True Love 101 discussion

Wendy we have to finish this series... add it to the list :)

HAHAHA!! On it!!!

Oh YEAH! You have to finish it!!! Tell me when you do, because you *know* that I'll have to read it for a THIRD time.

Yes, it's that good and that aggravating! ;-)

HAHA! Yeah, we gotta fit the next one in our queue.

Deb, I deleted the comment because it wasn't related to this series.

If it's not a promotion, feel free to re-post it in the currently reading topic.

Ok so I am reading the third and final book. Was it Lori who made the comment about Jean in the other thread?

I don't know exactly how she feels about Jean but he is one of my favorites. I know people have an issue with his interference in Vadim and Dan's relationship but he doesn't push himself on Dan. Dan has a mind of his own and has no boundaries when it comes to fidelity.

Well, we haven't read past the second book, so I'm not sure what happens. I don't actually dislike Jean, I actually find myself more bothered with Dan. (view spoiler)[Vadim does. At least where we are. So it's our worry that Dan's openness will cause more pain, and unfortunately whether or not Jean pushes it he's the catalyst (hide spoiler)].

But like I said, we've only read through Soldiers 1 so I have no idea what's coming.

They are an emotional couple, no doubt about that. As I said before they have gotten under my skin since book 1. I am invested in Vadim and Dan.

I am anxious to see what happens in this final book. It is bitter sweet.

Wendy, are you reading Special Forces - Mercenaries Part II then?

Marcella, I am *not* a Jean fan. Never have been. Never will be. I understand what you're saying about him, and Dan making his own decisions. You're right. And that makes me dislike Dan a bit more. Jean commentary - not sure if this is a spoiler for Wendy & Leea or not:(view spoiler)[To me, Jean isn't even honest with himself. He won't admit to being anything but "straight"; what's wrong with admitting that he's bi-sexual? He fell for Solange when she was still a he, for heavens' sakes! Plus, not telling Solange about his "special" relationship with Dan. And Jean *did* begin that relationship just to piss off Vadim, which is why I think it still bothers Vadim so much. If Jean could be more honest about his feelings and himself, I might be able to like him. But I don't, because IMO, he never does change enough to be honest with himself. MAYBE at the very end, but even then, I don't think so. (hide spoiler)]

As for Dan...(probably not for Wendy & Leea until they finish reading Part II)(view spoiler)[I also *get* that he feels as if he's finally exploring his sexuality for the first time. And he doesn't want to be tied down. Dan thinks and feels the way I imagine many guys think: sex is sex. It's not love. It's not commitment. So Dan isn't bothered by his sexual encounters with others and feels as if he's ahead if he makes friends with the guys, too. How & why he can't see that Vadim is bothered is beyond me. How can you love someone and know them that well and not see it? It just feels like Dan changes too much... he's not cool with Vadim's relationship with Hooch, but he wants Vadim to be cool about his (Dan's) relationships with others, especially Jean? That's the key to me: that Dan is jealous of Hooch. That says that Dan knows better and doesn't just believe that sex is sex, but that feelings can and do get involved when you continue to do those things with the same people to the exclusion of others. (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, that's my opinion... and I realize not everyone shares it. Just speaking my mind! I overly invested in Dan & Vadim, because they were my "first" - my first M/M couple. This was a whole new experience for me, reading these stories. I might have to re-read them again soon. Just don't know if I can take it all again!

We're planning on it. I think we're shooting for starting book 3 on Sunday.

Ha ha! You crack me up Lori. I completely understand what you are saying about Jean. I was not a Jean fan in the beginning but he grew on me. (view spoiler)[He did get involved with Dan in the beginning because of what Vadim did to him. It is not an excuse, but an explanation. I think Jean developed feelings for Dan. With regards to Dan being jealous of Hooch, I think he had reason to. Vadim told him that he loved Hooch but not the same way he loves Dan. I think in Dan's mind what he is doing with Jean and the others were not love, just sex. There was no emotional attachment for him. Vadim had an emotional attachment to Hooch. Dan has always had a casual look out on sex, even when he was with women. Now that he is with Vadim I am not sure he knows what fidelity is.(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

That's a good point about Dan, Marcella. It's such a JOURNEY to get through these books, that by the time you do, you really feel as if you've lived it with them, ya know?

Lori McD wrote: "That's a good point about Dan, Marcella. It's such a JOURNEY to get through these books, that by the time you do, you really feel as if you've lived it with them, ya know?"

I totally know what you mean Lori. These guys have a piece of my heart. I am so attached to them. Just like the BDB brothers.

Aleksandr Voinov started following my reviews here... he really liked my review of Special Forces - he's one of the authors. I suspect he's the voice of Vadim.

He's got a few other books out, as well, so I'm looking at them to see what I might pick up soon. He sort of got me hooked on the M/M thing, and I love Vadim and Dan so much, why not give some of his other works a try?

I've had Dark Soul for a while but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

Yah, he's Vadim and Marquesate is Dan, lol.

That's exciting.

Lori have you read Nikolai's book?

No. Is that the book's title?

I got Dark Soul Part. Worried that I won't like it.

This is the book.

Thanks, Marcella - that looks like an interesting book. I liked Nikolai in Special Forces. I'll give it a try.

Lori McD wrote: "Thanks, Marcella - that looks like an interesting book. I liked Nikolai in Special Forces. I'll give it a try."

I really enjoyed his character. I didn't read the synopsis so I am not sure if his book is m/m. I got the impression he liked women so maybe he has an epiphany.

The description mentions that he's bisexual, but it looks like he has a m/m hook-up in this book.

Sounds good to me. I look forward to it. I am still trying to make my way through Hooch and Matt's book.

I know what my problem is. I don't hate Jean, (taking the convo back, lol). I actually think Jean is a really interesting character.

Still, I have a major problem with (view spoiler)[this connection between Jean and Dan. It's almost like Dan and Jean crave each other, and THAT pisses me off.

What made me fall in love with Soldiers, the reason that it is a book that left an imprint on my soul (which is exactly a list of only 8 books, so it's selective) is because there was an intensity, a DEEP connection that was forged between Dan and Vadim. It was so strong I could reach out and feel it. I've only read a connection like that in one other book, Outlander, and it affected me.

I mean, “You conquered me, got to this Special Forces bloke well and truly." His voice husky and low. "You could betray and kill me now and I wouldn't give a shit as long as you'd stay close until I died.” What happened to that? I'm 20% in and the only thing that's been going on is them sleepign with other people.

That connection that I love feels like it's steadily disappearing. I felt it's loss in the last book, and I feel it more in this one and it's totally upsetting me, lmao (hide spoiler)].

I'm thisclose to quitting because I feel like it's giving me negative feelings about something that I absolute LOVED.

Don't give up Wendy! It will all become clear by the end. If you give up now you will be really missing out.

I'm trying so hard, lmao! I just miss how it was...

Just hang in there Wendy. Know that I felt the same way you did about Dan and Vadim. They meant a lot to me and this series really changed my life. I wasn't liking the path it was taking exactly where you are now. I'm so glad I decided to power through and am so glad I did. Whenever you feel like giving up just keep in mind it will be worth it. I promise!

I'm feeling the same way as Wendy... I'm to 20% (view spoiler)[ and it's one scene after another of Dan and V doing it with other people and i'm missing the connection they had in the past books. (hide spoiler)] I'll give it till tomorrow I guess... At what part does it pick up or we get more V & Dan time?

Sorry to say this but not until the next book. They get back on track a little in part 2 but not much. Please hang in there ladies. You won't regret it. It's so powerful you won't regret it.

It's such a long book... I don't know what i'm going to do?

I know it is just hang in there. DON'T GIVE UP!!!!

LOL, Well I'm gonna keep going. I heard it picks up when they get back on assignment.

Leea, I think I'm just gonna do a lot of skimming.

You ladies need to continue with the series. That is all there is to it. Ha ha!

We are so close to the end now. You and Lori can just be our cheerleaders.

I'm just worried because I adored the first one so much.

Do not worry Wendy!

YOU CAN DO IT...YOU CAN DO IT...YOU CAN DO IT...YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

But, actually, you two are validating my take on the whole Jean thing... (view spoiler)[After my last read, and yes, I did read it AGAIN, I decided I didn't hate Jean, either. But I don't like him. He's a FAKE. He's a LIAR. (IMO) Anyone who can't or won't own up to what he is, especially to himself... that's what bugs me the most about him.

But yeah - that connection between Jean and Dan... and, well, let's just say that you're going to have to either live with it or give it up, 'cuz it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Just keep hanging on to what Dan tells and shows to Vadim in the better moments. (hide spoiler)]

But PLEASE do keep reading.... remember that in 3 Acts, the 2nd Act is usually the toughest. And that's what Mercenaries is for me - the roughest, toughest, most difficult part of Dan's and Vadim's relationship. Just remember that there's an Act 3 and you know they're both still in it.

This one and even Veterans has a slightly different feel than Soldiers. And it's probably because of the dual authors; sometimes they seem to be competing with one another for a voice and how the other character reacts.

I don't like how Dan becomes such a "slut"... and I wonder how much the "new author" has to do with that - if she decided that's the way it would be or if that was a mutual decision between the authors for the story.

JUST KEEP READING!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Well, (view spoiler)[I have to say that I don't have a problem with Jean's sexuality. Whatever. Sexuality is personal. He can like whoever the hell he likes and own up to whatever he wants.

I actually don't dislike him at all. I dislike that I feel like Dan's relationship with Jean makes light of his feelings for Vadim. Period. That's it. Excuse me while I compare, it doesn't matter how close Jamie was with someone (even his own sister) nobody compared to Claire and vice versa. And I just don't feel that between D&V the way I did in the first book, and part o fthe second though it was fading there. It feels emotionless where there was once a story that was ALL emotion, and untimately that's what's upsetting me. What happened to my boys that that found such a deep love between all the misery?! (hide spoiler)]

It's also funny because I'm wondering what versions we all read. There are so many differnet ones with the differnt authors. At first Leea and I had two different versions of the book and we had to work to get one that was the same so we could read together!

I felt the same way but after reading the series I have a better understanding of Dan. (view spoiler)[I do not think Dan having sex with Jean minimizes his feelings for Vadim. To Dan it is just sex and he makes that very clear. He is a slut, but an honest slut.(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

He says that but there are (view spoiler)[scenes and moments between them that speak of more than just 'sex'. Men who are just 'having sex' don't share tender loving kisses and talk about how they'll always have each other. I guess I just see it as action speaking louder than words (hide spoiler)].

I think Dan considers them really close friends. Trust me all will be revealed. I do not want to give too much away.

Okay, well you're the one whose keeping me motivated, lol. If not for you saying all will worth it I'd have put this down, lol

I just feel like (and Wendy and I have been texting about his too so) there is no (view spoiler)[emotions involved. Like they're just messing around with other people without rules or boundaries it just doesn't feel "real." I'm worried for whats to come with Dan & Vadim, they're getting more into S & M so I know Vadim want's more. I have nothing against them being gay, I just mean that it all relationships people get jealous and they seem to be totally lacking it. (hide spoiler)]

Wendy F wrote: "Okay, well you're the one whose keeping me motivated, lol. If not for you saying all will worth it I'd have put this down, lol"

Great no pressure there. LMAO!

Just keep in mind there are still a lot of unresolved issues, especially with Vadim. I felt in Part II even though I know they are in love, they are still feeling each other out and getting to know another again. Don't be so hard on Dan.

LMAO! Don't worry, if Im unhappy in the end I won't hold it against you!

I suppose maybe I still have issues with (view spoiler)[Dan because I never understood why he was so angry at Vadim after he was released. I know that Dan was scared and he went through a lot, worrying that Vadim would die, or had died. But honestly, it's NOTHING compared to what Vadim was going through. Two looooooong years of extreme torture! I mean, it is ABSOLUTELY realistic that Vadim would be majorly scarred and damaged upon release. For Dan to have assumed he should act a certain way, and to be angry at him for running away... it was just so unbelievably selfish. I can understand being hurt. But be hurt, but be patient. Not that it's Dan's forte, lol. It just seemed so extreme, all that violent anger.

And I guess I just feel like all this distance between them (and I agree Marcella, it's alllll that hurt from meeting and then the kidnapping and torture and everything that happened when they came back together) could have been averted if Dan had just chilled the fuck out and given Vadim time to work out all his issues, whatever he needed to do, after two YEARS of extreme TORTURE, lmfao. He gave up on him without even thinking that maybe V was just screwed up.

I mean, Vadim raped Dan and it took them about 10 years for Dan to mostly overcome the emotional and psychological effects of that. Vadim was mind raped for 2 years and Dan expected him to come home and rush right back into his arms?! Bulldookie, lmao (hide spoiler)].

So, my frustration with Dan started a long time ago. I will say that I'm at the point in the book where Dan has realized that he IS jealous, and (Leea don't read) (view spoiler)[They just recreated the Afghanistan scene with the knife after Vadim was tortured by Dan. And while the violence is so hard for me, it's the first time that I'm starting to feel them again (hide spoiler)]. It's made me feel much more hopeful and I'm having a harder time putting the book down.

Sooooorrry for the long posts, but I have so much to say and my mind is going a mile a minute and I've texted poor Leea's ear off about it and I'm farther than she is, lmao. Hope you ladies don't mind that I"m bouncing my ventings off on you guys.

I have realized that I fricking love these boys. I just want them to love each other and get over this other dude crap.

I don't have an issue with Jean's sexuality. He can be whatever he wants to be. I just don't like how he hides, deflects, or covers up - everything. (view spoiler)[ He's a deserter from the Russian army, but he took on a new identity in the Foreign Legion. OK, I understand that. Vadim has issues with it, but he's Russian.

To me, Jean seems to be the kind of guy who's always hiding something; he doesn't even want to acknowledge the truth to himself: 1) Jean doesn't want to admit that Solange was ever a man - only to Dan. 2)He can't acknowledge that he's bisexual; he's constantly hiding behind his jokes and teasing. Again, being a Merc, I can see why. But Jean seems to only be real with Dan. And yeah, that bothers me. Why can't Jean be real with Solange, too? It takes him forever with Dan to recognize that this is more than just "helping a buddy out" kinda sex. Why? Because Jean doesn't want to admit even to himself that it's more - even when he's watching Dan & Vadim. 3) Most of all, Jean hides his real relationship with Dan from Solange. And that just feels like cheating to me, especially after Dan's and Vadim's trip to France. Then again, Dan seemed to get over those thoughts pretty quickly. (hide spoiler)]

I'd never have made it through this series if I had a problem with m/m. I sure wouldn't have read it 3 full times if I did. So it's not that. I just don't trust Jean. He always seems to have a hidden motive or agenda - sometimes, even hidden from himself.

The tenderness between Jean and Dan... (view spoiler)[that bothers me, too. Dan talks about getting his "fun" from the guys other than Vadim; how sex can just be fun. I know in the 1st part, their relationship was intense, but when they were in Kabul, I thought they had fun. Maybe just being able to be more open and free for Dan? (hide spoiler)]

Dan always seems to acknowledge - even if it's to himself - that Vadim is more... deeper... his heart. (view spoiler)[In Thailand, in Scotland, and everywhere. I'm not built to accept the way he approaches love and sex; but what bothered me isn't that he doesn't do what *I* think, but more that it bothered Vadim. All the extracurricular sex seemed to take away from what he has with Vadim. But I think that's me coloring it, too. (hide spoiler)]

Wonder if there are multiple versions? I read the one straight off the web site - and it's Marquesate's web site.

In a way, I felt like Vadim (not for Leea yet?)(view spoiler)[evened the score with Hooch. It was like Vadim had someone who depended on *him* - who needed him. AND the comparison between Jean looking a lot like Vadim and Hooch looking a lot like Dan occurred to often, that the authors seemed to be making a point about these guys falling for/being involved with guys who were younger, less damaged versions of the one they loved. That made me very nervous throughout. (hide spoiler)]

But... we'll have to discuss more when you've finished Part II. And honestly, there's a lot of resolution in Veterans with Dan & Vadim - understanding and healing.

If you can stick with it through Part II, it won't always be easy or the same as Soldiers, but I *do* agree with Marcella that it's worth it in the end.

Venting is TOTALLY what this thread is about, right? Discussing and working your way through the books and your feelings, issues, questions, and even frustrations.

Just to clarify, lol, because I don't want you to think this is what I meant. I never ever thought you had a problem with m/m. I thought you meant that (view spoiler)[you were bothered by the fact that Jean wouldn't admit to himself that he's obviously bisexual, lol. I think you said in your second post that it does bother you that he won't admit it to himself. That is what I meant by I don't care what he can't admit to himself. That's between him and himself, lol. Sad for him, but obviously his issue. It doesn't make me dislike him.

I definitely agree with you about Solange though. He's is 100% cheating on her and Dan is okay with that. It's not the same as what him and Vadim are doing because they are open verbally with each other. Jean is going behind Solange's back and that's terrible. I had a hard time with that when they were in France too. It didn't seem to bother me as much when they were on assignment but to go out for the wedding and be screwing around is really jacked up (hide spoiler)]. So anyway, yeah, I never thought you're issue was with the M/M. I know you don't have a problem with that. :)

See, I think that's the part that bothered me too, that (view spoiler)[Vadim was bothered by it. That Vadim didn't understand how he could say he loved him but want to be with all these other guys. And that Dan doesn't seem to care. Like when Vadim makes the comment about wanting them to wear rings and Dan was so flippant about it. It just doesn't feel as special and intense as it did in the beginning (hide spoiler)].

Though, like I said in my last post, so far the second half is better. They just got back on assignment so we'll see what happens.

There are definitely multiple versions. The way I heard it is the authors had a falling out. Which could be rumor. But it looks like there's Marquesate's 'original' version which is different from Aleksandr's 'original' version. (And I know they're different because I downloaded the original version from Aleksandr's site and it starts completely different from the original version that Leea downloaded from Marquesate's site. So if you read the Marquesate version than yours is slightly different from ours.) Then, both authors are rereleasing 'Directors cuts' of the books. So, it looks like there are going to eventually be 4 versions, lol. And I have NO idea which one is the original original version.

Hooch and Vadim (view spoiler)[bother me waaaaaaaaay less than Jean and Dan. I think it's only because I like Hooch more than Jean. (I have a crush on Hooch... he's a sexy babe!) And also because I agree, it's almost like Vadim isn't just being the doormat. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. AND it leads to Dan's jealousy, which I LOVED and had been waiting for! (hide spoiler)]