Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion
The Cafe - Open Discussion
>
What Denomination Are You?
Aw, Clark, I didn't accuse you of saying only your church was Christian. I merely paraphrased your concern that my churches were doing me a disservice by not "confronting" me with the "gospel." If that came across wrong, I'm sorry.I grew in a worldwide, non-denominational church (meaning only that it did not profess to carry a name, other than the name of Jesus) that was very exclusive. Some may assume that I have overcompensated by becoming TOO liberal after my departure.
Truth is, after I researched the origins of my church, I didn't stop there, but continued to research the origins of much Christian thought...ideas of heaven and hell, of honorific miracles, of how the scriptures developed. It has caused me to realize how very little we really know about God, and to become more open-minded toward other religions.
I now have no denomination, attend several churches, and feel most at home in a Unitarian Universalist church.
I, too, am Baptist, but very middle of the road (neither Fundamental nor liberal). We have NO church imposed rules that can be construed as anything but strict interpretation of the Scriptures. Baptism is optional, but we insist on full immersion rather than the cup of water over the head variey. The Bible is the arbiter of all congregational disputes, but it's amazing how much latitude that allows!
I'm ain't-a-baptist.I (more or less) agree with most baptist doctrine, but in general disagree with how they treat people and other denominations.
Let's see. I work with the Christian Church (Churches of Christ) which was a unity movement begun in the early 1800s. They tried to unite all the Christians under the name "Christian" only and ended up a denomination called the Christian Church within the wider universal Christian church. Its confusing. But the campus ministry I work for and my ordination are through the Christian Church. They are flexible on a lot of things, as a unity movement, but tend to emphasize baptism by immersion.
Theologically, I am Wesleyan-Anabaptist. We attended a Brethren in Christ church which is not Mennonite but close. I think I am close enough to being a pacifist to fit into the BIC but not the Mennonites.
That said, I preach at a Korean Presbyterian Church on Sundays. But I am not Korean or Presbyterian :)
As I get older, I do find myself intrigued by much Catholic spirituality. I doubt I'd ever convert, but after listening to shallow praise songs and going to churches that are more like rock concerts, the tradition and beauty of Catholicism is refreshing. A lot of my favorite writers are Catholic.
If you like the Catholic traditions you might check out Lutherans. Funny you mentioned pacifism I'm in the Air Force. Also, I speak Korean, though I'm not Korean either.
Don't worry, I don't think it is a sin to serve in the military. For the record.
Samuel wrote: "I (more or less) agree with most baptist doctrine, but in general disagree with how they treat people and other denominations. "Samuel, do you mind if I ask what it is specifically you object to concerning the way Baptists treat "people and other denominations"?
Clark
David wrote: "Let's see. I work with the Christian Church (Churches of Christ) which was a unity movement begun in the early 1800s. They tried to unite all the Christians under the name "Christian" only and en..."David, just reading your response made me dizzy bro! Very cool.
Clark
Thanks Clark.It goes back to what I posted about the division of evangelicalism. All of my background (Christian Church, Korean Presbyterian, even Anabaptist) has fit more or less within a conservative evangelical frame (which includes Southern Baptists). So your denomination may say less about your belief then the conservative/liberal divide. "Mainline" churches that are Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, UCC have more in common with each other than more conservative Lutheran, Wesleyan, Reformed churches.
The challenge now is that the old conservative/liberal divide is being changed as evangelical breaks down, primarily between the neo-reformed (young, restless, reformed or neo-fundamentalists) and the side that includes everyone else (emerging? progressive?)
I, like Clark, am not sure exactly what Samuel is referring to about the treatment of other peoples and denominations. As far as I can tell, there are NO restrictions upon thought within my church, or I'd move on. The largest schism is ages old - how the Jews fit in to our comfy gentile world. I maintain, though they have angered God constantly, all their covenants still exist, their land size will increase to those territories promised in the Bibles, and all other propjecies concerning them will transpire until they fight with the armies of the Lord against the antichrist in the Apocalypse (short version). Christians have no dog in this fight, they will have been raptured.Others maintain the Jews lost all their covenants through disobedience, Christians are the new Israel and we'll have to endure all the tribulations! Yikes, not thanks!
David wrote: "The challenge now is that the old conservative/liberal divide is being changed as evangelical breaks down, primarily between the neo-reformed (young, restless, reformed or neo-fundamentalists) and the side that includes everyone else (emerging? progressive?) "It is a challenge, in deed. For my part, I would think it far more beneficial to attempt to bridge the divide in the name of Christ than to burn any bridges "so to speak." Theologically speaking, I certainly fall into the Conservative, Fundamentalist camp while my heart says that mediating between the groups can only be beneficial. If I am being honest, there is a great deal of rhetoric from both sides that gets on my nerves a bit.
Clark
It's that "rhetoric on both sides" that bothers you is the same thing that I'm referring to, namely the "we're right and they're wrong" even to the point of dismissing people even condemning. Maybe it was just the churches I went to when I was young but that was definitely my experience. Also, those churches (all baptist, though not all o them bore the name) were NOT at all accepting of new or different people.
Samuel - that's probably more a product of small town xenophobia than the predominant church view in that area.
Fair enough Robert, but I grew up in Baptist Churches, and a private school that was run under Baptist doctrine and attended university at a Baptist (unofficially) affiliated College. With their strict dress codes and adherence to a strict, if you don't look like us, dress like us, talk like us, be like us, then you're not a true follower of Jesus and you're not welcome in our church.You're right in saying that it was probably the small town-ishness of the churches but what about the university? I still love the college and I think maybe someday I'll return there to attempt to work there. But really?! They might have said that the dress code was for legitimate reasons but growing up I've never felt like I ever attended a Baptist fellowship that welcomed the odd, unkempt, or foreigner. The church that I started attended when I got to my first military duty station in Omaha, NE was TOTALLY different. The pastor rode a motorcycle (sometimes to church even, though since he had a family that wasn't all that often). He generally wore tight(ish) jeans, a collared shirt and a leather vest to preach. In all honesty he looked very much like what people tell me is a "hipster." He wasn't the only one either the church had a fair outreach in a local group of motorcyclists so there was a fair amount of big, burly gruff looking saints we worshipped with regularly.
I'm NOT trying to say that appearance is everything, but I'm just saying that many of the wonderful people I met through that fellowship wouldn't have been accepted at the churches, school, and college(s) that I attended previously. I mean there's that old joke:
St Peter is giving a tour of heaven and they come to this huge wall. As they pass he shushes the people and has them pass by as quite as can be. After they pass and are well out of earshot one of the people in the tour ask, "What was behind that big wall?" Peter responds, "That was the Baptists, they think they're the only ones here."
That's the mentality I hate and why I avoid (to some extent) Baptist congregations. Like I said, in general I agree with most of their theology.
Wow, Samuel, if I had experienced any of the stringent restraints you were subjected to from the Baptists, I would have bolted, too. Perhaps I've just been lucky with location. My first Baptist Church was in Bradenton, Florida - snowbird heaven. People coming and going year round so there was no such thing as a clique. Now, I'm in El Paso, Texas near Ft. Bliss. Same thing, soldiers and families coming and going and lots of sorrow and angst and togetherness over deployments, sequester, wounded warriors, etc. Neither church had any time for that "old time religion, us against the others, stuff."
Born, raised and attended college in smalltown Ohio.Now, I've escaped into the Air Force and I, in some ways, can't wait till my 20 years is up (I plan on doing a full twenty, I'm at just over six and a half) and I can return to Ohio. I want to retire/return there hopefully advanced degree and years of good experience in hand, and get a teaching job.
Good question Clark. This sure tell us alot about people.I have been involved with many denominations: Alliance, Lutheran, Free Methodist, Nazarene, Baptist...
There's things I dislike in all of them. I can enjoy any church until they start abusing scripture - many never seem to get very deep into scripture or doctrine at all.
I am also very aware that many church attendees haven't the slightest idea what their denominations believe - or what the Bible says for that matter. So often it doesn't matter what church you go to: it's occasionally Diet Christian Lite almost anywhere you go.
It's somewhat comical that people can walk into a Mormon or J.W. church and be greeted by folks who still assume they are just basic Christians like Billy Graham or Martin Luther. Their doctrine hasn't officially hit them yet...sooner or later though!
Who ever thought that just following the Bible would be so ambiguous? fun eh?
(just to be clear - I do not find the Bible ambiguous, just the folks who claim to honor it.) :D
Samuel - teaching is certainly an admirable way to serve the Lord, as is protecting His adherents from aggression, so count your service time as ministry work too. I earned an advanced degree later in life and taught at El Paso Community College. It was rewarding to help place students into careers or 4 year institutions who came to me questionable at best. Although your future plans are solid, don't get too locked in on them as the Lord works in mysterious ways!
Rod - it isn't the realization that young people want diet Christian lite (as I recall, many of the temptations of my youth were one helluva lot of fun), it's the actuality that our seniors don't want to know or dispense a full dose of scriptural knowledge either. A hallmark of wisdom is having made mistakes, learned from them, and then at least warning the next generation of behavioral consequences. Are we becoming a nation of such old, secular fools we can't even do that now?
Catholic. I think you all know that though, :D
It's great to have a dedicated Catholic here to chat with. Thanks Bryn.One of my favourite Christian apologists is a Catholic: Peter Kreeft. They should have made him Pope. :D
Rod wrote: "It's great to have a dedicated Catholic here to chat with. Thanks Bryn.One of my favourite Christian apologists is a Catholic: Peter Kreeft. They should have made him Pope. :D"
Anytime!
Peter Kreeft. Heard of him, but never listened to him. I'm going to look him up..
I am a Non-Denominational. I go to a Bible church which means they follow God's Word and God's rules and not man's words and there rules.
Good to see you here Jennah. :DI too am rather non-denominational. Just give me a few good Bible translations and some Christian friends and the world becomes a better place.
(I do enjoy good long sermons though.)
Rod wrote: "Good to see you here Jennah. :DI too am rather non-denominational. Just give me a few good Bible translations and some Christian friends and the world becomes a better place.
(I do enjoy good lo..."
haha same here!
I consider myself a Reformed Baptist. As of late I have been studying Reformed-Presbyterianisms thoughts on infant baptism (i.e. including babies in the new covenant community). I haven’t made up my mind yet. But since there is no reformed baptist churches in my area I guess I will have to make up my mind by the end of the next paragraph about who I am willing to be wrong with (tongue placed firmly in cheek). Classic Dispensational theology bothers me; Covenant theology seems to labor to defend its covenants rather extraneously. However, covenant theologians read the Old Testament properly, which is through the lens of the New Testament. In the city where I live there is a few Presbyterian churches and a million dispensational churches. So if I am going to err it will be with a Presbyterian (I got my tongue out).
I used to go to a Bible Church and consider myself non-denominational, which really means, um...well...absolutely nothing. “Bible” churches are usually what are coupled with a non-denominational church and these churches are usually dispensational, Baptist, and non-Calvinistic to one degree or another. The problem is that this is not always the case.
To say I go to a non-denominational bible church is another way of saying you go to a Church on Sunday that reads the Bible. Everyone wants to know how they read the Bible. A bible church is simply a church that is not affiliated with a particular denomination or leadership style. The church could lean charismatic, Presbyterian, reformed, free-will Baptist, or more traditional Baptist. More often than not, as the pastor goes so goes the church. The point is that they don’t have to answer to any governing authority and that is the purpose of non-denominational.
However some non-denominational church’s look like a “non-denominational-denomination.” For example, Calvary Chapel's consider themself non-denominational, but they have all the makings of an official denomination (i.e. non-Calvinistic/non-reformed/statement of faith/founder/board etc...). If you would like to further the discussion say what your non-denominational church adheres to. I use to say “we follow the Bible and not man” too, and now I cringe when I here (or read) other people who say that. Stop saying that! All Christians that make up the church believe the words in the Bible and are unified by the Gospel.
Excuse you, but when a person says that they are non-denominational that means that they don't JUST go to a church that reads the Bible. They go because they want to learn more about our heavenly Father and worship Him. I go to a Bible church and I DON'T JUST go because I read the Bible, I go because I want to learn more about God and worship Him. Like I said up above we follow the Bible and what God's Words says, we don't follow man's words and man's rules.
I think what Josh is going for here is that non-denominationalists/Bible churches etc. are sticking their heads in the sand when it comes to theological disagreements. I agree that we shouldn't do so, however I would rather the Church bury its disagreements to focus on reaching people with salvation. If (petty) denominational disagreements push people away (and I have personal experience hearing people say just that), then we need to get off our denominational high horses and reach out as a unified body.
Did you guys know that church is actually mean't for Believers (Christians)? It says it right in the Bible. Acts 20:28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirt has made you (Christians) overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
Hebrews 10:19-25, 19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhortating one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
Of course, we don't shun the unbelievers away at all, we reach out to them. But Church was mean't for Believers to come together and worship God and learn more about Him. I think sometimes church reaches out to more of the unbelievers, but us Christians just as much need reaching out to too. We probably struggle more then unbelievers do, because we truly want to follow Christ and so satan trys to attack us in any way. I struggle a lot in wanting to follow Jesus and I feel satan always is attacking me either with people, anger, impatience, the world, etc. But we welcome unbelievers in our church and we truly want to help them become one of Jesus' followers. But only with God will we be able to do it, it's not us doing it, it is God.
Jennah wrote: "Excuse you, but when a person says that they are non-denominational that means that they don't JUST go to a church that reads the Bible. They go because they want to learn more about our heavenly F..."Jennah I am sorry if I offended you. I am not sure how. If I didn't great, but the capitals and the "excuse you" made it seem that way. Hopefully we can discuss this without getting upset.
Every Christian goes to Church to learn more about "our heavenly Father and worship Him." That is not the point, nor did I bring that up. Let me be clear here. The original thread was "what denomination are you." So in my opinion to say you are non-denominational does not let anyone know what you believe. That is all.
You keep saying you follow Gods word and not mans. So do Presbyterians, Baptists, etc...not? I believe you are implying that other Christians follow man and not God. Just because a man or woman may interpret and teach you the scriptures does not mean that you are not following God does it? Every good Christian will be a noble Berean and search the scriptures (Acts 17:11).
I am not trying to offend you here I promise. Thank you for your reply.
Josh wrote: "Jennah wrote: "Excuse you, but when a person says that they are non-denominational that means that they don't JUST go to a church that reads the Bible. They go because they want to learn more about..."Yes, I was offended at first, but I see what you are saying. I know now, that you aren't trying to offend me. Thanks for letting me know :) Anyways, I'm not saying that Presbyterians or Baptist are not following God's Words. I was just talking about Bible Churches in general, I wasn't refering to any other church not doing what Bible churches do. And we have pastors that teach God's Word, and Sunday school teachers (ladies and guys), I'm not saying that we don't have that. God uses all kinds of ways to teach us, He uses people and trials to teach us. And I know you didn't bring the subject up about
"Christians going to church to learn about God", I was just bringing it up.
Many people imagine we will get to heaven and God will say: "all you Baptists go over there, Anglicans to the left, Lutherans stay in the back, Catholics...well we'll see."I agree with Jennah that just becoming a Christian is not a denominational issue. In theology I try to be like the Church of the New Testament - so which one would that be these days?
Interesting and somewhat offensive comment by Josh: (not really to me though - I just don't care.)
"I use to say “we follow the Bible and not man” too, and now I cringe when I hear (or read) other people who say that. Stop saying that! All Christians that make up the church believe the words in the Bible and are unified by the Gospel."
I seriously doubt that Josh. Many Christians chose to ignore huge amounts of the Bible...and just let their Pastors spoon feed it to them for decades. Such is life. :D
I'm non-denominational because I can't honestly find a Christian sect that I fully agree with. I do bite my tongue and involve myself with numerous churches though. Many issues are not really worth fighting to the death over - and some are just fun theological challenges that I bring up in small circles.
We should be somewhat preparing ourselves to just be the Body of Christ that loves God's Word. But we'll probably have to wait for Heaven to get the absolute Truth about all of Scripture.
Rod wrote: "Many people imagine we will get to heaven and God will say: "all you Baptists go over there, Anglicans to the left, Lutherans stay in the back, Catholics...well we'll see."I agree with Jennah tha..."
THANK YOU! That's exactly what I was trying to get at.
The horse is nearly dead, so if you guys would like me to quit pounding ill drop my bat. Poor horse. Jenna originally said: “I am a Non-Denominational. I go to a Bible church which means they follow God's Word and God's rules and not man's words and there rules.”
The point I was trying to make is that to make that statement, it seems she is making an assumption that other Christian faiths do not “follow God and not man.” I am sure there are plenty of Churches out there that claim to be Christian that follow man’s rules. The point is that there are other Churches who follow God and not man that are part of a denomination. Furthermore, every false religion, cult, or bogus Christian Church out there would claim to follow God and not man. So this is really a song that everyone knows and need not be sung to the choir.
Rod you quoted me "I use to say “we follow the Bible and not man” too, and now I cringe when I hear (or read) other people who say that. Stop saying that! All Christians that make up the church believe the words in the Bible and are unified by the Gospel."
and then you said “I seriously doubt that Josh. Many Christians chose to ignore huge amounts of the Bible...and just let their Pastors spoon feed it to them for decades. Such is life. :D”
So I cringe when people say that they follow God and not men. Then you respond by saying Christians ignore huge amounts of their Bible and let their pastors spoon feed them? I don’t even know how to respond. Then again, maybe I do. First, any person who says their a Christian but ignores “huge amounts of their Bible” needs to question their Christianity, or at least tell us where they think the truth of their Christianity comes from. Also, I said "unified by the Gospel" which assumes true Christian faith. There was never a New Testament person who ignored Jesus’ words but was called a Christian or a follower of Jesus. You called this person a Christian, not me. Secondly, what is wrong with letting your pastor (spoon?) feed you the word of God? Didn't Jesus tell Peter to do this very thing (subtract spoon add sheep)?
I was trying to get you guys to say what your Church actually teaches and believes. Let me say this again: by saying you are part of a non-denominational Church you still haven’t told anybody what your church believes. You have only told us you are not part of a denomination.
This is an interesting discussion and for some reason you guys are avoiding identifying with any sort of belief system. Your church could be part of the IFCA or Calvary Worship. Similarly we have a very rich church history with a bunch of creeds and confessions of faith, does your church hold to any of those? I am guessing its not the Westminster Confession of Faith.
I have tried to use sarcasm throughout, that is the only way I know how to have some fun in these discussions. No you go and do likewise.
You are onto something interesting Josh. I partially agree with you. :DAre you familiar Josh with how different denominations favor certain areas of theology? This is not necessarily a bad thing - but it does lead to confusion and ignorance later.
Another huge issue is what to do with NEW Christians (or church goers?). Many churches I visit gear their sermons towards Christian life, and ONLY Christian life. This is okay - but it's only half of the story. It often seems very little theology and apologetics is taught in the modern church. This occasionally keeps everyone walking in baby steps and with very little foundation other than emotions and hopes. Eventually this collapses or gets very self driven.
So Josh the heart of your question is: Josh quote - "I was trying to get you guys to say what your Church actually teaches and believes."
I try to follow the Bible and just that. I understand how that can sound like a poor answer - but it really isn't. Here's why:
Anything the Bible doesn't specifically say is partially freedom for us.
Can we play Loud Rock/Country/Polka worship music in Church? What does the Bible say? It really doesn't - therefore this is a free area to do what we like respectfully.
How should we dress at church? Does the Bible clearly say? How long should our sermons be? Can we have women Pastors? What does the Bible say?
Some churches confuse the Israelite's Worship with Gentile Worship. What does the Bible say?
Do all churches trust the Bible? Some say the Bible is somewhat Inerrant.
I have visited Anglican/Lutheran/Catholic churches that were so boring and full of tradition they seem to pay little attention to the joy and excitement of the Bible.
Right now I attend a free Methodist church. But they have a few emphasis that I disagree with. No big deal though - they love Jesus and have a great outreach ministry. The Pastor seldom teaches any Wesleyan theology (did Wesley really have any theology? I don't think so.) :D
There's a lot of freedom in the Body of Christ. I hate to see that abused.
This is an answer to your first response Rod. Rod I would have to know what denominations or theological topics we are talking about. I don't like to swim in the ocean of generalities. A denomination that does not keep the Gospel central is like the Church at Ephesus who forgot how they became a Christian in the first place.
A Church should preach the Bible expositionally most the time to avoid your other "huge issue." The Bible keeps the Gospel central, people need the Gospel everyday, and that is the only solid rock any of us can stand on.
Rod wrote: "So Josh the heart of your question is: Josh quote - "I was trying to get you guys to say what your Church actually teaches and believes."
I try to follow the Bible and just that. I understand ho..."
Thanks Rod!
But the Bible is a big Book Josh. We are free to have sermons dealing with thousands of topics. It's wonderfully when they relate to the Gospel. Many pastors fail in this area. Not the end of the world. Many churches don't preach the Bible expositionally. We have different preachers for different folks. :D
The trickiest issue is that people are often growing in their Christianity. 8 year olds don't comprehend the Bible the same as teenagers...or 50 year veteran Bible professors. I'm very aware housewives with 5 kids need different teaching than those preparing for World missions.
I'm glad the body of Christ has: theologians, World religion experts, caregivers, Sunday school teachers, parking attendants, addiction and homeless workers - we need them all.
I often get told by atheists that the TRUTH about Christianity is: there are so many denominations and sects that with all that confusion it can't possibly be true.
Actually its the opposite: with all that freedom and variety we have a wonderful compassionate God who loves us.
However - God's Word is NOT that free. He means what the authors of scripture said. The literal parts are literal...and the poetic parts are poetic...the historical parts are historical...you get the idea.
Good discussion everyone.Rod, you said this: "I'm non-denominational because I can't honestly find a Christian sect that I fully agree with." Don't you think that if everybody did that, Christianity would be reduced to individuals sitting in their house by themselves, refusing to enter community because no one agrees with them? This hints of the whole "spiritual but not religious" idea.
I know that is not what you intend. But I also see hints of individualism. I think the beauty of Christian community is being around people you disagree with.
I also think it is interesting that this discussion has revolved around belief/head knowledge. How come we aren't identifying our church by what we do in the world? My wife's church has developed a relationship with an inner-city school, doing activities there all the time. They also do a huge collection for the local woman's shelter, the biggest collection the shelter gets each year. Why do we identify our churches automatically by belief and not by action?
Jesus had diverse followers - at least one zealot and one tax collector. I am sure these guys argued a lot, had little in common. I am also sure that as they did the work of following Jesus, their beliefs became more similar. Belief is shaped in the midst of action, I think.
I have said many times David that you still have to attend and support a local church. No one will find a perfect church on this planet - so you do the best with what you got. It's somewhat nice that few churches are filled with theologians. :D
Most congregations seem to blindly accept whatever their Preachers tell them. Occasionally this is nice. Indeed the state of Christianity is being with those you disagree with. It builds character.
We always need the individual bible students throughout the body of Christ. Imagine our World without a Martin Luther or William Tyndale.
Oh my gosh. Our church believes that God sent His only begotten Son to die on the cross for our sins and He rose again on the third day. We believe that God is the only true God. We teach His Word, the Words of God. That's what we believe.
I'll have to see if I can find something we disagree on Jennah. Hopefully not! But disagreements do lead us to explore our theology to it's core. :DIt was said of Dietrich Bonhoeffer that he didn't argue with anyone who wasn't his friend. (c:
Rod wrote: "I'll have to see if I can find something we disagree on Jennah. Hopefully not! But disagreements do lead us to explore our theology to it's core. :DIt was said of Dietrich Bonhoeffer that he didn..."
hahaha with everything that I have seen you say is exactly what I believe. But I am sure we have differences in some areas, probably more of the little stuff though.
Rod said,"I have said many times that you still have to attend and support a local church. No one will find a perfect church on this planet - so you do the best with what you got."
I understand and agree with Rod on the point of: if I am attending a Baptist church, I cannot say I am Baptist since I do not fully agree on the doctrine. I can say I am attending a Baptist church. If that makes me a Baptist in the eyes of others because I attend that church then so be it. I think it's best to just be called a Christian.
Tony wrote: "Rod said,"I have said many times that you still have to attend and support a local church. No one will find a perfect church on this planet - so you do the best with what you got."
I understand a..."
I think so too!
I am a Reformed Southern Baptist that is affiliated with the SBC.
It sure has been a long time since I have been on. My mother in law passed away and we are working on getting things settled with her estate. Which means less time for research and reading, which I miss! I also miss the lively discussions happening on theses book reads and topics! I am agnostic and came out of the Pilgrim Holiness Movement of NY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrim_...
For my part, I have been a member of two churches in my life. The first was non-denominational and my current church is Southern Baptist. I identify myself as a Christian first and Southern Baptist second, but do not study Southern Baptist teachers and theologians exclusively at all. In fact, I even disagree (gasp) with some of the convictions held by my fellow Southern Baptist brothers and sisters yet find a vast amount of common ground - thus I find it easy to lay aside any disagreements and submit to the leadership of my church.
Clark