Modern Good Reads discussion

Welcome to the Thrillers and Mysteries section of Modern Good Reads. My name is John Dolan and I am happy to be your discussion Moderator and friendly guide through the world of blood spatter patterns, fiendish puzzles, psychological heart-stoppers and things that go bump and boom in the night. Whether you are into cosy crime, hardboiled detectives or adrenalin-fueled yarns this is the place for you.

I would just like to reiterate we are a discussion group for readers of books, not a billboard for author advertisements. Authors are welcome (hey, I should hope so as I'm one myself!) but please restrain that marketing instinct, guys and girls.

So let's have some fun. Witty and thoughtful posts will be given standing ovations, while anyone who says anything naughty will be sent to bed without any supper.

By the way, I only take my hat off on very special occasions.

What if they are witty, thoughtful, *and* naughty? Naughty is a good thing.

I've recently realized that more than any other type of book, I like the series mystery. When they're done well, nothing can beat the depth and ease of character or richness of the world. At their worst, well, not the worst way to kill a few days.

Witty, thoughtful and naughty gets you a standing ovation AND no supper. Hey, nobody said life was fair. (Well actually a kid in my class at school did say that once but we didn't take too much notice because we were all going off for a cigarette behind the bike sheds at the time.)

For myself, Neil, I like a book with a good central puzzle to tax the grey matter, hopefully while the book in question is also giving me some good characters to like/hate/feel ambivalent about.

I'm curious about the different types of mysteries and thrillers within the category. I tend to like all of them, but am curious about definitions of cozy mysteries versus thrillers/suspense. How do you define them? And are there other sub-categories?

Joyce wrote: "I'm curious about the different types of mysteries and thrillers within the category. I tend to like all of them, but am curious about definitions of cozy mysteries versus thrillers/suspense. How d..."

Hi Joyce. I always think it's a wee bit perilous to get into exact definitions because there's always someone around to quote marginal cases or exceptions. However, I did see recently (and I forget where) an interesting distinction between mystery and thriller. The writer concerned said that he thought that in a mystery the reader generally only knows what the main protagonist knows, but in a thriller the reader might know more than the protagonist knows.
There are probably about a squillion possible sub-categories of these genres. I guess we tend to put them into the boxes that make sense to us. For instance a "cosy crime" novel is one I'd give my Aunt Agatha to read, whereas I probably wouldn't wrap up "The Silence of the Lambs" for her as a Christmas present.
I'm particularly interested in anybody else's take on how they would distinguish a thriller from a mystery. I think at the boundary they slip into a grey area - although not 50 Shades of a Grey Area ...

On the chapter by chapter side, mysteries usually tend to have a lot of talking--cops or PIs talking to people, reconstructing histories, etc.--in order to find a solution to a death. Thrillers tend to focus more on action, so while there may still be a mystery in it all, the thriller has a protagonist with more at stake and invested in the central plot (and thus, also in more danger) than the investigator in a mystery.

And then there is suspense... which in my mind is/or can be a whole different set of books. What do you think? I read an interesting comparison between Mysteries and Suspense
Mysteries - the murder or event happens at the beginning and then throughout the book the protag. is trying to solve the crime.
Suspense - there is the threat of the crime but the story is the prevention of the crime happening

To me Thrillers are a lot darker and more violent (not sure why I think that but I do), does anyone else think this?

John, trying to make another distinction here. You would give your Aunt Agatha for a cosy crime novel? ;-)

Shane wrote: "John, trying to make another distinction here. You would give your Aunt Agatha for a cosy crime novel? ;-)"

Yes, that's right Shane. Aunt Agatha has had the whole manuscript of "4.50 From Paddington" tattooed over her body; so she will make an excellent Christmas gift for someone :-)

Thanks for clearing that one up for me :-)

Shane wrote: "Thanks for clearing that one up for me :-)"

My pleasure :-)

Anthony wrote: "On the chapter by chapter side, mysteries usually tend to have a lot of talking--cops or PIs talking to people, reconstructing histories, etc.--in order to find a solution to a death. Thrillers ten..."

This is close to how I distinguish a thriller from a mystery. Thanks, Anthony. A mystery focuses on the path to solving the problem while suspense/thriller focus on the action getting there.

Maggie wrote: "And then there is suspense... which in my mind is/or can be a whole different set of books. What do you think? I read an interesting comparison between Mysteries and Suspense
Mysteries - the murder..."

Hi Maggie. I think it's interesting the way folks put things into categories in their minds, and I wonder to what extent we are conditioned by the 'label' that someone has attached to a particular book that made an impression on us. Take, "Silence of the Lambs", for example. It's not really a whodunnit (feel free to disagree btw!), but is it a psychological thriller (could be) or a suspense novel (could also be) ... you could also make a case for it being an 'action novel' I suppose??? Hmmn ...

Joyce wrote: "Anthony wrote: "On the chapter by chapter side, mysteries usually tend to have a lot of talking--cops or PIs talking to people, reconstructing histories, etc.--in order to find a solution to a deat..."

So, Joyce, would you say a mystery is about result where a thriller is about process?

Suspense is more a marketing term than a genre, because pretty much any good mystery/thriller must have suspense in order to be effective. Suspense is an effect.

Anthony wrote: "Suspense is more a marketing term than a genre, because pretty much any good mystery/thriller must have suspense in order to be effective. Suspense is an effect."

Which category of book would you put Kafka's 'The Trial' into? (Note: 'Literature' is not allowed!!!)

Existential literary fiction!

I think the existentialists (at least Camus) really liked he hard-boiled American writers like Hammett and James M. Cain.

Anthony wrote: "Existential literary fiction!

I think the existentialists (at least Camus) really liked he hard-boiled American writers like Hammett and James M. Cain."

Cheat :-) I love Camus, btw

John wrote: "
Which category of book would you put Kafka's 'The Trial' into?"

Political satire.

Just read it again (for about the 100th time).

John - re: the difference between mystery and thriller, I heard a well-known mystery writer describe it this way:

A mystery is about find out who did it. A thriller is about stopping the guy before he does it.

Another writer said when you get to the fourth dead body, it's a thriller.

John, where is the appropriate place to RECOMMEND a good read?

Pete wrote: "John wrote: "
Which category of book would you put Kafka's 'The Trial' into?"

Political satire.

Just read it again (for about the 100th time).

John - re: the difference between mystery and thril..."

Ha. I love it, Pete. I guess that makes Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None" a thriller, then? Hmmn ...

Pete wrote: "John, where is the appropriate place to RECOMMEND a good read?"

Pete, we've got a thread up for Favourite Mysteries. Let me post one up for Thrillers. Just - For - You :-)

John wrote: "Maggie wrote: "And then there is suspense... which in my mind is/or can be a whole different set of books. What do you think? I read an interesting comparison between Mysteries and Suspense
Mysteri..."

John, I think we are very conditioned as to what category we put books into however I'd say that each of us to some degree has a different category we default to. I know that a book I read I labelled suspense, another person labelled it a thriller and yet another one labelled it a romantic suspense. So it would seem that each of us focussed on something different in the story and therefor labelled it that way. It definitely makes it interesting for categorizing books.

Maggie wrote: "John wrote: "Maggie wrote: "And then there is suspense... which in my mind is/or can be a whole different set of books. What do you think? I read an interesting comparison between Mysteries and Sus..."

You are not wrong, Maggie. My view is that a "category" needs to have some meaning for ME - and that makes it a personal issue: meaning that I'm not interested in other people's definitions of categories.

I'm wondering whether I couldn't ultimately divide up my library into six categories:

1. Non-Fiction, Reference
2. Non-Fiction, Non-Reference
3. Fiction, Primarily Cerebral
4. Fiction, Primarily Emotional
5. Absolutely Fabulous, Subject Matter Immaterial
6. Books That Are Mainly Pictures

John wrote: "

Pete, we've got a thread up for Favourite Mysteries."

What, you goofin' on the new guy? Or do I need to clean my specs?

Some of the best mysteries are the ones that cant be solved.

Isaiah wrote: "Some of the best mysteries are the ones that cant be solved."

True in life, Isaiah - but try doing that to a mystery aficionado and you'll find yourself with a new orifice.

Need some assistance...a lady at work, well, her mother saw a book commercial just the other day and is interested in it but doesn't know the title. This is the info I was able to get. There are 4 children on the cover and it's about murder. I know, not much to go off of, but being that she just say it a few days ago I thought maybe someone else on here might have seen it to and would know the name or author of the book.

Thanks in advance!!!

I have to admit to listening to more thrillers than I've actually read, simply because it streams 24/7 on Internet radio. But there's a cornucopia of pithy half-hour radio plays out there, magnificent examples of the genre - Philip Marlow, Sam Spade, Suspense, Escape, written by unsung masters of the cliff hanger who churned out weekly content to a reasonably high standard, and it's free!

Marni wrote: "Need some assistance...a lady at work, well, her mother saw a book commercial just the other day and is interested in it but doesn't know the title. This is the info I was able to get. There are ..."

Hi Marni. Sorry, I don't think I can help on that one. Suggestion: the lady goes to Amazon and looks at murder/crime/thriller top 100 sellers to see if the (recognisable) cover pops up at her!

Greg wrote: "I have to admit to listening to more thrillers than I've actually read, simply because it streams 24/7 on Internet radio. But there's a cornucopia of pithy half-hour radio plays out there, magnific..."

Greg do you have any website links that you'd like to share with us on this?

John wrote: "Greg wrote: "I have to admit to listening to more thrillers than I've actually read, simply because it streams 24/7 on Internet radio. But there's a cornucopia of pithy half-hour radio plays out th..."

Please note that the group rules do not allow for posting of one's book or site links on reader threads. It's considered self-promotion. Feel free to request such directly from a member, but posting promotion links is accepted on any thread in the Authors' Corner folder only, or threads specifically stating their acceptance. Thanks so much.

Chris Shields
Modern Good Reads
Founder, Group Moderator

John wrote: "Marni wrote: "Need some assistance...a lady at work, well, her mother saw a book commercial just the other day and is interested in it but doesn't know the title. This is the info I was able to ge..."

Thanks for that great suggestion John!

Christopher wrote: "John wrote: "Greg wrote: "I have to admit to listening to more thrillers than I've actually read, simply because it streams 24/7 on Internet radio. But there's a cornucopia of pithy half-hour radio..."

Chris wrote, John wrote Greg wrote...but I wasn't talking about my work, rather the useful facility of Internet radio in delivering pithy examples of the cliff hanger. Is that also taboo here...?

Maggie wrote: "And then there is suspense... which in my mind is/or can be a whole different set of books. What do you think? I read an interesting comparison between Mysteries and Suspense
Mysteries - the murder..."

Personally, I think thrillers are more exciting, but that be because I write them. In my opinion, when the reader gets to "see" the actual crime, it provides an entirely different level of fear. The thrillers, I've found, tend to be more violent and graphic in nature. Exploring the darker side of the human nature and testing how much we can handle. I believe someone here has already likened the dark/violent side. If done correctly they can scare the pants off the reader with a simple paragraph of description. Lisa Jackson is a great example of this. Or Edgar Allen Poe is a VERY prime example of this with his tales. "Pit and the Pendulum" or "Tell-Tale Heart"... These are both gruesome and twisted.

Some mysteries, while not all of them, provide that thrill of seeking out clues and getting a bit of a scare but without the gruesome and/or graphic nature of a Thriller. In a mystery, the reader may get detailed descriptions from the crime scene, but more times than not, they are from a cop, witness, etc. It's like Thriller lite lol. :)

I've read and enjoy both, however, I much prefer Thrillers over mysteries.

I pose a question to the group though! What draws us, authors or readers, to the thriller side. Why are we drawn to tales of graphic violence? I'm not at all implying we are crazy, but the only answer I can offer for myself is. . . I don't know!!!

Marni wrote: "John wrote: "Marni wrote: "Need some assistance...a lady at work, well, her mother saw a book commercial just the other day and is interested in it but doesn't know the title. This is the info I w..."

You're most welcome, Marni :-)

Greg wrote: "Christopher wrote: "John wrote: "Greg wrote: "I have to admit to listening to more thrillers than I've actually read, simply because it streams 24/7 on Internet radio. But there's a cornucopia of p..."

It's fine Greg. Fire me over a message here on Goodreads with some links and we'll get a thread started. I'm sure there are other mystery and thriller readers on here that would like to know about appropriate internet radio shows of this type!

John wrote: "Welcome to the Thrillers and Mysteries section of Modern Good Reads. My name is John Dolan and I am happy to be your discussion Moderator and friendly guide through the world of blood spatter patte..."
It was always a mystery to me why Cowboys go to bed in Long Johns and die with their boots on ! Just kidding.
We are inundated with violence from the day we are old enough to see. But like most of us we write what we know, we write within a comfort zone. Thrillers are in my mind the result of the more male gender. Men go to war, police & the rough and tumble neighbourhoods of crime. In my time in Africa & Eastern Europe I have seen more men inside the turmoil than women. I have seen executions and part of a genocide, never have I seen a woman be the villain. Mysteries have now also become the womans domain. More & more of the crime Mysteries are now written by women, Janet Ivanovitch, Kellerman, Tami Hoag & Linda Fairstein to name a few. In fact the mainstream of Mystery writing is now in the hands of women. I read both, but to write a novel I will always draw on my experiences. Like Proust said...only write what you know! I think this covers the division of Thriller & Mistery...Can you see the 'London Strangler ' being written by a woman?

Christine wrote: "Personally, I think thrillers are more exciting, but that be because I write them. In my opinion, when the reader gets to "see" the actual crime, it provides an entirely different level of fear. "

I certainly understand why the thriller genre is so popular - and why thrillers sell so well! It's the adrenaline factor.

I've enjoyed most of the thrillers I've read (all of Lee Child, a few Michael Palmers, most of Nelson DeMille, etc.) - but my preference is that the true violence/conflict take place between the characters' ears. What thrillers do (I think) more than mysteries and crime is command more of the reader's attentions to external events (because they are "bigger!").

They excite a different part of the brain, I think.

It was explained to me in a very simple way. "Thrillers work because the protagonist is our hero, his action moves adrenaline to our hearts, while the antagonist is most likely a character we can associate with 'Hemorrhoid in running shoes' or in plain simple close to an a-hole! For myself I like thrillers because a few times a played both parts of the sector.

Sorry but I write futuristic crime thrillers that are gritty and dark edged and I am a woman. I've written in romantic lines and elements for publishers yet most of those are drenched with dark elements. My science fiction is extremely dark and gritty and one reviewer called my Isadora DayStar "not for the faint of heart."
In fact, Crucifying Angel, the first book in my Future Imperfect crime thriller trilogy has been re-released as a paperback. Most people get scared of the title!

P.I. wrote: "Sorry but I write futuristic crime thrillers that are gritty and dark edged and I am a woman. I've written in romantic lines and elements for publishers yet most of those are drenched with dark ele..."

P.I., While I appreciate your regular and insightful commentary across many categories of our group, I want to remind you of our policy against authors promoting themselves on our reader discussions. We have an Authors Corner for authors to discuss their work. I'm hopeful that you read the rules of posting. They specifically address this, and are very clear. Please read them and keep them in mind. Thanks for your understanding,

Chris Shields,
Modern Good Reads,
Founder

I apologize Chris! It's such habit posting my stuff I sometimes come off the wall and post promo when I shouldn't & I do get my groups confused!

P.I. wrote: "I apologize Chris! It's such habit posting my stuff I sometimes come off the wall and post promo when I shouldn't & I do get my groups confused!"

Thank you for your understanding, P.I.

John & Fellow Group Members,

Will somebody review my thriller? I have a FREE KINDLE (8/14-8/18) download to make it easy for you.

http://www.amazon.com/Mexican-Girl-Ma...

S.C. wrote: "John & Fellow Group Members,

Will somebody review my thriller? I have a FREE KINDLE (8/14-8/18) download to make it easy for you.

http://www.amazon.com/Mexican-Girl-Ma......"

SC,

You should have a look at our Group section on R4R which is where this post belongs. It's the quickest way to get reviewed!

Best,

John

A very interesting discussion on the differences between mystery novels and thrillers, but I think the definition depends on which side of the Atlantic you live. I recently did a fair bit of research into crime fiction and it appears that in the US crime fiction is simply mystery and detective reminiscent of the golden age of crime writing which focuses on the puzzle element. Everything else is thrillers. I even found authors like Agatha Christie and Arthur Conan Doyle listed as thriller writers. However, looking at it from the UK perspective thrillers are less in evidence and are listed in reference volumes as a subsection of crime fiction. I would agree, however, that in a mystery, there has to be a crime and an investigation, while a thriller is more action based, similar to an adventure novel.

Chris, many thanks for this clarification! As a thriller writer, I could not have said is better.

Judith wrote: "Chris, many thanks for this clarification! As a thriller writer, I could not have said is better."

I did the research for a nonfiction book I wrote and it was while I was doing my research I came across these differences. I found it very interesting.

Then you throw in the definition of suspense? I was surprised to learn from an agent that my novel is a psychological suspense, which means that the reader gets into the mind of the killer and into the mind of the victim. The difference between thriller and suspense? I think its a cloudy issue and as evidence by genre divisions when entering your novel into contests, I think everyone else doesn't see much difference. But there is. There is!