenobi, I mean to say."

That's a good one! The guiding Sage.

I think because it's less of a terribly specific event and more of a character trope it doesn't bother me so much, but it is a shame that now I never meet an old man in a book without knowing he's going to be important.

New one:

The member of the group of travelers/partner/whoever that self-sacrificially hides a case of blood poisoning until it's too late and they either die the noble death protecting the protagonist (giving them the strength and anger to come into their own) or some improbable magic or magical location is required to revive them.

What kind of secret on the body where you intending? Because please don't make it a 'That's the royal birthmark' type deal. Those irritate me, and I'd be dreadfully surprised if I'm the only one. You could have a character of unknown ancestory being distinguised by some physical trait(s). As long as your character isn't too world-wise already, that is.

Another cliche that you should probably avoid is the hero oversleeping on her (I'm assuming female) first day. Please don't do this. It may seem a good way too characterise your character (you know what I meant), but it really is just annoying.

And please don't start the adventure on her sixteenth (or whatever) birthday, unless it's for cultural reasons. Otherwise;

Statistically unlikely; tick
Mildly annoying; also tick

Sorry about the angry ranting, I'm easily annoyed.

Badgerlord wrote: "And please don't start the adventure on her sixteenth (or whatever) birthday, unless it's for cultural reasons. Otherwise;

Statistically unlikely; tick
Mildly annoying; also tick

Sorry about the ..."

You also mistunderstood a little, I only meant that my current project inspired me to start the discussion, not that everything I mention is an element of my story. If the thread catches on I hope anyone might ask about a specific trope they want to add into their own story but until then I just meant for this to be general. I'm definitely with you on being easily annoyed with clichés though.

Incidentally my heroines are 21 and 25 and the story is a war as told from their perspective, well into their carreers and established skillsets.


back to the clichés - I personally hate the bathing maiden trope, I'm also not fond of the other two you mentioned, the events that start on the birthday for which the heroine happened to sleep in. I don't like when authors use silly mistakes and other such events to force characterization, I think a character's traits should be evident through their voice and thought process first.

Oh,no. I knew you weren't actually planning to use everything mentioned here, I just (for some reason) assumed that was how they were to be phrased. My apologies for any confusion caused.

What do you think of the, as Tv Tropes phrases it, Not-So-Omniscient Council of Bickering trope? I actually like this one. It's always nice seeing a council of supposedly wise and venerable leaders get nothing done because they can't agree.

OH lawl. That's great.

And I don't mind it, at the very least it's a trope that seems to mimic reality.


How 'bout the biggest of all, the long road trip.
dun dun dun