The Backlot Gay Book Forum discussion

There are some couplings in fiction that seem to capture everyone's fancy: Scarlett and Rhett; Romeo & Juliet; Samson and Delilah; Carmen and Don José; Anastasia Steele and Christian Grey (now we're getting hot!); Jack and Ennis (So sad!); Adrien and Jake (Who?); Val and Keir (What? What?! What!! Who??).

Yes, the gay characters in m/m romance fiction are getting so well-known they've got their own Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_... and Goodreads has an entire folder devoted to voting for faves (You might be surprised who actually won....congrats Ty and Zane!) http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/55...

So who, exactly, is/are our favorite boy/boy (or, if you insist, girl/girl) pairings.......and WHY ?

I'll go first.

I don't really have an absolute favorite from all my reading, yet. I would have to split them into a few categories among which are: BDSM, long-term relationships, classic gay fiction, and "perfect couples."

BDSM :

Believe it or not, the characters Val Toreth and Keir Warrick, found in Manna Francis' Administration series, actually have a few lads who have wedged themselves even closer to my heart (by being there first.)

First off, there are Dan and Vadim, the Scottish SAS soldier and the Soviet Spetsnaz officer, who are the long-term couple found in the Marquesate/Aleksandr Voinov novels Special Forces. Special Forces - Soldiers is the first cycle of the Special Forces epic (this word is not used loosely), which consists of three cycles and is about a million words in total length. The second cycle is Special Forces - Mercenaries, divided into two parts, and the third one is Special Forces - Veterans. Anyone thinking they might want to read these stories would be well-advised to read (closely) the reviews on goodreads for the various cycles http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78... http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/79... http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/79... http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/79...

This is not the typical m/m "soldier novel." This is the Gone With The Wind of BDSM man-on-man rough-sex novels. And it's absolutely wonderful; riveting and touching in equal measure. And these guys actually make it through their impossible world to survive and prosper as a unique couple! This means there's a HEA out there for absolutely anyone.

If you can make it through these novels (and I still haven't read the first cycle, Soldiers yet, but I'll get there eventually,) you will be rewarded by a sweeping story involving these trained soldiers' mercenary world beginning with the Soviet Union's fiasco in Afghanistan and moving on to our own fiasco(es) in the Middle East. (These books can all be downloaded from Marquesate's site http://www.marquesate.org/ in pdf form for free - or for a donation to be used to help veterans, which is absolutely cool; or purchased (not Special Forces - Soldiers for some reason) at the Barnes & Noble site or on Amazon's "Books" site - no Kindle versions yet.)

There is a sort of Dan and Vadim-lite that can be found in the single novel Deliverance - Hooch and Matt's Story which is a branched continuation of a story that begins in the Special Forces - Mercenaries novels wherein Hooch and Dan have an affair, which leads to Hooch and Matt being fixed-up by Dan. (There's a LOT of partner-trading in these books.) Outside of the rather rough BDSM scenes in a private sex club, Deliverance - Hooch and Matt's Story is the softest and sweetest of the three stories. And my least favorite.

I have to admit that Dan and Vadim make Val and Keir, with their far more sanitized BDSM, look like pussies. However, for those readers who just can't handle the blood-and-guts of Marquesate's men, Francis' seven-novel Administration series is the sine que non of BDSM characters. These are Conflicted Men who are at the penultimate levels of their respective careers: Val Toreth is an para-Investigator (torturer) for the European Administration's Investigation & Interrogation division; while Keir Warrick is a brilliant virtual reality entrepreneur. The interplay between these two characters can only be read about. There is no way to present how fascinating these two men, and their extraordinary interactions, are to the reader. I have tried to get the intense interplay between these lovers across in my reviews of the seven novels. It's the readers' loss if they don't follow through by reading this singularly brilliant series.

Long-term Relationships:

This is going to be much smaller group of people.

In fact, I can only think of one pair who have made it for the long haul, and whom I can heartily recommend. That would be:

Donald Strachey and Timothy Callahan from Richard Stevenson's wonderful written-over-a-long-period-of-time Donald Strachey mysteries series. http://www.goodreads.com/search?utf8=...

I have read the first five novels in the series and thought I was within a few of the last ones published. NOT! There are, currently, thirteen novels - and counting - in this wonderful series. The first novel, published in 1981, was Death Trick, published right after I had spent six months in Albany, NY (the setting for the novels,) and was a wonderful reminder of why I loved the city that is capitol to the great state of New York.

Don and Timmy have, simply, a wonderful relationship. They fight, they make up, they adjust. There's no tsuris in their lives that isn't brought about by Don's being a p.i. or from Timmy's staff position in the NY State legislature.

The series, as it should be, is really centered around Don's detecting, and the mysteries (at least as I remember them) are wonderful. Many concern gay-related themes and, at the time, were not only unique for that reason, but also for the ongoing partnership of Don and Tim. Something this series has in common with the Special Forces series is that, at this 2013 point in time, the men are in their sixties, still together and, apparently, going strong.

There are considerable complaints at both ends of the series: the first involving the fact that the initial novels are set WAY back in the 1980s, and actually base how everyone acts around that fact; and the second, that the more current novels are too much roman à clef and heavily involve American politics. Hey! What are these people complaining about? This is the reason I read these books. I love an author who has grown with his characters, and is politically engaged throughout.

Based on the first five novels in the series, I would heartily recommend these stories to anyone who likes mysteries and enjoys time-stamped books about a specific time and place.

I know I have to have forgotten some really great - and long-lived - m/m relationships, but these men (and Vadim and Dan as well as Louis and Lestat) are the only ones who really come to mind right away. Let me know who I'm forgetting.

P.S. I suddenly recalled Tales of the City's Michael "Mouse" Tolliver, but I stopped reading the serial fairly early in its incarnations, so I only remember (the late and VERY much lamented) Dr. Jon Fielding. I was reading these really early in their life. I mean I read the first "book" as clippings from the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper as sent to me weekly by a friend whose family lived in San Francisco. Talk about an "early adapter."

P.P.S. The insanely written (and insanely popular) Gaywyck also gave us a very long-term relationship with its MCs, Robert (Robby) Whyte and Donough Gaylord. As crazy as the story was, the love affair stretched from the turn-of-the-twentieth-century to (presumbaly) a decade or two before the publication of the "memoirs" in 1980. That's really sweet, and certainly constitutes being listed as a gay relationship that lasted.

Classic Gay Fiction:

Here is my catch-all category. This is the section where I can list all those people who are MFEO, but either through bad timing, death, or some other divinely (or author)-wrought device doesn't make it for the long haul.

Since there will be a fairly large number, I won't try your patience by doing the whole review idea. I will simply list the MCs and the novel. I'm going to presume that such fine readers as we have on this site will have simply have read the novels listed, or certainly intend to when the time is right.

Oh, God! There really are so many that this little subsection is going to be a continual work-in-progress itself. But, on to it:

(Coach)Harlan Brown and (Runner) Billy Sive. The Front Runner. By Patricia Nell Warren. Pub. 1974. Oh, hell, I'm going to break my own commandment, and comment on this novel and its protagonists. I was very young when Front Runner was first published, but knew I was gay. This book had incredible significance for me not only because I was still closeted at the time, but because, even at the time of publication, a lot of it was behind the times as far as gay lib. was concerned. Harlan was so intensely closeted that I was, even then, amazed that he didn't just explode from all his repressed sexual tension. The fact that, apparently, half of the men running long-distance races races were gay (and hot) also made this a bit unbelievable also. Nevertheless, you ended up rooting for the doomed romance. Its inevitable end (at the hands of a mad shooter) seems more than a bit timely - or any time - in the US with our insane gun laws.

With Anthony Malone (known throughout the novel simply as "Malone") and Andrew Sutherland ("Sutherland") we enter that misty area of gay friends who aren't quite lovers, but are the most significant character in the other's life, romantic or otherwise. Dancer From the Dance. By Andrew Holleran. Pub. 1978. Hands-down, this is my favorite novel with a gay theme. There is, and never will be, a contest. The "preternaturally beautiful" Malone is so absolutely tragic in his inability to ever connect with anyone who can truly return his love when coupled with his seen-it-all attitude toward anyone who might care for him is tragic hero writ large. Sutherland, on the other hand, is the only person who can actually handle love and friendship with the doomed(?) Malone. Their "partnership" in selling Malone to the highest bidder (at the most frenzied time of the 1970's post-Stonewall/pre-HIV gay life in NYC) marks these two as a love-of-a-sort that will last (if Malone actually survives at the end of the novel.) This novel cannot be recommended too highly. It's fairly short, staggeringly beautifully written, and freezes a time of gay life that, likely, will never occur again. Your assignment is to read this novel and report on it.

Then there are the couples whom we all like, and are (or have been) cranked-out by the basket-full (npi) by our favorite m/m authors:

Adrien English and Jake Riordan. (The Adrien English mystery series.) By Josh Lanyon. Pub.2000. I must admit to loving this couple, if only because they were the first men I read about in an ongoing m/m romantic series. I was amazed and enchanted. Far from perfect (I like lots of guys better than either Adrien or Jake), these guys won my heart simply by pride of place. The fact that I consider A Dangerous Thing, the second of the five novels, to be beautifully written (this was the place where I stopped considering Jake to be a jerk, and got my own crush on him,) means I still sigh on rereading this story. /cont.

Oh Chuck - what a fun thread! I burst out laughing with your description of Matt and Hooch as Dan and Vadim-lite ... that is such an apt description LOL.

I've read all three cycles of Marquesate and Voinov's Special Forces (twice through) over the past few years and I think I have to agree that Dan and Vadim is the most memorable pairing; even in comparison to Val and Keir (Administration series) and the Cut and Run boys.

I gain new appreciation and insights into Dan and Vadim's complex relationship each time I read through. I remember my first reading though ... I stopped reading because of the strong BDSM elements, and then went back for a second time a month or so later to continue on. I still struggle a little bit with the polyamorous aspects of their primary relationship. However ... the finale of the last cycle was very satisfying resolution to all that these two had gone through over thirty? years.

The fact that their story-line arc over the series of books ages them from late thirties into their late fifties is singularly distinct. Most gay characters never seem to be above their mid-forties.

Thanks for the GoodReads link on pairings - how interesting. I can understand why others might prefer Zane and Ty to the "harder BDSM" pairings by Marquesate, Voinov and Francis. However, seriously - Mind Fuck comes in at number #44?? I protest. The complexity of the relationship between Val and Keir far surpasses Zane/Ty, Adrien/Jake or even Jack/D (Seville).

Interesting to see Damon Suede's Hot Head pair up there at #6! I recall there was a lively discussion on AE last year regarding this book. Wasn't it to do with the realities (or not) of gay-for-pay characters?

Marie Sexton's pairings appear in the top twenty ... I have to agree that the Promises boys are the best of her Coda series with the Strawberries for Dessert guys a worthy runner-up.

My only quibble about this GoodReads list is the lack of characters from books written a while ago. Why the hell is Comfort and Joy's (Grimsley) Dan Krell and Ford McKinley not ranked high on this list? Or significantly memorable MC pairs from The Front Runner, At Swim Two Boys, Map Of The Harbor Islands, , The Catchtrap. Or Jeff and Lloyd from William Mann's trilogy. I wonder if the list is restricted to e-reader titles? Hmmm.

BTW - for those who really appreciate Zero at the Bone, I think you will find much to like with Brooke McKinley's Shades of Gray. I read both around the same time and have to admit I had the storylines mixed up in my mind at times.

I'll start off with a pairing that I don't remember seeing on the Gay Books forums before, but is popular: James and Bram of A Bit of Rough and Roughhousing by Laura Baumbach. Their story is just this wild ride. Bram is larger than life, James is neurotic, and they're tons of fun. If you don't like sex scenes, stay far, far away from these books.

A Bit of Rough

Roughhousing

Rough Ride

A couple I like is Jonty Stewart and Orlando Coppersmith of the Cambridge Fellows Mysteries/"Lessons in..." books. They're lovely Edwardian gentlemen as the series begins in Lessons in Love. By the time of All Lessons Learned, they've reached World War I. Orlando starts out extremely repressed, but eventually unthaws. Jonty is generally fairly cheerful, though he's had some trauma in his life.

Lessons in Love

Charlie Cochrane

And I go totally lightweight with Brent and Hell of Hell, in the Heaven Sent series. It makes more sense if you've read Heaven and Purgatory first, but one of the things I liked about Hell is that Brent and Hell are both gay or at least bisexual to start with, unlike some of the characters in other books of the series.

Jet Mykles

A more serious story already mentioned in this forum is "Snowball in Hell." The pairing is Matthew Spain, a police detective, and Nathan Doyle, a reporter. I mention this pairing because Nathan is perhaps one of my favorite fictional characters ever. The novella is set in 1943, and things are dangerous in several ways for the protagonists as they try to solve a murder mystery.

Snowball in Hell

It's hard to pick just one couple out of J.L. Langley's characters, because I like a lot, but Laine and Devlin of "With Love" are a cute couple. The story is said to be yaoi-inspired. I didn't know anything about yaoi when I read it, but after I learned, I could see Laine as an uke.

J.L. Langley

Emilie wrote: "A couple I like is Jonty Stewart and Orlando Coppersmith of the Cambridge Fellows Mysteries/"Lessons in..." books. They're lovely Edwardian gentlemen as the series begins in Lessons in Love. By t..."

I started reading Lessons in Love two years ago and just couldn't get into the writing style - and Orlando as a character annoyed me. Maybe I wasn't in the right frame of mind at that time so I should give the series another try. Especially since my successful re-start experience of Ginn Hale's Rifter series earlier on this year.

But I know I'm not a Baumbach fan - for the very reason you mentioned - a definite overkill on the sex!

Again I go rather lightweight with Vic and Matt of The Powers of Love and Positions of Love series. Vic gets superpowers from Matt. I'm not even going to explain how.

J.M. Snyder

More seriously, there's David Archer and William Marshall of the Royal Navy series. The series starts with Ransom. These are historicals, from the Age of Sail.

Lee Rowan

I also liked Edward and Jack of Edward Unconditionally. Edward is quite the memorable character, and Jack is much put-upon. This is book three of the Common Powers series. I did not read them in order, but read Edward Unconditionally first. The book still made sense without having read the first two, but you do get a bit more out of knowing the background of other characters who appear in the book.

Edward Unconditionally

Lynn Lorenz

Classic Gay Fiction:
/cont. from impossibly long posting above.


Perfect Couples:

I figure that I should limit myself to either three or five couples that I consider for the "Perfect Couple Hall of Fame." I haven't decided yet whether I'll go for brevity or inclusiveness (especially since I keep meeting couples I adore....hello, Ty and Zane.)


Val Toreth and Keir Warrick (the Administration series by Manna Francis)

This was the easiest of all posts for me. There is something about the build from "a quickie" (which is what Val is looking for when he meets Keir) to the incredible complexity of what the relationship amounted-to as the series goes on that made this series, as literature, the best I've read so far.

I think the ultimate indicator of how much these two men mean to each other is at the end of the sixth novel (First Against the Wall) when Toreth decides he has had it with Warrick and their "affair." In the following weeks, until Warrick once again rescues him from himself, Val comes damn close to killing himself in an effort to escape happiness. It's the first, and only, time (so far) I've ever seen an MC literally dying before my eyes because he's been separated from his partner (through his own sheer stupidity.)

This is probably the most complex, fascinating, yet totally believable pairing I've seen so far in m/m fiction. I am completely at a loss for words when trying to present this relationship to the casual reader. If the BDSM aspect of the interaction is mentioned, at least half the readers won't give the series a chance but, without it, there wouldn't be the phenomenal push-and-pull that makes this couple the absolute pinnacle of perfection. (Even if Toreth still doesn't quite realize what he's got going for himself with Warrick....the dumb schmuck.)


John Toffler and Kyle Harris (the Rifter series by Ginn Hale)

Almost impossible to describe is the love the exists between the almost-impossible-to-recall incarnations of the two lovers who begin the Rifter series as John Toffler, an environmental grad student and Kyle Harris, his very odd, but very attractive, roommate.

This series is a story of a love that not only exists across time and space, but also between worlds and life incarnations impossible to describe. Each of the MCs has a minimum of three names throughout the series yet, despite being separated by space, time, two worlds, even death, these men remain absolutely devoted one to the other.

The story, a tale of connected worlds and connected lives, Earth/Nayeshi and Basawar; and John/Jahn/Jath'ibaye and Kyle/Ravishan/Kahlil, is so complicated on paper and so beautifully simple in its living that, if I had to choose an all-time favorite series, I would have to go with these stories of a love that not only lives beyond time and space but, in fact, proves the idiom that love conquers all.

Sometimes the most beautiful stories are the most complicated and almost impossible to describe. This series, simply, is one that should be a must-read for anyone who, even slightly, enjoys stories of alternate universes and undying love.


Zane Garrett and Beaumont Tyler Grady (the Cut & Run series by Madeleine Urban (co-author, first four books) and Abigail Roux)

I never thought I would list these two men in the same category as Val Toreth and Keir Warrick. The only thing I liked about the first novel in the series (Cut & Run) were its MCs. I should have known from the fact that I've read each succeeding novel back-to-back with its predecessor that this was a couple who would make the cut-off for this section.

Of all the guys I can think of, these two are the ones that may most perfectly fit the idea of Made For Each Other. Before hooking-up, neither man was strictly what could be called a gay man: Zane was married, happily, until his wife's death, then slept only with (male) professionals; and Ty has had numberless shack-ups with both men and women, never remaining with anyone for more than a night or two.

I initially described these two (more than a bit facilely) as Suddenly Magically Gay-For-You. It's a tribute to the authors' abilities to create two characters that really resonate with me that, despite up-and-down central plots, I was drawn back to the series by absolutely having to know what happened to these men.

Beginning with a "hate at first sight" loathing for each other as both FBI agents and men, each man separately comes to realize he isn't going to be able to handle going-on with his life without the other being in it. That this involves coming-out to homophobic family members; fighting an anti-gay workplace; as well as dealing with friends' disbelief and, in some cases, total disgust, only makes each man turn more tightly into the other.

The guys' biggest problem rests with Zane and Ty themselves. They simply seem unable to fit together without their rough edges irritating the other (which, of course, makes the series compulsively readable.)

Oddly, of all the couples I've been considering, I think these two are the most perfect emblem of what it means for two independent gay men to remake their lives in order to share one life together. I will, likely, never stop reading the series until Mrs. Roux hangs up her pen and stops writing novels for it.

In short, these two are my absolute, deep-down favorites of all the "perfect couples."

Emilie wrote: "I'll start off with a pairing that I don't remember seeing on the Gay Books forums before, but is popular: James and Bram of A Bit of Rough and Roughhousing by Laura Baumbach. Their story is just ..."

@Ems, I swear I'll get to these authors at some point if you'll just tell me (I'm too damn lazy to experiment) how you change a GR link into one where you use the name of the book you want. I hope it's easy.

PaperMoon wrote: "Oh Chuck - what a fun thread! I burst out laughing with your description of Matt and Hooch as Dan and Vadim-lite ... that is such an apt description LOL.

I've read all three cycles of Marquesate ..."

PaperMoon wrote: "Oh Chuck - what a fun thread! I burst out laughing with your description of Matt and Hooch as Dan and Vadim-lite ... that is such an apt description LOL.

I've read all three cycles of Marquesate ..."

However, seriously - Mind Fuck comes in at number #44??

No kidding, I know. I've been trying and trying to get people to read the novels. Give an accurate description, and everyone I've attempted to lure into reading the series just goes "some other time......I promise."

As to the Marquesate, I had a really tough time with a lot of the BDSM also. But there was something about the characters, and the veracity of the time and place, that made me continue. I was never sorry (witness the fact that I'm just about to download the first Special Forces: Soldiers to my Kindle.

Glad you and Ems enjoy the site. It's fun to just rant, at will, about authors and pairings I like. "They" can't stop me, "they" can only erase me.

And Hooch and Matt ARE Dan and Vadim-lite. I couldn't think of another way to describe them. But I did like the characters a lot. Actually, I quite like Marquesate quite a bit, and I have the same problems you do with polyamourousness (is that even a WORD??) and BDSM. Who'd 'a thunk it, huh?

I think we CANNOT forget Dan Krell and Ford McKinney who may fall into the classic gay fiction category since the book was written a decade ago (is that far back enough for classic??).

I rarely read a book more than once or twice and I have to confess I've read Comfort and Joy five times over (usually nearing Christmas season). I love the storyline arcs in the book. The novel starts with Danny looking for a hiding place to shelter from the anxieties of taking home his lover for the first time. The book ends with Danny finding that shelter within the arms of the man he loves. The motif of the carol God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen appears when one first notices the other and also when we as readers leave them to their newly established level in their relationship.

This book is much MORE than a gay holiday romance read - it's a powerfully and yet beautifully written expose of how two fiercely independent men (both eldest children in their families) who have to work so hard to push past their own discomfort, pride, fear, prejudice, social background, professional boundaries - to find what it takes to make a gay relationship work and last. Along the way, we discover the measure of loving someone who can still be haunted by the memories and ghosts of a brutally traumatised childhood and who also struggles with his HIV and hemophiliac status. We come to understand what it takes for someone to move beyond the safety of being an adored golden-child / best-little-boy-in-the-world and to risk all that for the chance of loving someone of the same gender and thereby finding himself in the process. We share both Danny and Ford's experience of pleasure in family members who accept and welcome as well as the pain of those who reject.

There are many many almost starkly poetic passages scattered throughout IMHO. If you're like me - several of these will bring you to tears. Go buy a copy and re-read this treasure over and over - you might discover both comfort and joy within.

PaperMoon wrote: "I think we CANNOT forget Dan Krell and Ford McKinney who may fall into the classic gay fiction category since the book was written a decade ago (is that far back enough for classic??).

I rarely re..."

Now THIS is the kind of book I was hoping to find when I "invented" this site. I know C & J has been mentioned on the site (I remember the cover), but I didn't get it pushed in my face, so ignored.

It's now at top of my TBR list (along with all those damn gardening/opera books.) You don't get the cheap e-books, do you?? (Currently on Stars & Stripes and loving it. Haven't met Zane's mother, yet, but she sounds like the Bitch of the Golden West.)

I do get the cheap e-books but some books are worth the price to get in hard-copy. Comfort and Joy is one of these. And the paperback version has a much nice cover than the hardback IMO.

PaperMoon wrote: "I do get the chap e-books but some books are worth the price to get in hard-copy. Comfort and Joy is one of these. And the paperback version has a much nice cover than the hardback IMO."

Hmmmph! I was talking about the "cheap" e-books. Chris O, and I had a chat about e-books that cost over $7.00 (and how it takes a brave man to buy them.) There are some, like Francis', that are worth getting in both e-book and hardcopy, but the fact that books on readers are subject to Amazon and B&N removing them at any time is sorta scary when you add up how much we spend on "books."

Emilie wrote: "A couple I like is Jonty Stewart and Orlando Coppersmith of the Cambridge Fellows Mysteries/"Lessons in..." books. They're lovely Edwardian gentlemen as the series begins in Lessons in Love. By t..."

Jonty and Orlando are the great gay couple, for me. Charlie Cochrane managed to create a gay couple that rings true to the era in which they lived - complete with the support of a few open-minded people around them. It was not an easy time for gay folk, but we did exist and thrive (E.M. Forster comes to mind). A fabulous series about an amazing couple. At the very end of the series is an epilogue that takes them into my own lifetime - for they were my grandparents' generation. That gave me chills.

Ulysses wrote: "Emilie wrote: "A couple I like is Jonty Stewart and Orlando Coppersmith of the Cambridge Fellows Mysteries/"Lessons in..." books. They're lovely Edwardian gentlemen as the series begins in Lessons..."

I have to admit that I've only read one of the Cambridge Fellows Mysteries, and I can't even remember what it was.

I think my takeaway was that I wanted, desperately, to slap the snot out of Jonty. I've a feeling, however, that I'm not being fair to the characters and that, today, I would find them quite likable.