Speaker Geeks! discussion

i believe in free will...

I am from India and more than 80% of marriages happening here are arranged marriages. It is thought that its a pride to have marriage arranged and a shame to go for love marriage where the groom is not chosen by the elders of the family. If we question the system of arranged marriage, the answer we get is - We are your parents, shall we think bad about you? We also had arranged marriage, and look we are some happy being more than 20-30 years together.

Now the situation is it becomes hard to answer the question asked by parents than shall we think bad about you etc etc. But the air of revolution has started a bit though I will have to go for arranged marriage only as other things will not be accepted by parents and its hard to hurt them by going against them.

We have seen our parents having arranged marriage, so at the end it depends on the person not the type of marriage.. both arrange and love marriages fail.. so may be it depends on individuals (No I am not advocating arranged marriages)

others must be lucky to have love in their relationship despite that it's arranged...

I agree with you H99, but its hard to convince parents of this. If we deny to marry person of their choice, then all comes like we brought you up for this day, why shall we think bad about you, etc?

My parents love me and given me all they could, and no matter how much things change, change in mind set in respect of arranged marriage is going to take a very long time.

And even if some parents agree for love marriage, comes the issue of caste. There are so many small small caste divisions like agarwal, gujarati, south indian etc etc, that things get stuck up here. Lots and lots of courage is required for that change to happen and there will have to be a rebel person for it.

I am too soft to rebel against them and make them understand that choosing own partner doesn't have any relation with not respecting parents etc. Some rebels are needed for this change to happen.

Yes. Even at my home. If he/she belongs to a particular caste, they have prejudiced opinion. I always reply to this that we too belong to some caste, and there will be other people who shall be making opinions on us the same way we are making about others without meeting them.

And I totally agree that marriage should be a personal decision. One should go for marriage when they are ready for it. Else everything becomes a compromise. Whole life becomes a compromise.

I have a friend. In her community, kids are engaged at age of 16-18 without even seeing the groom or bride and after the engaged is finalized, they are shown the picture. How pathetic is that. And that friend of mine is a chartered accountant. Everytime I meet her, she is so unhappy about marriage. Are the parents happy now doing that to her? It feels pathetic and helpless.

I think that arranged marriages are fine as long as the bride and groom both agree to marry each other. I mean my parents had an arranged marriage and they both love each other.

Tasmia wrote: "I think that arranged marriages are fine as long as the bride and groom both agree to marry each other. I mean my parents had an arranged marriage and they both love each other."

Yeah, I agree with Tasmia.

Tasmia wrote: "I think that arranged marriages are fine as long as the bride and groom both agree to marry each other. I mean my parents had an arranged marriage and they both love each other."

Agreed

H99 wrote: "Tasmia wrote: "I think that arranged marriages are fine as long as the bride and groom both agree to marry each other. I mean my parents had an arranged marriage and they both love each other."

My..."

I don't know really. My parents met in college and got married three months later. They were both each others' first dates, first kisses, first everything. But my dad has siblings with arranged marriages--some of them came out well, but one of his sisters looks like she can't tolerate her husband at all.

It will be like that.Some will be happy, some will be unfortunate.

We can't all be happy(The world is so big and Humans are too many)...
In arranged marriage your parents got to choose(your parents wouldn't choose a good-for-nothing if they love you....though You can't really know someone until you live with them) but in our way i got to choose.
So i'm lucky enough to have a freedom of choice, but it doesn't guarantee that i will be surely happy.

I think it'll depend on your situation, partly. Arranged marriages mainly occurred during times when people got married at 13. When you're 13, you aren't mature enough to make a life-long decision like that and you're parents are better qualified.

However, in today's day and age you don't get married until you're about mid 20's, early 30's so it's a different situation. Most people are already living on their own and caring for themselves, and at that stage they are able to make a decision such as a marriage for themselves, with their parents approval.

True.

No. No. No.

H99 wrote: "ShilvaH (christine/tintin) wrote: "It will be like that.Some will be happy, some will be unfortunate.

We can't all be happy(The world is so big and Humans are too many)...
In arranged marriage you..."


Well, we can only hope for better.

H99 wrote: "ShilvaH wrote: "H99 wrote: "ShilvaH (christine/tintin) wrote: "It will be like that.Some will be happy, some will be unfortunate.

We can't all be happy(The world is so big and Humans are too many..."



Of course we hope and do something.
cause if you hope and do nothing, don't expect good outcome.

(Well i don't know exactly what you're going through...I'm just someone in the internet BUT)

The choice is yours, if you feel your parents are dominating your life and you tell yourself that you don't really have a choice then that's really unfortunate.

Kaylee wrote: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Yx7...

Have you seen this? I thought I'd share.

I never realized what a big deal arranged marriage is, because where I live it's..."
I STARTED WATCHING THAT A FEW WEEKS AGO!!! I felt so sick D:

Aashi wrote: "I agree with you H99, but its hard to convince parents of this. If we deny to marry person of their choice, then all comes like we brought you up for this day, why shall we think bad about you, etc..."

i dont think that "south indian" is seperate caste... just saying

They are usually good what I've heard. I'm not married, neither intend to.It's too much responsibility. So my views about it would be close to futile.

I know my opinion must be completely against the tide but I am pro-arranged marriage. I live in Brazil, where many dates do not even show any interest to know and socialise with the girls' folks. As a person who has spent nearly one third of her life and the whole of her adult life looking for a decent suitor, I would accept someone picking possible matches for me, no drama. I know it seems utopic, but if parents are able to leave aside any greed, need of social status and having in mind the best interest of their son/daughters (that means their character, personal habits, ambitions, education level, taste as well as if they do want to get married and at what age) why not allow them a try? I think things start to rotten when the match is imposed as a duty and the bride/groom had no participation in any part of the process. That is implicit violence, of course.

I believe arranged marriages are okay, I can see the point where two people are looking for love but are getting nowhere on their own. I only believe in arranged marriages when the people who will get married are consenting to an arranged marriage though.

I believe arranged marriages are okay, I can see the point where two people are looking for love but are getting nowhere on their own. I only believe in arranged marriages when the people who will get married are consenting to an arranged marriage though.

I can't remember who said that but what I have observed, analyzed in the relatives' relationship..

Now look! pros of arrange marriages (in India):

-Parents select the bride/groom cause they know what the person wants from her/his soul mate!

-Your selection/falling in love/etc doesn't take future into account; newbie mistakes.

-Since you know the one you love very well; after marriage it wont feel that special. An abyss of cliches. (Hey you like that music...you: *yawn* hmm)

-Will have more respect for each other.

-Less likely to get divorced

-From good/equivalent family background

-Family relationships will be joyous from both the sides. From social aspects; all the sides. (Viz: If you go ahead and take my piece of cake without asking, most probably I wont like it; but if we make a(n) pact/arrangement then things will go smooth)

-You wont be called selfish with a resulting resentment all around

-Wedding ceremony will be grand! As everyone of the family will celebrate together and every occasion too. India is full of such occasions.

-Adventurous; 'new' company is exciting, 'Old' is bland..

Con(s):

-She/He may turn into a witch/darklord and suck your youth and fly back to the dungeon in the south-west mountain..

PS:- This may appear as old/conservative thinking, but as I mentioned already, I've no intentions of marrying anyone, ever. It's too much work; plus I have lots of books to read and each year it's flooding with new waves. I may get a bunch of Sphynx and brag about it.

Som wrote: "I can't remember who said that but what I have observed, analyzed in the relatives' relationship..

Now look! pros of arrange marriages (in India):

-Parents select the bride/groom cause they know ..."

I am also pro-arranged marriage - mainly for cultural reasons - BUT parents alone selecting the groom or bride isn't always the best choice. Parents always assume that they know the best for the child but that is not always the case. Sometimes the child turns out to be someone completely different than the parent would have thought to have raised and the person they 'pick' for them will not always be the best choice.

As well, I think that if you truly love someone, marriage won't mean that your relationship feels less special; if anything it should feel the same if not stronger.

Also, when it comes down to it its not necessarily selfish to not want your life partner picked out by your parents. Who you marry is the person who you are supposed to spend the rest of your life with. Is it really selfish to not want that decision made without your complete consent?

I'm going to have to say I have my own qualms about marriage in general (it's mostly how society makes marriage soooo important, but I digress). No, I don't have anything what so ever against people who marry, but it's just my personal opinion of what I'd want for myself. So an arranged marriage especially doesnt sound like a very good idea to me. For cultural reasons I can't judge, because I am not very well educated on such matters. Unless someone is getting hurt or abused. But people should be able to choose who they want to marry or spend their life with, because it's their life and they'll be the ones who will have to deal with it. Parents don't always know best for their child, especially when it comes to their love life.

@Kaylee
Well said. I agree with you on sending your girls away (at only around 13-18) to marry men (25+). It's terrible. If my mum would send me away to get married whether who I was married was my age or 30+... *shivers*

Kaylee wrote: Why would you want spend your entire life with someone you don't even LOVE?

And I know that sometimes they might grow to love each other, and that's cool, but that's a pretty big might to take.

and

Dating someone might not consider that, but I think that's what marriage is about. Deciding to spend your future together. I also think, that if your future wealth is what's being considered, I find that wrong. I think marrying someone for money is wrong.

-But, isn't it a necessity? Can you define "love"? Does it include selfless entities? You love someone, at that instant, it's all selfish. You can't be happy if that person is happy with someone else, end of the day. So the definition of love becomes an usurped function of selfishness. So why money is a material that's blurred in the context. Doesn't love-materialism dichotomy explain itself in the light of a relationship?

Also, I don't understand why divorce is such an inherently bad thing.

If both people are unhappy together, they should divorce. People change, constantly. They deserve to be happy.

-It's not a bad thing but if you take social dogma of a particular countries you'll see the differences. You can't really define 'bad'; viz: in some planet in distant universe maybe brushing your teeth is a crime.
So in India it's considered as a very sad outcome of a relationship. Society and relatives treat the divorcees in a weird way; they discuss about it and pity them now and make them live an uncomfortable life.

Yeah, family might be joyous, but is the PERSON IT AFFECTS HAPPY?

-Happiness lies in acceptance. If you love your parents too much, you eventually want them to make the decisions for you. Their decision maybe selfish but their selfishness source is derived from your happiness.


Old is safe. Old already loves you. You don't have to make a good impression on old.

-...That's what parents say!! But people still change after, even if they love before the wedding. Viz: Pam and Jim Halpert from 'The office'. It's just a tv-show but that happens a lot in real life.


And for god's sake, DON'T SEND THIRTEEN YEAR OLD GIRLS OFF WITH OLD MEN FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE. That's a thousand kinds of wrong.

-Yep it's wrong in so many ways. In some villages they do so; it's abolished in many places though as it's a heinous crime. It's just that those families are poor; by poor, they are on a brink of death without food and other basic needs. Morality in survival?
Old wealthy men (used to) take the advantage of that.

Cool topic.... :D ...wait I will go back to intro , intro myself then come back here . Oh I so love to debate :D

H99 wrote: "Carrie wrote: "I know my opinion must be completely against the tide but I am pro-arranged marriage. I live in Brazil, where many dates do not even show any interest to know and socialise with the ..."

No no, I'm talking about the wedding couple being chosen by the parents of the bride and groom, by intimate acquaintance, lots of conversation and the best interest of both always in first place (not money or social status). Can you tell me more about how is it made in India?

H99 wrote: "Kaylee wrote: "H99 wrote: "Why would anyone want to be stuck with someone who they don't love? There are fewer divorces BECAUSE HEIR FAMILIES WILL OSTRACIZE AND HATE THEM IF THEY DIVORCE. They're s..."

But wait a minute. Is there NO possibility of the person saying "Please, I'd rather stay single for a while?" Adulthood has to mean being married?!

Som wrote: "Kaylee wrote: Why would you want spend your entire life with someone you don't even LOVE?

And I know that sometimes they might grow to love each other, and that's cool, but that's a pretty big mig..."

That's really sad.

I think the main problem lies in the word marriage. I don't think being arranged or love change anything, what matter the most is happiness. Many love marriages fail so does arranged. There are pros n cons in every aspect of life. Sometimes you find love even in most absurd place and sometimes the most loved ones shred each other to pieces. If parents really looking for happiness then they would not pressure the girl and will wait for whom she chooses from the many suitors and if she doesn't then respect her decision. Sometimes parents knows what her daughter choose as love of her life isn't right for her, they try to make her understand and she rebel, later they are proven right. Same goes with arrange ones. Sometimes parents make mistakes and couples are stuck together. So I think it all comes down to understanding and true happiness of the person and the goodwill of parents. Until they all work together let it be arrange or love it will fall apart.

I don't understand one point. If we learn to love and live with parents, siblings, etc., is it not possible to learn to love an arranged husband/wife?

|Augusti| wrote: "I think the main problem lies in the word marriage. I don't think being arranged or love change anything, what matter the most is happiness. Many love marriages fail so does arranged. There are pro..."

I guess you have a point there!

H99 wrote: "|Augusti| wrote: "I think the main problem lies in the word marriage. I don't think being arranged or love change anything, what matter the most is happiness. Many love marriages fail so does arran..."

I know in India how prejudice parents are. I don't think I would ever have this situation, my father would always respect my decision and I Wil not be forced into submission to something I am not willing to moreover I don't think he even could because I m a rebel LOL. But again my father won't do any such thing and if I wish to stay unmarried I bet he will respect that decision too.

H99 wrote: "Carrie wrote: "I don't understand one point. If we learn to love and live with parents, siblings, etc., is it not possible to learn to love an arranged husband/wife?"

They are people you are relat..."

Well, in that case, knowing I had no choice, I would try to list all features that make him relatable/likely to me and do my best to try to avoid/diminish the ones I did not like. Which is basicaly the same I do with my mother, with whom I live!

H99 wrote: "Carrie wrote: "H99 wrote: "Kaylee wrote: "H99 wrote: "Why would anyone want to be stuck with someone who they don't love? There are fewer divorces BECAUSE HEIR FAMILIES WILL OSTRACIZE AND HATE THEM..."

That's really impressive. They'd rather have an unhappy son/daughter than a single one?! Insane.

I suppose we'll have to disagree on this one. I've always thought of love as "when a person's happiness is your happiness" which is a rather selfless definition.

I also still think marriage for money is wrong. I *don't* mean that you can't marry a wealthy person and be pleased with the money, but I don't believe that should be a big determining factor. Because in the end, money alone will not make you happy.

"Happiness lies in acceptance."

I don't think so. Not for me, at least. Happiness lies in well, happiness.

That doesn't make much sense, I suppose. But I believe happiness is something created by yourself, and although other people play a major role, at the end of the day it comes down to you, and what you want.
................................
That's exactly my point. All the "love" I have seen, never encountered that definition. End of the day you want something from the one you claim to 'love'. So where's the essence of love marriage if it's just a selfish act in the first place!

I suggested money is a necessity, not the absolute factor; a broke couple can't be a happy couple; but they can be, only when they can accept their state/condition. If you accept your situation then you're a happy person; and if you whinge for more without accepting what you can get then happiness is lost in the process.
It's created in yourself if you 'accept' the nature of the reality you're surrounded by. Then only you can scrutinize the problems, make a prognosis about your situation and make way for the future. If you live in denial (negativity); you'd be entwined in miseries because preparing factors would corrode along with it.
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But the longer you know someone, and the more you know them, the better off you'll be to handle a change.
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You're right but it's still an opinion, not a fact.
Since 'love' (between two random people; not paternal, maternal etc) in this materialistic world is selfish, you can't guarantee that! Not even a tad bit!

So if there's a new person in your life, she/he will try to understand each others' current state of mind and how to deal with those changes; meanwhile the lover will just gasp in shock from time to time and whinge all the time about the change.
Viz: (Natalie Portman voice) "You weren't like this! how could you!! No, it's not you!! You are not the one I fell in love with" etc lol

When your choice becomes the choice of someone's else; there lies the goodness. You are no longer in the zone of selfishness. You become water; where nothingness is the most pleasurable thing (zen mentality).

And yep, I'm OK with divorce too. If they want to be happy separated, what's the fuss about! many societies won't agree though.
..................................

Everyone here is saying that Love or Arranged, it depends on two people etc etc.

But I think the main crux of the topic was - Arranged Marriage - without the free. Arranged marriage - Because Love marriage isn't allowed?

I guess this was what topic meant to be about.

Like, Arranged marriage is not only widely acceptable form of marriage in India. Love marriage is kind of disgrace for family. Thousands and crores of castism problems.

So in this context, the concept of arranged marriage is wrong - If it is against free will.

Well enough if you yourself say parents to find a groom and have a arranged marriage then not an issue..

Aashi wrote: "Everyone here is saying that Love or Arranged, it depends on two people etc etc.

But I think the main crux of the topic was - Arranged Marriage - without the free. Arranged marriage - Because Love..."

yes exactly. arranged is normal, and when one speask of marraige it is automatically understood that they would be speakng about arranged (in india)

i think what is acceptable and in this day an age ur parents might accept is that;;;;

parents can look for grooms, and then after you choose which one. so like you can go on blind dates, hang out with the person for a while, getting to know them.... and then u know if they 'click'.

then u may proceed to the next step.


but personally im not completey against arranged marraige, as long as both the people are happy to be married with each other. Its kinda like a contingency plan, i mean what if you never meet the right person? So you will be alone even when ur 30+ or sumfin. In which case its hard to get married at that age in india....

Carrie wrote: "H99 wrote: "Carrie wrote: "I know my opinion must be completely against the tide but I am pro-arranged marriage. I live in Brazil, where many dates do not even show any interest to know and sociali..."

now trend is changing but before only parents were allowed to choose bride or groom for their son and daughter

In some cultures this is considered ' the best choice' first of all, my child can marry whoever they want. As long a they love each other ( an as long as their intended spouse isn't a damn serial killer or junk. I'd need psych tests.) Arranged are stupid. It's like, if I love this one dude who is sweet and kind and cool, but my parents already arranged for me to marry some freaking old family friend's kid or some bullshit, I'd give 'em the 411. I will marry who I love, not who you want me to love. If I wanna marry a freaking girl, I sure as hell can (( it is legal now!!!!))