THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

Members can discuss books or any aspect of the Battle of Britain in this thread.

Here is a new book offering a different perspective on the Battle of Britain:


by Richard North
Description:
Immortalised in Churchill's often quoted assertion that never before was so much owed by so many to so few , the top-down narrative of the Battle of Britain has been firmly established in British legend. Britain was saved from German invasion by the gallant band of Fighter Command Pilots in their Spitfires and Hurricanes, and the public owed them their freedom. Richard North s radical re-evaluation of the Battle of Britain dismantles this mythical retelling of events. Taking a wider perspective than the much-discussed air war, North takes a fresh look at the conflict as a whole to show that the civilian experience, far from being separate and distinct, was integral to the Battle. This recovery of the people s stolen history demonstrates that Hitler s aim was not the military conquest of England, and that his unattained target was the hearts and minds of British people.

Review:
"[The book] is brilliantly bold in its overview and rigorously forenstic in its analysis... I do urge you to read North's book, because it's riveting and devastating... What North has achieved here is admirable. He has set out to reclaim for the people of Britain the credit for a glorious victory which was stolen from them by the political Establishment." - The Spectator

Anybody have a favourite book on the Battle of Britain? So many good books on the subject. Some of my favourites are:

by Geoffrey Wellum

by Alfred Price

by Stephen Bungay

by James Holland

Please share with us your favourite book on this iconic battle of WW2.

Hi Rick,
I too enjoyed Wellum's book very much. I was lucky to meet him a few years ago to get my copy signed, and asked what happened to his instructor, who as you know features heavily in the early part of the book, and he said that he remained in that role for the war.

I also like
by T. E. Jonsson (the only icelandic Battle of Britain pilot)

by Leo McKinstry (Not wholly about the BofB but very good)

by Donald Caldwell

by Tom Neil

And a fine book that dispels the myth that the RAF was missing at Dunkirk and is a pre-cursor for the Battle of Britain
by Norman L.R. Franks

I prefer Richard Overy's revisionism on the BOB. As far as he's concerned, it would have been a surprise if Britian had lost.

Richard Overy

Thanks R.M.F. It's not one I've yet read: by Richard Overy

My book The German Aces Speak has some comments from four German pilots who fought during the Battle of Britain. I am working on Volume 2 now.

Thanks Colin by Colin D. Heaton

No problem. Some of the interviews with BoB pilots published years ago in the magazines are online at www.thehistorynet.com, such as Galland, Rall, Hrabak, Steinhoff, Wolf Falck, Hajo Herrmann, etc. These are abbrevaited versions, the book has the full interviews.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Here is a new book offering a different perspective on the Battle of Britain:


by Richard North
..."
I just finished this book and I was neither devastated or riveted! It read like a laundry list (16 Spitfires downed, 3 Luftwaffe casualties, 5 bombs dropped in central London) without any details that would have made me care...it did show the political infighting going on in Britain's leaders, but it was too repetitive and analytical. I like a little more human interest in a book!

I wondered if any members have read this one? by Anthony J. Cumming

Hi Tomi, thanks for letting us know about your reading experience of The Many Not the Few. I'm sure a few members will appreciate your views.

Geevee wrote: "I wondered if any members have read this one? by Anthony J. Cumming"

I've seen this book about Geevee but have not purchased a copy as of yet :)

I enjoyed this book on the Battle of Britain as it followed pilots from a British fighter squadron (609 Squadron, Royal Auxiliary Air Force) and their opponents from the German 1 Staffel/Jagdgeschwader 53 (1/JG53) the Pik As or 'Ace of Spades' Geschwader.

by Chris Goss

Another one of my favourite books on the Battle of Britain is this title:


by Tim Clayton

Here are a few I've enjoyed:

All good books Dr. Michael, thanks for adding them to the list.

Always good to get some recommendations from you Dr. Michael.


For members who aren't aware of Peter Townsend the author of here is a little about him - note the royal connection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_To...

Thanks for that information and link Geevee, sad to say I have a copy of this book sitting un-read in my library!

Maybe we can arrange a BoB theme read one month soon, any takers?

For those interested, the picture at the header for this thread is Robert Taylor's; 'Steinhoff Tribute'. A great painting don't you think?

Steinhoff and his family weere and still are great friends of mine. he was a very great guy to hang with. he was one of my best interviews.

A very interesting bloke for sure, I don't think there are any stand-alone books on him are there?

Thanks you for your kind words Geevee. And I must say it always bothered me when Pete Townsend would smash those guitars.

It's just his generation ;)

All good books but can they beat the dream combination of Michael Caine, Edward Fox, Robert Shaw, the baddie from one of the Bond films, and every other British actor from the 1960s/1970s :)

Sir Laurence Olivier, Trevor Howard, Christopher Plummer, Sir Michael Redgrave, Ian McShane, Susannah York. And as you've mentioned, Michael Caine, Edward Fox and Robert Shaw. What a cast. Great film.

It is a fine film indeed.

The aerial scenes were just out of this world - esp on the big screen!

A classic movie - you even see parts of the action scenes in documentaries on the Battle of Britain!

Dr. Michael wrote: "Sir Laurence Olivier, Trevor Howard, Christopher Plummer, Sir Michael Redgrave, Ian McShane, Susannah York. And as you've mentioned, Michael Caine, Edward Fox and Robert Shaw. What a cast. Great f..."

Indeed, and for some strange reason I own all the different DVD versions of it!

That is strange but I understand it. That might be even stranger.

You are spot on happy. The aerial photography is spectacular. As good as the aerial photography in The Blue Max and back then nothing was computer generated.

I now have to dig up my copy and watch it :D

I apologise for taking this thread away from a book discussion on the BoB to a discussion of what films you watch on a bank holiday weekend, but yeah, the Blue Max is up there as well, and you can add Aces High to that list!

They don't make em like they used to.

No worries R.M.F the threads weave a bit and the good thing is that it allows members to chat and it'll find its way back or we can always start a new one :)

good one GV ...


Geevee wrote: "It's just his generation ;)"

The interviewees in my book "The German Aces Speak" discussed the BoB. I am now working with Anne on volume 2 of that series, with Rall, Steinhoff and Hrabak who were BoB vets.

In addition to those mentioned already,

Here is one that has an interesting, nonconventional thesis
(view spoiler)[
the RAF didn't prevent the Operation Sealion, the threat from the Royal Navy did
(hide spoiler)]

Happy thanks for this and you may be interested in a book I have on my TBR along similar lines:

by Anthony J. Cumming

Here are another two books covering aspects of the Battle of Britain:


by Max Arthur
Description:
After the fall of France in May 1940, the British Expeditionary Force was miraculously evacuated from Dunkirk. Britain now stood alone to face Hitler's inevitable invasion attempt.

For the German Army to be landed across the Channel, Hitler needed mastery of the skies - the RAF would have to be broken - so every day, throughout the summer, German bombers pounded the RAF air bases in the southern counties. Greatly outnumbered by the Luftwaffe, the pilots of RAF Fighter Command scrambled as many as five times a day, and civilians watched skies criss-crossed with the contrails from the constant dogfights between Spitfires and Me-109s. Britain's very freedom depended on the outcome of that summer's battle.

Britain's air defences were badly battered and nearly broken, but against all odds, 'The Few', as they came to be known, bought Britain's freedom - many with their lives.

These are the personal accounts of the pilots who fought and survived that battle. We will not see their like again.

by Alex Kershaw
Description:
By the summer of 1940 World War II had been under way for nearly a year. Hitler was triumphant and planning an invasion of England. But the United States was still a neutral country and, as Winston Churchill later observed, "the British people held the fort alone." A few Americans, however, did not remain neutral. They joined Britain's Royal Air Force to fight Hitler's air aces and help save Britain in its darkest hour.

The Few is the never-before-told story of these thrill-seeking Americans who defied their country's neutrality laws to fly side-by-side with England's finest pilots. They flew the lethal and elegant Spitfire, and became "knights of the air." With minimal training and plenty of guts they dueled the skilled pilots of Germany's Luftwaffe in the blue skies over England. They shot down several of Germany's fearsome aces, and were feted as national heroes in Britain. By October 1940, they had helped England win the greatest air battle in the history of aviation. At war's end, just one of the "Few" would be alive. The others died flying, wearing the RAF's dark blue uniform-each with a shoulder patch depicting an American eagle. As Winston Churchill said, "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."

I read both those books, AR and would highly recommend them as well

Another book I would recommend is the following:

Operation Sea Lion: The Projected Invasion of England in 1940

by Peter Fleming

Synopsis

The invasion of Britain by Nazi Germany which never happened......Operation Sea Lion. The author, brother of Ian Fleming, was involved with the government in planning for the expected invasion and provides an insiders look at the year 1940 when things were looking bleak for Great Britain. But Hitler made mistake after mistake when trying to bring England to her knees; the first being that he missed his chance immediately after Dunkirk when England was at her weakest. Hitler did not understand the British and certainly could not relate to Churchill and the determination of the English people. He thought he could talk them into withdrawing from the war or accept concessions from Germany to stop fighting. Churchill's words....." Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war"........kept morale up and even the Home Guard, often ridiculed, played an important part in the preparations. Hitler also didn't understand the dangerous waters of the English Channel and the difficulty he would face crossing, with the Home Fleet and the RAF in front of him and the weather against him.. He underestimated the RAF and that the destruction of the Group Sector Stations was his chance through attrition which might have led to Britain's defeat in the air. He postponed Operation Sea Lion several times and finally abandoned it when he turned his eyes toward Russia. And the rest is history. This is a must read for the WWII buff and is a five star book in my opinion.

I read Peter Fleming's --

One's Company: A Journey to China in 1933.

It was good. he was Ian's elder brother.

I may have to look for that one Manray9.....he is very readable.

Jill wrote: "I may have to look for that one Manray9.....he is very readable."

He was a much more prominent and successful writer in the Thirties and Forties than his brother -- that is until the advent of James Bond.

I just watched a Top Ten show which had a section on fighters. It was interesting in regards to their comments on the Spitfire. They seemed to conclude that the Spitfire was a fighter that was needed for the British to win the Battle of Britain, but wasn't the fighter that won the Battle of Britain.

Dj wrote: "I just watched a Top Ten show which had a section on fighters. It was interesting in regards to their comments on the Spitfire. They seemed to conclude that the Spitfire was a fighter that was need..."

Wasn't it true the Hurricanes significantly outnumbered the Spits?

Hurricanes shot down more aircraft in the battle. They were sent to apprehend the bombers with Spitfires where ever possible tackling the fighters but at the start of the battle there were two thirds more RAF squadrons with Hurricanes that Spitfies. The Spitfire was the darling of the RAF and the public and helped morale at home. It was cultivated by HM Govt and the papers and newsreels of the time were not unknown in attributing victories to Spitfires at the cost of the actual Hurricane involved (not offical figures of course). There were active Buy a Spitfire funds within local communities having fundraising dinners, dances and donating money, other items and buying war bonds advertising Spitfires.

This campaign in favour of the Spitfire could also help against Germany as talking up numbers and manufacturing capacity of this faster and all metal fighter helped to have a negative effect on German morale (note the Adolph Galland quote on Spitfires to Goering). I suspect that much like in Europe in 1944/45 where many reports of tanks were first given as Tigers reports of Spitfires may have been Hurricanes).

In my view the Spitfire - beautiful to see and hear as it is - took arguably more than its fair share of the laurels at the time. With radar (Chain Home) and the Observer Corps plus the young pilots from Britain, the Commonwealth, Poland, USA and elsewhere the Hurricane and Spitfire won the battle together.

Jill wrote: "I may have to look for that one Manray9.....he is very readable."

Not WWII I know but two more books for the elevating TBR tower! Peter Fleming books which are worth reading: Brazilian Adventure about the search for Colonel Percy Fawcett who disappeared in the 1920s and Bayonets to Lahsa about the British invasion of Tibet. (I don't think there are many countries in the world where the British soldier hasn't served!) Read them both many years ago but fascinating accounts. Currently reading - Margaret Macmillan's book is next up. The BBC's massive WWI output is also building up on my TiVo box!
Going to be some time before I get back to the second round (WWII)! Regards Ian

Well they did mention that the Spitfire was a good looking aircraft, they also put it on the list whereas the Hurricane didn't even get an honorable mention.
Part of their reason for putting the Spitfire on the list was that it served for a very long time.
But I liked the fact that they did point out something of what they called the 'Spitfire Mystique' Which might also be something that could also be leveled at the Tiger Tank as well.




Geevee wrote: "Hurricanes shot down more aircraft in the battle. They were sent to apprehend the bombers with Spitfires where ever possible tackling the fighters but at the start of the battle there were two thi..."

Spitfire on my Tail

I'm currently reading this, the view from the other side. It's well written, in the way that books translated from German have a nice flowing style and an easy feel to it.
Steinhilper is not overly fond of his superior the infamous Adolf Galland, and singles him out for criticism on several occasions.
After reading Wellum's 'First Light', 'The Hardest Day' by Price, and 'The Most Dangerous Enemy' by Bungay, it was nice to get an opinion and see what it was like from the Luftwaffe point of view. You will find that a German fighter pilot's opinion is not that far removed from a British pilot's.