Modern Good Reads discussion

Do you write mysteries, suspense, whodunnits? Talk with other authors who do as well. Pour your souls out, get feedback, give and take advice, or just nod as others do so. This is the discussion thread for Mystery, Thriller, and Suspense authors. Aaaaaand, go...

All right! Let's get down to the nitty gritty!

Who here still uses a pencil?

Pencil? I didn't know they still had pencils. It's a mystery to me!

I had a character with a pencil mustache once.

Shifty, he was. Modeled after one of the regular bad guys in the Three Stooges - Ichabod Slip. Anyone know who I'm talking about?

I find it useful to keep some pencils around for the odd cathartic snapping whenever writer's block strikes (which is usually on Fridays, by the way).

Pencils. Cool.

I still use a pencil! In fact, I think that what I write look better that when I use a pen. Friends give me pencils for Holidays. The ones that have pictures on them of christmas trees,easter bunnies, etc. So write on!!!!

Just so you know, the origin of the word "pencil" is the Latin "pencillus" ("little tail"). I figured you all needed to be aware of that. :-)

Anybody else know anything interesting about pencils? If so, I really think we should be told!

I chew on my pencils. My wife hates that.

Anyway, just kidding on the whole pencil thing. But I have been using them lately on students' stories in workshop. Feels better than using ink.

Just a thought: I prefer a mystery series where the protagonist goes through pretty substantial changes over time rather than being in stasis the whole time. Then it is more like a larger character arc than just a "prop" to support the investigation. That usually requires an endpoint, then. Even if there are twenty novels in the series, I kind of hope for an ending at some point.

Do you prefer amateur sleuths or detectives?

Joyce wrote: "Do you prefer amateur sleuths or detectives?"

Joyce, personally I don't care as long as the 'investigator' is interesting and credible and the story-line grips me. I don't like too much detailed 'technical' stuff but neither do I like sloppy mysteries that could be solved over a cup of tea and a packet of Jaffa Cakes ...

Joyce wrote: "Do you prefer amateur sleuths or detectives?"

I can agree that either is fine, as long as they are interesting and credible. I'm not so interested in PI books anymore because they don't work like they did in the past.

John wrote: "Joyce wrote: "Do you prefer amateur sleuths or detectives?"

Joyce, personally I don't care as long as the 'investigator' is interesting and credible and the story-line grips me. I don't like too m..."

John wrote: "Joyce wrote: "Do you prefer amateur sleuths or detectives?"

Joyce, personally I don't care as long as the 'investigator' is interesting and credible and the story-line grips me. I don't like too m..."

I think the term "amateur slueth" is often used for a Cozy, or a more simple mystery rather than suspense. I usually prefer a detective for this reason although I'm sure if I took the time I could think of many exceptions!

I tend to agree that amateur sleuths dominate the cozy category, until I remember the Dick Francis books. His horse-related heroes ran into some really tough situations. Maybe he's the author who breaks the rule?

You know which ones I have a really hard time getting into? Ones where the protag is a journalist. Not sure why, but it just doesn't work so well for me.

I think the police investigators often work best because the character has a legitimate reason for being involved in the case. Lawyers, psychologists, private investigators etc can also work. If the investigator's connection is too tenuous, there's a risk the characters end up behaving implausibly just to make the plot work.

Do you consider P.D. James' books detective novels or cozies or both?

Judith wrote: "Do you consider P.D. James' books detective novels or cozies or both?"

I would consider them literary mystery/suspense.

Anthony wrote: "You know which ones I have a really hard time getting into? Ones where the protag is a journalist. Not sure why, but it just doesn't work so well for me."

Funny, but I kind of agree with this. I think it's a role that's been overdone, but then I suppose it's always possible to give it a new twist.
Too many of the newer ones all have the same sub-theme; a newspaper business fighting to stay alive.

OK, so here's a question for you all. I've seen various category labels on recent threads which begin with the term "literary". What do folks see as the hallmarks of book with this description? What's the difference between a "literary mystery" and a "mystery", for instance?

I think when they market something as "literary mystery", they mean "more serious than regular mystery", which is a bit slimy, but that's marketing for you.

I see "literary" as more attention being paid to line-by-line writing, craft, and character development than a more plot-driven novel would be. But literary technique can be used in every genre. Depends on the audience you want to attract, I suppose.

Anthony wrote: "I think when they market something as "literary mystery", they mean "more serious than regular mystery", which is a bit slimy, but that's marketing for you.

I see "literary" as more attention bein..."

I agree with the 'marketing' comment, Neil. I'd be highly suspicious of anyone describing their own work as 'literary' :-)

But I do think "literary" has become a genre itself, too, as far as helping to label where to put something in the bookstore and helping people find what they like. So in that case, if someone tells me they're writing literary fiction, I have a good idea what they mean.

Asked my friend April to describe a literary mystery, since I found myself unable to!


Well, I guess I'd personally describe literary mystery as a book that really utilizes language in a beautiful way, allows readers to immerse themselves in the wording and lyricism.

I found someone else's response online: "It's not your basic mystery. Where a typical mystery will concentrate mostly on plot, a literary mystery brings in all aspects of a good tale by developing whole, very human characters in well written prose and a setting that is usually an important "character". The main thing is, though, beautiful writing that often seems to put plot in the background when in fact the plot is in the end enhanced and once more the important focal point."

I would agree on Tana French and include Carol Goodman (my absolute favorite literary mystery writer) and Erin Hart. I'm not sure I'd include Brian Freeman, but he does have a fantastic writing style.

Joyce wrote: "Do you prefer amateur sleuths or detectives?"

Really, I like both..but I think the amateur sleuth is a bit more interesting. The writing has to be believable though, with excellent character development and a plot that the readers won't be able to solve halfway through the book.

Interesting question about amateur sleuths or detectives. I write legal fiction and there is always a legal premise at the core of the book, but the lawyer acts as detective. My thinking was that detective doesn't always have to be PI or law enforcement and a legal background precludes the amateur tag.

Rebecca wrote: "Interesting question about amateur sleuths or detectives. I write legal fiction and there is always a legal premise at the core of the book, but the lawyer acts as detective. My thinking was that d..."

Lawyers work. Yep. I like legal thrillers, and I think lawyers make for good detectives most of the time. The shadier, the better!

LOL Anthony, I was thinking the more high-minded the better. You know, always searching for the truth. It's been interesting because the series I'm doing started as courtroom drama. I worried readers would have a problem when I veered toward a more action driven/jeopardy stories. They like it better. They still want the legal reasons why a problem exists but each book is further from heavy courtroom scenes. Looks like the active 'detecting' part works for a broader audience.

Anthony wrote: "You know which ones I have a really hard time getting into? Ones where the protag is a journalist. Not sure why, but it just doesn't work so well for me."

Protag is a journalist ... How about The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo? The Girl That Played with Fire?

I had the strange fortune to read the second book without having read the first, but I really enjoyed The Girl That Played with Fire. Phenomenal book. Which is why its going to film.

Too bad the author died before the series published. I'd much rather become a legend in my own lifetime.

Anthony - a legend in your lifetime.

I totally agree on that one but the aftermath of his death is the stuff of which great thrillers are made. I always use real life for inspiration. Nothing I could think up would ever be more exciting or stranger than reality.

Travis wrote:

Protag is a journalist ....."

Sorry, but that series just didn't get to me. I was bored, so I gave up. I also had a hard time with David Peace's first Red Riding book because of that. And a couple of Denise Mina's. Just...a sticking point. Something about motivation.

Marla wrote: "Judith wrote: "Do you consider P.D. James' books detective novels or cozies or both?"

I would consider them literary mystery/suspense."

Marla wrote: "Judith wrote: "Do you consider P.D. James' books detective novels or cozies or both?"

I would consider them literary mystery/suspense."

I understand what you are saying, but where does that leave the detective in the stories?

The detective would still be the main character. The term "literary" can actually describe any genre book depending on the writing style of the author.

I write legal/crime fic too - my first hero is an honest lawyer who gets indicted for playing golf. My second is a disgraced homicide detective-turned PI.

The trick with the legal premise (often) is articulating the legalities in a way that ordinary readers can understand.

The trick with police procedurals is, well, getting the procedurals right (or deliberately wrong, as the case may be).

Though I write paranormal, with a heavy splash of erotica, I have crime fiction plot elements sewn into the mix.

My view of the world comes down to believability. The characters banter and worry about laws, criminality, getting caught. They create the world of legality.

Same with procedure. The police procedure from one state to another is different, city by city its different.

Make it believable, because your characters believe it, and it will be real and credible for the reader.

Within reason.

:)

Pete wrote: "I write legal/crime fic too - my first hero is an honest lawyer who gets indicted for playing golf. My second is a disgraced homicide detective-turned PI.

The trick with the legal premise (often) ..."

Deliberately wrong? I've had a hard time researching any police information for my suspense novels. Hard to find a good source to back things up with. It's interesting though, because what I have learned, is very few things are cast in stone. Seems like you can get away with just about anything as long as you explain it correctly.

Marla wrote: "Pete wrote: "I write legal/crime fic too - my first hero is an honest lawyer who gets indicted for playing golf. My second is a disgraced homicide detective-turned PI.

The trick with the legal pre..."

Marla, I have a list of resources for those who want to write procedurals and need information. Under the tab 'for writers' I'm lucky to have resources at hand with friends and families but I also use these. see www.rebeccaforster.com

Rebecca wrote: "Marla wrote: "Pete wrote: "I write legal/crime fic too - my first hero is an honest lawyer who gets indicted for playing golf. My second is a disgraced homicide detective-turned PI.

The trick with..."

Writers would be well advised to take a look at Rebecca's site www.rebeccaforster.com

Reading through the comments makes me feel my last book fits more into this Genre than Adventure thriller.

John wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "Marla wrote: "Pete wrote: "I write legal/crime fic too - my first hero is an honest lawyer who gets indicted for playing golf. My second is a disgraced homicide detective-turned PI...."

Thank you John. I try to keep some up-to-date info there. Many times the general public isn't aware of access to law enforcement. I love this genre and I especially love when I learn something new. Good luck James.

Rebecca wrote: "see www.rebeccaforster.com"

Rebecca, I love your site design! Just wanted to throw that out there...

Also, when I was in high school, I stumbled upon the Writer's Digest "Howdunit" series. I'm sure some of the info is probably outdated by now, but it's still worth checking out.

Travis wrote: "Anthony wrote: "You know which ones I have a really hard time getting into? Ones where the protag is a journalist. Not sure why, but it just doesn't work so well for me."

Protag is a journalist ....."

Loved The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Reading ..."Kicked the Hornet's Nest" now.

Anthony wrote: "All right! Let's get down to the nitty gritty!

Who here still uses a pencil?"

Just for Crosswords and editing.

Judith wrote: "Anthony wrote: "All right! Let's get down to the nitty gritty!

Who here still uses a pencil?"

Just for Crosswords and editing."

I use pen and notebook for jotting down notes. I have never liked a pencil. I even do my crosswords in pen. :)

Red pen for editing. Never use a pencil.

What I meant about "deliberately wrong" is that police/detectives make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes can be the twist. The cops rarely get everything right.

But you have to know what's right first, so you know how to be wrong right. Right?

Rebecca's list is awesome. You can also get great information from the Sisters In Crime Yahoo loop, but you have to join first. There are retires homicide detectives and cops and PIs and all sort of shady characters hanging around there (and a lot of very experienced crime and mystery writers).

Pete, your'e so right. I have yet to meet a law enforcement anyone who doesn't love to share stories and procedural did bits.

If you want a really extravagant expert at your beck and call, here's what I did:

I took on a libel case, defending a retired homicide detective who was sued by some neighbors for writing a blog about their NIMBY lawsuit against a dredging project.

Then, when the publisher reneged on his promise to pay their writer's legal fees, I continued to represent him for free throughout the entire case. When I won the case, he owed me a lot of money that I was quite sure he could never pay.

So I just said, "that's okay, feed me story ideas and review my procedural stuff."

I cannot divulge what he's given me, but it's been a decent barter so far.

Pete wrote: "If you want a really extravagant expert at your beck and call, here's what I did:

I took on a libel case, defending a retired homicide detective who was sued by some neighbors for writing a blog a..."

I suppose you could always learn about crime and police procedure from the other side of the fence. Do something foolish and spend some time in jail, interview some inmates.

Reality is far stranger than fiction in those settings.

Now that's what I call research.

:)