The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

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Here we learn that Miss Matty had a serious beau at one point in her youth. She runs into him unexpectedly, and becomes quite undone by the meeting. Mr. Holbrook, on the other hand, seems to be really happy with this meeting and invites the ladies to dinner. Instead of seeing societal norms broken by Mr. Holbrook, Matty sees quaintness and finds everything wonderful.

Matty's attachment to Mr. Holbrook becomes more apparent upon the news of his illness. She becomes very depressed and somewhat ill herself upon the news. When he dies of this illness, Matty takes stock in young loving hearts. Previously she allowed no gentlemen "followers" or callers for her maid. She rethinks this upon the loss (for the second time, and now a permanent one) of Mr. Holbrook and tells her maid she may have callers as long as they are respectable men. Matty still wants approval of them, but it's a big step forward.

You can't help but wonder how much Matty regrets her decision to refuse Mr. Holbrook. Gaskell suggests to us that Matty was influenced by her family to refuse him. Yet, here is man who appears to be successful, have interesting adventures (his trip to Paris), and seems to be a kind, happy soul. Maybe Gaskell is showing us that perceptions of class may not be the best way to choose or dismiss a potential husband.

Again, a very poignant chapter-I was hoping for a late life rekindling of an earlier love.

Two points that struck me on reading this chapter:

1. I too was surprised by Miss Matty's age-I felt her to be much older. I wonder how much older her sister would have been, and what sort of lingering illness might have killed her (and Miss Brown). I would imagine tuberculosis, possibly cancer, heart disease would be less likely at the time although there might have been more heart failure because of valvular disease following things like rheumatic fever. Does anyone know what these lingering diseases tended to be?

2. In a similar vein, what happened in Paris that might have killed Holbrook? Or do you think it was coincidental? A cheeky part of me suspects an STD (syphillis? Hepatitis?) but I'm sure that would never even be hinted at. Typhoid or other food-borne illnesses?

Finally, I have become intrigued by the Narrator-we know she has a father (whose shirts she darns) but otherwise have we learned a name or anything else about her?

Frances wrote:
2. In a similar vein, what happened in Paris that might have killed Holbrook? Or do you think it was coincidental? A cheeky part of me suspects an STD (syphillis? Hepatitis?) but I'm sure that would never even be hinted at. Typhoid or other food-borne illnesses?

The sudden departure of Holbrook to Pairs and the fact that he had made a statement to the effect that if he did not go to Paris now he may never have the chance to see it followed shortly by his death on return made me wonder if in fact he was not already ill, and was aware of the possibility of his on coming death and so he wanted to have one last experience/adventure before he died. This may also be what led him to reappear in Matty's life again, the knowledge of his approaching death made him wish to see his former love once more time before he died.

I think it is also interesting how this experience had allows Matty to start to slacken upon her sisters strictt rules a bit, her own experience. She did not want to be the cause of anyone else feeling the regret which she felt, and so she gave Martha more lee way to entertaining gentleman callers. Perhaps she can start to come more out of her sisters shadow now and be something of her own person.


Frances wrote:Finally, I have become intrigued by the Narrator-we know she has a father (whose shirts she darns) but otherwise have we learned a name or anything else about her?

I find the question of the unknown or nearly unknown narrator an interesting one as well, until she had mentioned the darning of the shirts I was not even positive if in fact the narrator was a man or a woman. We know that she is not a resident of Cranford, but someone who comes to visit and she seems to have been close to Deborah. Also, though I am not positive, I thought when she was talking about her father, she mentioned he was a rector but I would have to double check that.

With regard to the narrator, in the introductory notes in my book, it indicates that the narrator is named in a later chapter.

Deborah wrote: "With regard to the narrator, in the introductory notes in my book, it indicates that the narrator is named in a later chapter."

I'm not sure if it's in this chapter, but the narrator very briefly mentions that the reason she delays her departure from Cranford (and so stays at both Matty's and Miss Pole's) is because her father didn't want her to come home. I thought that was odd and waited to hear more by way of explanation, but nothing more was said.

Deborah wrote: "Here we learn that Miss Matty had a serious beau at one point in her youth. She runs into him unexpectedly, and becomes quite undone by the meeting... Matty's attachment to Mr. Holbrook becomes more apparent upon the news of his illness. She becomes very depressed and somewhat ill herself upon the news. ..."

The narrator makes an interesting observation about Matty's health and her secret beau:

"This effort at concealment was the beginning of the tremulous motion of head and hands which I have seen ever since in Miss Matty."

Funny how things come back around... while there are probably all kinds of neurological explanations for 'tremulous motion' in people (I have friends who are somewhat afflicted with the same), modern medicine would completely agree with the narrator about stress being the source of this (and many other) malady. When I think of Katherine Hepburn, and how secret she tried to keep her private life with Spencer Tracy, coupled with the narrator's diagnosis for 'tremulous motion,' it gives me pause.

I agree with Silver regarding Holbrook's illness. I believe it was stated that he was 70 years old. Taking that together with his statement about wanting to travel to Paris while he still can, I think it's logical to assume he was in failing health. I felt so sorry for Mattie - she seems incapable of making decisions for herself after years of living with her overbearing sister. I'm hopeful that dining with Holbrook and her decision to allow Martha to have "followers" are indications that she might depart from some of her sister's rules and arrange things to suit herself.

Holbrook was 70, that´s pretty old for the time right? I feel bad for Matty too, that she never had the courage to stand up for what she wanted when she had the chance. I could relate more with Miss Jessie, who rejected a marriage proposition to take care of her sister and father, at least was her decision.

I found it funny how english authors speaks of france in general and in this case of Paris, as an unhealthy city where there is always revolutions. While french authors tell us that England is this cold and polluted country.

The English people of this period were very much influenced by effects of the long Napoleonic wars which drastically affected the economy and killed a lot of young men, hence communities of spinsters who disliked the French, like those in Cranford, were quite common. The same thing happened after the horrific slaughter of WWI, when prejudices against Germany became entrenched.

I guess the hate endured for a long time as the Napoleonic wars ended in 1815 and this book was written in the early 1850´s. And in general I think there wasnt much love between England and France for some centuries (in literature, at least) since they were the great forces of Europe (along with Spain).

Older women like those in Cranford would have grown up in the Napoleonic wars and would have lost their fathers, sweethearts and brothers in them. In chapter 5 Miss Matty says: '...my father preached a whole set of sermons on the occasion; one set in the mornings, all about David and Goliath, to spirit up the people to fighting with spades or bricks, if need were; and the other set in the afternoons, proving that Napoleon (that was another name for Bony, as we used to call him) was all the same as an Apollyon and Abaddon.' and she later speaks of the 'twelve Buonaparte sermons' written by her father, which Peter had to copy out as a punishment.

In her novel Sylvia's Lovers, written in 1863, Gaskell wrote about 1790 when press gangs were roaming the English countryside seizing young men for service in the Napoleonic wars. She called it the saddest story she ever wrote. Much of her writing is in retrospect.

There still isn't much love lost between the French and the English. When my mother gave me a French Christian name (not Madge!:)in 1933, my grandparents refused to call be by it.

Of course, Matty was an older woman. If in my youth another country would invaded my country I´m sure I would be pretty mad too.

MadgeUK wrote: "Older women like those in Cranford would have grown up in the Napoleonic wars and would have lost their fathers, sweethearts and brothers in them. In chapter 5 Miss Matty says: '...my father preach..."

Ok Madge, now you have to tell us...what's the french name?

Never revealed on the internet:D.

Madeleine? Marianne? Magali? Marguerite? Manon? Gemma?

So glad to see I'm not the only one with a sense of curiosity.

Marguerite is my second name - hence Madge:D. First one is Hush Hush!!

Deborah-thanks for the positive spin on my "curiosity".

Madge-Marguerite is a lovely and regal name.

MadgeUK wrote: "Marguerite is my second name - hence Madge:D. First one is Hush Hush!!"

So much better than Deborah! My parents had a fight about my name so I got stuck with a second choice of theirs.

Careful, Deborah-we named our eldest daughter Deborah as we considered it both feminine and strong-a name that would suit a little girl and a Supreme Court Judge. (Funny how as a parent you always want your children to be strong, and then it comes back to bite you when they are teenagers. This too shall pass, I guess.)

Frances wrote: "Careful, Deborah-we named our eldest daughter Deborah as we considered it both feminine and strong-a name that would suit a little girl and a Supreme Court Judge. (Funny how as a parent you always ..."

LOL. Back in the day, Deborah was a name that was sorely overused. In one case, there were 7 of us in a class! I was supposed to be Dawn, but they argued over the middle name. Ten years later when my sister was born, they named her Dawn. At the time Dawn had become an overused name. Kind of funny. For me, Deborah always sounds way too formal for the person that I am; Debbie is too childish; so I usually just go with Deb.

Deborah wrote: "...Debbie is too childish..."

Oh, I know several wonderful, mature "Debbie"s! One is a well-respected therapist.

I love the idea of "Deborah" being suitable for a Supreme Court judge. What a wonderful vision of suitability, even if not an overly desired actuality, for a daughter! (The Biblical Deborah stories are worth an occasional re-read.)

I was surprised when starting junior high to find that there were FOUR Denises (including me) in my music class! There had been one other Denise in kindergarten with me, but I didn't encounter too many other girls with my name. I was named after the French actress Denise Darcel. My mother says she thought that she was so pretty. They had also considered Theresa and Christine, probably more suitable for a Roman Catholic! Somehow, I ended up with French first and middle names, even though I am half Irish and half German!