Old Books, New Readers discussion

Chosen in our polls, this months book will be The Time Machine. We will discuss it here, argue the best and the worst, and how we feel about the charters. Also post any book reviews that you might write here.

Yay!!! I've wanted to read the full version of this book for a long time.

I am super excited. I may have voted for the "Scarlet letter" but I think in the end I really wanted to read this book.

Lol I have remembered the little kids version I read, and i've read it several times over haha

It's a classic of the genre.

Getting the book from the library on Tuesday, so excited.

Oh right! thanks for reminding me lol I need to get it tomorrow I'm going to the library XD

This is one of my favorite books of all time. I read it at least once a year. It was also the very first sci fi book I ever read and it kicked me off on a long list of fantasy and science fiction books which have become one of my favorite genres.

This is my second time reading this book. It's been SO LONG since I first read it, but I remembered it being so good.

Well, it's still good. But it's really kind of neat to have such a different perspective on it with subsequent readings.

This time around, I pick up on the social commentary that the author tries to slip in. It seems that he bashes a bit on communism and doesn't seem to have much faith in his fellow man.

I also find it interesting how reckless the main character seems to be. He seems rather selfish and doesn't really think things through. It had to take years to perfect a time machine, but he seems to live for the moment.

I will say that, if you were a wise prudent and forethoughty person, that you would never start time traveling in the first place. Anybody with common sense, who has read some in the genre, knows that it is fraught with peril. Therefore, if you want to write about a time traveler, he either has to not be an agent in it (kidnapped thru time, that kind of thing), or he has to be impulsive and not think things through.

I think you're right, Brenda. After all, if time travel did go well, wouldn't it make for a rather boring story?

The name of the game, in writing fiction, is It Does Not Go Well. If it ever does Go Well the author is missing a bet. (I should say that I have written novels both ways. One with a kidnapped-through-time hero, and now with a prey-to-impulse, what, me prepare? kind of person.)

Got it yesterday, read the first chapter this morning. Then re-read three more times. I have never been very good at dimensions, the whole idea is above my head, but I think I have finally grasped the idea. The opening three sentences are unlike any book I have ever read. How Wells describes the scene without really describing it and from the first person when it looks like the third. Amazing. Ready to take on chapter two.

Oh and chapter one sounds very familiar, I think I might have read this book when I was too young to understand it and then forgot.

Finished reading it today! Woo!

How do you find the time to read. I am a teacher and I enjoy reading but I am having a difficult time finding the time to read. When I am not teaching, I am at home planning and grading papers. Anybody have some tips and secrets to share.

I read for about fifteen to 20 mins before I go to bed, it calms my mind and helps clear out any stress I am feeling that day. Also I bring a book with me everywhere, so whenever I am sitting at the park or waiting for a family member somewhere I read.

Erm I read this book all in one night :3 lol I read fast though, and it was a shorter book than the ones I'm accustomed to reading...so that may have had something to do with it as well. Honestly the time to read is whenever you have a spare empty moment that needs filling ;)

I read this some time ago. I don't remember much details, but I know that I was not impressed, maybe bit dissapointed. The plot is naive, especially the time machine. The characterisation is black and white. I expected much more from this book.

It seems to be just simple someone writing it down from a journalists point of view...I've often played with the idea of writing a different version, where it's like it's actually happening and the characters are a little more realistic. But yeah, it just seems pretty blase overall.

Brenda wrote: "I will say that, if you were a wise prudent and forethoughty person, that you would never start time traveling in the first place. Anybody with common sense, who has read some in the genre, knows ..."

Agreed - there's no way anyone who gave it too much thought would take such a risk, especially with as little evidence of success as the main character in this has. That being said, I rather like the rash sort who dive in and think later. I definitely have a touch of that myself.

V wrote: "How do you find the time to read. I am a teacher and I enjoy reading but I am having a difficult time finding the time to read. When I am not teaching, I am at home planning and grading papers. Any..."

If you take the bus or carpool, you can read while you're in transit. Otherwise I'd say just make yourself about 15-20 minutes of free time before bed, after lunch, or something. Someone once told me you just have to "make time" for things, and that's really true. When you make it a priority, you find the time somewhere. Prioritize a little down time for yourself every day where you can read or just relax. You may find yourself actually getting more done in a day with a little rest planned in, so don't think you're "wasting time".

Heh, this is a rather fitting thread for this discussion, isn't it?

Quinn wrote: "Heh, this is a rather fitting thread for this discussion, isn't it?"

If only I had a time machine, I could find more time to read?

Since the plot would never kick into action (or would be horrifically dull) if the hero was not boldly impulsive and daring to travel through time, yeah -- that's how these heroes usually are!

A cannot believe how little testing the Time traveler did before going himself. To me that just seems so weird. A little machine disappears so it is obviously safe? He had no idea where that little machine ended up.

Or even if it worked...

That seems to be a tradition with explorers, particularly the old sort, from Edwardian and Victorian times. People would just get up in the morning and decide to join an expedition to Antarctica or something. There was no googling for weather conditions, no blogs that would warn you that the pay was lousy and that your toes would turn black and fall off.

Nope, just "hey I feel adventurous today! Have at thee!"

That is almost exactly how "journey tot he center of the earth" starts. One day we will read that. But it was the same, no trails or slowly inching your way into something. You just jumped in with both feet so to speak. Same way with "Around the world in 80 days." No planing, just took a bet and was off the next day.

It carries through even to SF, particularly things like the Heinlein juveniles. The kid gets up in the morning and decides to build a space ship in the back yard. Next chapter, they're landing on Mars. No hassles at all!

But apparently it was quite historical. Ernest Shackleton ran an ad in the paper to get people to sign up for one of his expeditions to the South Pole ("Safe return improbable" is the money quote), and lots of applicants turned out.

"Safe return improbable" Hahaha! But in hind sight, there was not as much to do indoors. No TV or internet it would be a fine adventure.

Just by coincidence, this is the book I'm reading to my daughter as a bedtime story. I had read it at her age, and I'm surprised by how much utopian musing there is. I just remember the adventure stuff.

"Safe return improbable"- I read that post out loud and my daughter commented, "Well, they WERE British..."
Then we went and looked it up: Shackleford was Irish. "Oh, "said the other daughter, "THAT explains it."

Have you read Shackleton's memoir?
I got a tee shirt at an Antarctic exploration museum that says, "Scott for scientific method, Amundsen for speed and efficiency. But when disaster strikes and all hope is gone, get down on your knees and pray for Shackleton."

This is actually quite hard for me to get through. I keep putting down with a yawn of boredom.

Imagine all the characters have a steampunk left arm that runs on steam.

Christa - Ron Paul 2016 wrote: "This is actually quite hard for me to get through. I keep putting down with a yawn of boredom."

It's funny how thrilling it was to me when I was in fifth grade. It seems that he is making a point to be anti-Utopian. Back then, everyone assumed that the future would be better, with novels like Looking Backward. Wells spends a lot of time musing about how good he originally thought the future was, only to be proven wrong. Today, we are used to a post apocalyptic dystopian future, so this idea is not so groundbreaking (and thus a bit boring). Same with the "idea" of time travel. Still, I think there's quite a bit of excitement to come.

That is an excellent pair of observations about timeliness: the timing within your own life when you read a book, and the timing of the book within the larger culture.
I remember having to explain some British terms to my girls as we read Sherlock Holmes. One kid commented that whenever they had to chase a bad guy, they hailed a hansom rather than jump in their car. Interesting learning going on there. It keeps the past alive for us.

It suprised me how different my idea of the future and H.G. Well's are. I imagine that humans will somehow merge with technology, such as exoskeletons. However, Well discovers that humans have evolved into two seperate groups. After reading this book, I could see this happening. The western world is dependent on those in the eastern countries for garments and many other items. I find it interesting how Well's creation is still applicable today, over 100 years later.

Meg wrote: "It suprised me how different my idea of the future and H.G. Well's are. I imagine that humans will somehow merge with technology, such as exoskeletons. However, Well discovers that humans have evol..."

Right, well, Darwinism was at that point the revolutionary idea, which Wells was playing with. Cyborgs were not I think part of the scientific imagination, although if anyone can correct me, I'm happy to hear it. In the utopian books of the time, people just like modern human beings live in a modern paradise. The time traveler originally says, OK, if the world is perfect, and there is no more danger around, the human species would involve into flabby little babies. Of course, his origin view of that world is far from the truth, but it's a nice poke at Utopianism.

Something caught my attention yesterday as I was reading. There is no family units. In a perfect world after all there would be no need for it. They live in a type of communism, the upper-landers don't really work, but they sleep altogether, they play altogether and they have a community. They are all a big family. How strange.

Okay, I just finished a few moments ago. And my decision is I liked it! Four 1/2 stars.

I loved the second to last chapter where he was talking about how the earth was ending. Growing old through the millenniums ever so slowly turning and slowing down to a creeping halt. It transported my away from my reading nook and onto a rusty red beach watching the earth stop moving. That was amazing.

After reading this book, I can see why it's a classic. It definitely stands out on its own due to the imagination of what the future would be like. The character is kinda blah, but with his observations, it gives the reader the opportunity to reflect on the meaning of the book for themselves. I actually saw the movie a couple of years ago with my mom before reading the book. Just a side note, I kinda liked how the movie expanded the story instead of changing it like movie people do nowadays. The last line of the book just really brings it all together. It gives it all a sense of completeness and wholeness. I really liked this book overall.

i love it.. it's different, than the sci-fi books I'm used to reading... i think this is the first Dying Earth sub-genre that I've read, and really, this novella is awesome.

I think it is the only earth dying novel I have read. I once read a short story by someone on goodreads about the earth dying that was pretty good, but I am not sure if that counts.

I thought this was a very interesting book. :) I liked the explanation of the different dimensions and Wells' ideas for the future were very fascinating. I'm not sure I necessarily agree that there will be divergence of the human species into two totally different species, but the reasoning behind it seemed sound for the time it was written in. :) I think the ending was a little disappointing, only in that I REALLY wanted to know what happened to the time traveler. ;) :) Wells' description of the Earth slowly dying was fascinating, as well. Again, I don't agree with his vision but it's still fascinating. :) I guess I disagree because I've taken a lot of classes in the different sciences and we know so much more today than what we knew in Wells' day. Overall, I still found the book really good and I'm glad I finally got to read it. :)

I think it was neat those effects he came up with though, like something that came out of a movie but long before movies existed!

I read this one for school and I really enjoyed it.

I didn't mind the ending. I felt like ultimately time traveling was going to mess him up anyway so I guess it kinda fits.

I don't care for the big bang theory but did you ever watch the episode where he purchases the time machine from the movie? It's the only episode I ever watched and it was kind of funny.

Our prof had an extreme distaste of both movies especially the second because it was so screwed up and produced by a relative who the prof thought "should have known better."

I just read this for my Catch-Up Challenge. I vaguely remember watching of the films with my dad when I was a kid, so I was interested to read the book. While I did enjoy the story, I wasn't crazy about the structure of the narrative. Several chapters of being told what happened rather than being shown through the Time Traveler's eyes was frustrating. But I did find the ending--the Traveler disappearing and his friend waiting in shock and later concern and confusion to be quite poignant.

I just finished this for my Catch-Up Challenge. I found the descriptions of the future to be very imaginative and the insight into the role of intelligence to be thought-provoking. I loved the ending, especially the last quote.

"And I have by me, for my comfort, two strange white flowers –shriveled now, and brown and flat and brittle–to witness that even when mind and strength had gone, gratitude and a mutual tenderness still lived on in the heart of man."

The Time Machine (TTM) is one of the selections on my 2017 Catch up Challenge list. {SPOILER ALERT} As always, my comments have some spoilers, so use caution reading this.
1. I rated this with 4 stars out of 5. In general, I felt that this was by far the bleakest look at humanity that I had read for quite awhile. Maybe the Yuggoth invasion from H. P. Lovecraft is darker, simply because the hideous Shoggoth creatures from the Cthulhu Mythos are typically summoned, intentionally or not, with human intervention. But in TTM, I see a grinding evolutionary force that originates in the Victorian dichotomy of the “haves” versus the “have-nots” (or capitalist versus laborer, in the Time Traveler’s lingo). That evolutionary force leads to permanent exile from each other for those two classes, and it makes them violent enemies. I think HG Wells had a well-founded concern for the best social and political pathways to address the dichotomy he saw in Victorian society. I will explain that concern in a separate note, but for now, I will say that we see signs in the U.S. of a very similar division asserting itself in the Tea Party movement, the White Nationalist movement, and other extremist groups. The U.S. is supposed to be the land of opportunity for all who come here, but the reaction to that policy, which is positive inclusion, has left those people wondering where the opportunity is for them, with stagnant wages and a sense that the people at the top are getting all the benefits. This is a perfect situation for authoritarian figures like Trump and many others to blow dog whistles that summon the inherent racism of those who are left behind. In short, this book is an excellent reminder of how inherent disorder can lead to complete social and political breakdown. Quite bleak, I think.

2. Is this a good story? I always ask that question when I read a piece of fiction, especially science fiction. That is the first thing I look for. The answer is yes to that question but with a big proviso: it is also a science romance, which is for me an odd term that places it squarely inside the science fiction genre. HG Wells himself used the term “science romance” to group both his science fiction and his fantasy stories together. Over time, however, he seemed to drop the division for fantasy stories and group them all together under the term science fiction. I think a case can be made to retain that distinction for fantasy since it is not dependent upon the knowledge of science or scientific theory. For example, “Alice through the Looking Glass” has a clear fantastic feature that is very distinctive from any science theory or speculative science. But I understand that over time, the book reviewers of HG Wells developed a special meaning for the term science fiction based upon a strict reading of evolutionary or astrophysical theory. I fully agree with that interpretation. It is very possible to describe as “science romance” any work characterized by long evolutionary perspectives; by a focus on long vistas brooded upon by meditative protagonists. That is certainly the case with TTM. But I would add that for all the massive dystopian ruin in TTM that occurs 1 million years and more in the future, it is also a kind of morality tale that rang as true to the Victorian readers of HG Wells as Pilgrim’s Progress did to fundamentalist Christian readers in the 1680’s. I think it is also on the scale of genuine Gothic horror fiction, only updated to include key issues from the late Victorian science standards.

3. I notice that almost all readers of TTM, at least on Goodreads, apply a strictly literary premise on which to base their understanding. They seem to recoil, as it were, from discussions of biological science and evolution in particular. But TTM is deeply ingrained with both Darwinian evolutionary ideas as well as many other scientific disciplines. So I think it is a serious oversight to ignore those scientific issues, and far better to look at TTM from the perspective of the science of Victorian knowledge at the date it was written in 1895. First, it is very important to know that HG Wells studied at Britain’s Royal College of Science at Kensington, and at London University, where he graduated with honors. He also taught science for five years, and then turned gradually to journalism and finally to writing books. His repertoire over time included novels, stories of scientific imagination, character novels, histories, and social and political commentary. I will add more on his social and political commentary separately. Second, scientific events of 1895 included: (i) the first rolling lift bridge; (ii) the first electrically operated rapid transit system in the U. S, was installed in Chicago; (iii) the world's first portable handheld electric drill was developed; (iv) the telediagraph was invented (the forerunner of the wire photo); (v) the cinematograph motion picture film camera was developed; (vi) the first practical application of electromagnetic waves was developed (important in astronomy); (vii) X-rays were discovered; (viii) ecology was founded as a scientific discipline; (ix) quantified data about the sensitivity of global climate to atmospheric carbon dioxide was published; (x) the atomic weight of helium was determined; (xi) the Linde cycle used in the liquefaction of gases, especially for air separation, was determined; (xii) an important condensation chemical reaction called the Fischer-Speier esterification reaction was confirmed for how esters are formed; and (xiii) a parasite called Trypansoma was discovered in the tse-tse fly. In short, many important events in chemistry, medicine, natural science, physics, and technology were in progress in his day, and he was probably alert to most of them. They certainly assisted him in developing the picture of ecological ruin that he provided in TTM.

4. HG Wells was an evolving socialist over time. He was for a time a member of the socialist Fabian Society, but he broke with them as he intended them to be an organization far more radical than they were. His most consistent political ideal was the World State. He stated in his autobiography that from 1900 onward he considered a World State inevitable. He projected that this World State was to be a planned society that would advance science, end nationalism, and allow people to progress by merit rather than birth. He was a strongly anti-Marxist socialist but he did consider some actions of Lenin and Stalin to be appropriate for what he hoped would become the new World State. But he rejected the Soviet Union because he considered Stalin's rule to be far too rigid, restrictive of independent thought, and blinkered to lead toward the World State he hoped for. He also favored eugenics for awhile, even saying, "I believe... It is in the sterilisation of failure, and not in the selection of successes for breeding, that the possibility of an improvement of the human stock lies." He witnessed many failures, such as the uselessness of the League of Nations in preventing World War II. And his political star waned during the 1920’s and 1930’s as the terror of the oppression in the Soviet Union and Germany spread, and he died in relative obscurity in 1946. He grew quite pessimistic as he even wondered if the idea that humanity being replaced by another species might not be a bad one. He also came to call the post-World War II era "The age of frustration.” As the ultimate insult, Wells had stated that his epitaph should be: "I told you so. You damned fools." However, his wish was not granted as he was cremated and his ashes were later scattered at sea. In summary, his biography is a fascinating look at what drove his story-telling impulse. I think he was very much a believer in the strength of scientific applications to improve human life, but also an extreme skeptic as to any improvement in the curbing of greed and self-aggrandizement in human culture over time. His world view in the year 802,701 for the human race, with its split into the useless Eloi and the dangerous Morlock, describe that world view. It is a world of human social ruin, brought on by deep class and social segregation of each from the other.

5. The philosophical, scientific, and sociological hub of the book seems to be in Chapter 6, and I recommend readers take the time to go through that chapter to be acquainted with the reasons for HG Wells’ skepticism about human culture. The segregation of the classes that he describes will lead, over thousands and thousands of years, to distinct speciation changes. It is likely that the forebears of the Morlock interbred with the forebears of the Eloi and thus kept a reliably human genetic grouping intact. But as the division sharpened, the opportunities for genetic sharing disappeared, and they each developed many differences from each other and likely no longer could now produce surviving offspring from each other. This is a basic Darwinian evolutionary process well documented with cichlid fishes and many other species. This creates a permanent self-enforcing separation that cannot be breached unless enough compatible genetic “accidents” or mutations allow for it. In the absence of similar conditions between the upper world and the lower world, there is little ecological impulse to encourage interbreeding.

6. HG Wells makes a curious reference to a writer named Grant Allen in Chapter 8. In that chapter, the narrator wonders at what he sees as “white figures” moving furtively as though they are “mere creatures of the half-light.” Then he writes, “They must have been ghosts,” I said; “I wonder from whence they date. For a queer notion of Grant Allen’s came into my head and amused me. If each generation dies and leaves ghosts, he argued, the world at last will get overcrowded with them. On that theory they would have grown innumerable some 800,000 years hence, and it was no great wonder to see four at once.” (Grant Allen, by the by, was a very popular science fiction and Gothic horror writer of HG Wells’ time.) But the narrator says “this jest” is unsatisfying. He then completely forgets it as Weena begins to occupy his time and interest. What I find interesting is that in some allegorical or at least symbolic ways, the Morlock are indeed the “ghosts” of very bad class organization, segregation, and racism over many years. As “ghosts” from that earlier time, the Morlock are only now developing serious skills in the methods of retribution against the Eloi. They certainly have the planning skills to set a trap for him when he finally returns to the time machine inside the White Sphinx. Of course, he does not realize that until the end, and he has no way to warn the Eloi before he escapes.

7. HG Wells has a journalistic narrative approach. It creates an automatic detachment from the events he describes. That viewpoint does not particularly stress me as a reader, but it has the effect of creating events that seem personally perilous, and yet also removed from immediate peril for the reader. Its main downside, for me at least, is that the characters all seem fairly flat. There is no perspective that makes them special or unique. I think the narrator makes some attempt to fill out Weena’s hopes of some kind of permanent attachment to the narrator, but he does not recognize that need until it is too late. We have no clue as to where his next trip in time is to take him, but I think it is reasonable to assume he will find a way that helps her stay safer. The fact that he does not return for over three years suggests he has found a home of sorts in the future. At least that is my thought. Other readers probably have very different ideas about his next destination with the time machine.