Heathens, Pagans and Witches discussion

I have a hunch that this group has a high ratio of artists in it, so I'm opening this thread for the discussion of magic and art.

“Anyway, Art [making] is a magic which makes the hours melt away and even days dissolve into seconds, isn't that so, dear lady?”
Leonora Carrington

I tend to find I go into a trance-like state when I'm creating art. I follow inner voices and I'm often surprised with the results. I'm exhausted by the end of it--drained--but usually pretty satisfied too.

I'd love to hear of other people's approaches and whether they find a similar thing happening. What's your stance on magic and art?

I wasn't until you mentioned him, Jaq. :) Just looking him up now. Love his work. Thanks!

Here is his GR link for anyone else who is interested: Austin Osman Spare

I have no skills in the art deparatment, but I have my favourites, one of which is Sarah Lawless.

Gorgeous work. Found and watching her on DA too. :)

Love to get my thoughts together enough to reply to this question, but at the moment making Art is a distant dream...

It's cathartic for me. If I bottle it up, I go a bit batty. :)

Well, I am slightly deranged at the moment :)

Jaq wrote: "Are you familiar with Austin Osman Spare?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXOt21...
Alan Moore knows the score...as a man once sang...

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Jaq wrote: "Are you familiar with Austin Osman Spare?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXOt21...
Alan Moore knows the score...as a man once sang..."

That was wonderful. Love his work and his attitude. Thanks!

Been thinking, and I had to come back to add that I'm not surprised that Austin Spare is still mainly unrecognised for his contribution to art, some fifty years after his death.

The art world runs on an Emperor's New Clothes premise--what's being shown, discussed, or written about, is secondary to WHO is doing the showing, or discussing etc. It's the reason I walked out on my art career, ten years ago. You want to get ahead in the art world today, prepare to smooze, and you had better be good at writing and theorising. At art school we called ourselves bullsh*t artists (B.A) and we learnt the talk.

It is also interesting that although artists are making more money from art nowadays, we are receiving less. The inner circle of curators, gallery owners and art theoreticians filter it through, while we madly perform for them.

Oops, bit of a sour slant eh, but true. Art's one of the only things that allows me to still feel remotely free. I have my beeswax on the stove now. :)

I regularly make art "in conversation" with my dreams. It's exciting to "watch" my dreams respond to the art I make. It's definitely my main spiritual practice right now!

can highly recommend Thomas Sheridan' s art. I have a lot of his Dreamscapes prints. they just ooze magic.

Tristy wrote: "I regularly make art "in conversation" with my dreams. It's exciting to "watch" my dreams respond to the art I make. It's definitely my main spiritual practice right now!"

How does it work, Tristy? Does a piece of art get started first and develop along with dreams until it's finished? Or do the dreams mirror the art in its various stages?

Emma wrote: "can highly recommend Thomas Sheridan' s art. I have a lot of his Dreamscapes prints. they just ooze magic."

Here's a link for anyone not familiar with his art:

Thomas Sheridan

Emma wrote: "can highly recommend Thomas Sheridan' s art. I have a lot of his Dreamscapes prints. they just ooze magic."

Looking at his work now Emma. :)

Tristy wrote: "I regularly make art "in conversation" with my dreams. It's exciting to "watch" my dreams respond to the art I make. It's definitely my main spiritual practice right now!"

I find this fascinating too. A friend of mine is an art therapist. She says it's the art making process that's so important for artists, not necessarily the exhibition that comes after. Also I have been told that dream state actions release similar endorphins etc, and so echo the action in the waking world. So you are engaging in the art making process in your dreams, and probably benefiting from it in the same way you would if you were doing it in the waking world. My early morning thoughts on it anyway.

Or do you make art, dream about it, and gain more ideas in your dreams that continue the process? I do this a lot. I have been having wax and bone poppet dreams for the past few months! :0

Anyway I would love to hear more about it, Tristy!:)

When I was riding the subway in Toronto, I started hallucinating that each of the subways stations had an entity attached to it, who presided over the neighbourhood or burrow attached to it, and these images were inspired by the names of the stations.

Note the resolution is terrible. I lost my digital camera, so this is taken with my phone.

Although I didn't consciously try to make it symbolic, Pape is both the Greek nieghbourhood, and also the New-Age district. This figure is meant to be a female pope, or a Papessa. However, I started seeing this image, of a young woman in a headress and robes every time I passed the Pape station, long before I knew any of this. I've had these images since I was a child, and this was the first time it occurred to me, that they might be magical.

She'd make a wondrous tarot card, Aaron. You could do one for each of 22 of the subway stations and you'd have the major arcana - you could call it The Magical Underground Tarot :)

There's a tradition with art students in the belief that Leonardo created the Turin Shroud - its magic endures to the present day.

Little wrote: "I've been working on a series of wax poppets..."

Beautiful and disturbing, Little.

They're amazing, Little. I shall be thinking about them all day...

I'm in awe Gina. A very appropriate creation for Samhain.

Little wrote: "I've been working on a series of wax poppets.

I meant to say days ago how much I love these! I did persona dolls for a time, but they're nowhere near being in your class. Great stuff!

Persona dolls for teaching children? I can't sew for nuts. Not my medium but I admire those who can."

No, persona dolls for ritual work. It's another name for poppet, I guess. And they're not sewn (I can' sew). They're assemblages from bone and material and paint and whatever interesting scraps are around. I've been trying to find a picture of one of mine but no luck so far.

Brilliantly inspired, Gina :)

Thanks for Odin on the World Tree - it looks amazing - saving to dive into later when I've time.

Beautiful and amazing, Gina :)

I know what you mean about exhibiting - I lost interest years ago. I don't think it's just that the Internet is an easy alternative - for me it's more a feeling that I just don't need that sort of achievement any more.

Those are FABULOUS, Gina. Beautiful, profound, mysterious. Makes me itch to make things once more. I'll just have to live vicariously for awhile.

I'm almost at the post-exhibit phase myself but have not yet achieved that liberation. Looking forward to it.

Hi, I seem to have a different approach to art and paganism. I used to try and do original works but I just ended up feeling like I'd created a language that no-one but me could actually understand. That's when I got interested in the more traditional arts of the Celts and Vikings; and the whole notion of what traditional art really is.
To start off with I will copy a whole load of artifacts (metalwork, wood & stone carvings etc) and then when I feel that I've got the hang of it I will try and create my own versions of the motifs but converted to my own graphic style - as my favourite medium is black-and-white pen drawings.
If anyone would like a look there is an assortment of my earlier artworks on my Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/gavin.white....
For me it is another way of attuning to past cultures and of starting to ask questions about the meanings of the recurrent images and icons that each tradition develops in its own way. As such, I almost treat my art as an investigative tool which helps me connect to my roots; at best it can open up new avenues of ideas that can be related to what I have learnt from reading ancient texts.
All the best, Gavin

Gavin wrote: "Hi, I seem to have a different approach to art and paganism."

Your work sounds amazing, but I can't view Facebook. I think your approach is absolutely valid and important. I used to do tradition-based art, but in my case it was based on Native American tradition. I learned a tremendous amount from it, both in an art sense and a soul sense. So, yes! An investigative tool. Best to you.

I'm not a Facebook member, so can't see them either Gavin - but I love your in-depth approach and your artwork sounds wonderful.

All right, thought I'd share, rather than just talking about it. This is a medicine shield I did based on Native American tradition, before I knew what I was doing (still not sure I know):

http://bit.ly/Kz6BgZ

And here's a closer look:

http://bit.ly/19IH6FT

What's funny about this is that I had a powerful dream about a wolf jumping out of a fire and did this piece. I later learned from my teacher that some tribes believe the wolf was responsible for bringing the ability to make fire to the tribe. I didn't know that at the time of the dream.

Then again, there was the little old lady who looked at this, scowled, and said, "Just why is that dog on fire?" *shrug*

Minsma said: "some tribes believe the wolf was responsible for bringing the ability to make fire to the tribe"
That's a powerful image, thank you for sharing it Minsma. It reminds me of the Norse myth where the sun and moon are both chased through the skies by their own wolves. At the end of the mythic cycle the wolves will catch and devour their quarry before the world is reborn.

Little wrote: "I love the shield Minsma! Just gorgeous! (And a very funny reaction from the old woman :D)"

Thanks, Gina! She did give a certain perspective to the work. ;D

Gavin wrote: "For the sensible people who don't have anything to do with Facebook here is a different link to some of my artwork.
http://solariapublications.wordpress......."

Ah, the frustration. Wordpress is demanding a password.

Gavin wrote: "Minsma said: "some tribes believe the wolf was responsible for bringing the ability to make fire to the tribe"
That's a powerful image, thank you for sharing it Minsma. It reminds me of the Norse m..."

Thanks. And that's very interesting about the Norse legend, which I also hadn't heard of. (I spent way too much time on Greek/Roman/Sumerian.)

Minsma - hopefully third time lucky. I've now uploaded my art images to my Goodreads photo profile. Would have made sense to do this first time round.
Gavin

That's a powerful image for a shield, Minsma. It reminds me of the Fire Card in the Minchiate 'tarots', which depict a dog, or sometimes a wolf, actually in a fire.

Gavin wrote: "Minsma - hopefully third time lucky. I've now uploaded my art images to my Goodreads photo profile. Would have made sense to do this first time round.
Gavin"

Victory! And definitely worth the wait. I'm not much of a draw-er myself, being more of a tactile person, so I certainly appreciate the skill and beauty of these. I like them all, but I particularly like the Celtic and Sumerian inspired things. Thanks for sharing.

Nell wrote: "That's a powerful image for a shield, Minsma. It reminds me of the Fire Card in the Minchiate 'tarots', which depict a dog, or sometimes a wolf, actually in a fire."

Thanks, Nell. And thanks for posting that picture. Very interesting.

I've come to the conclusion that firewolves must be archetypal because there are depictions in a number of different cultures—I just happened to have been completely ignorant of that back then and experimenting in Native American tradition.

My wolf was inspired by this guy, Los Lobos being a favorite band back in the day.

Fabulous Gavin! Are you creating a Norse tarot? You already have Strength and the Magus and Odin is the Hanged Man, except that he's not actually hanging in that image. Aegir looks like the Emperor.

Minsma wrote: "I've come to the conclusion that firewolves must be archetypal because there are depictions in a number of different cultures"
"

Finding the same or similar images appearing in different cultures is fascinating and makes one wonder if they're so old that they originated in a time before worldwide wanderings. A huge subject to study though...

Love the Los Lobos wolf too :)

Nell wrote: "Are you creating a Norse tarot?"
Thanks Nell. I started off doing a regular set of Tarot trumps but ran out of steam by the time I got to the Devil. Then I got into the Norse myths and started to work on a series of cards - the gods, goddesses, mythical beings and realms but that fizzled out after about 20 images. The problem I found with Norse tradition is that you know so little about some of the major characters and have very limited artistic resources to draw upon. Ultimately that's why I started to explore the Greek star myths and the Ancient Near East.

Maybe you'll eventually go back to complete the regular set and finish the Norse - I can see how a whole 78 card deck would be difficult, but collectors are happy with just the trumps if the artwork is as fascinating as yours.

Hi Little, your wax works with the bones really are the stuff of dreams and nightmares.
(http://www.georginaannetaylor.com/got...)

They reminded me of the "homunculus" - tiny creatures coming to life in the alchemist's crucibles and flasks. Your figurines have more than 'life', they have 'being', they seem to suffer and brood and scheme. I've sent your link to my mate Ben who I'm sure will love them to pieces.
Your photo series are beautiful too - they seem to be overflowing with spirits. Its as if the physical reality behind the images are the fleeting illusion.

When I was a kid I used to collect road-kill birds too. I would remove the wings, douse them in my mum's hairspray (which helps to mummify and sterilize them) and then pin them out on my bedroom walls. The most gruesome bit was cutting off their heads and boiling them up in a pan to get the skulls and then blowing their pulped up brains out with a drinking straw.
Ah! childhood bliss. Hope no one minds me sharing that!

Gavin wrote: "Hope no one minds me sharing that!"

I used to do bone carving. The process for getting the bones clean ain't pretty! ;-) A bath of peroxide works well after the boiling for the stubborn bits.

Hope no one minds me sharing that, either!

Little wrote: " I use a worm farm to do most of the work for me."

Actually, worms and ant hills and beetles are the very best method of all. Nature is very efficient. Failing that, boiling in vinegar water and then a peroxide bath. After the peroxide they sometimes have a chalky coating, but that scrapes off quite easily and leaves blinding white bones that eventually regain that golden patina, especially as you're handling them and carving.

I used to buy soup bones for my late, very much missed dog Tip and she'd "sanctify" them for me. Really, there were no bad vibes once she'd finished and I loved the shapes her chewing suggested. But yeah, the slaughterhouse isn't an ideal place to pick up art materials.

Little wrote: "Hmm, just realised that I haven't been getting all my notifications. Sorry about the delay in my reply Minsma! (Will have to go back and check discussions after this to make sure I haven't missed m..."

I've noticed that green hue on bones, too. It must be part of the weathering process. It's quite easy to overdo peroxide. If left too long, the bones will start to dissolve...or at least there's a residue left in the bottom of the pan. (Delightful!)

Ah, Tip. She was the smartest dog I've ever known, and a sweet old soul. A pound puppy, too, so we really lucked out with her. If someone told me she was a respiriting of another of our dogs, Tony, I wouldn't be too skeptical. They were both very smart with wonderful, large spirits, both medium-sized dogs of a caramel brown color. In Tony's case she was curly-haired, being part terrier, and Tip was a slick-haired shepherd mix.

Anyway, Tip was part of a series of events that brought me back from the terrible brink of materialism. I went through a phase in my life where I had just about given up on everything, declared to myself and others that there was nothing else beyond the here and now. The Universe called my bet, so to speak, and sent a number of experiences my way until I finally capitulated and said, "I give up! There is something else!"

Tip and my cat Mocha were big parts in that. She and Mocha loved to play with each other. They'd go round and round this swivel chair we had, first Mocha chasing Tip, then Tip chasing Mocha. When Mocha was killed by a car (which nearly killed me), Tip continued to play this game for a few days. She also would sit in front of a favorite window of Mocha's staring at the spot Mocha liked to sit in and whining. I'd feel the spot Tip stared at and it was distinctly colder than the surrounding area. There was other stuff, but after several days of this, I finally said, "It's okay, Mocha. You can move on. I'm okay." The incidents stopped and Tip went back to her business.

She was most dedicated to my dad, totally devoted. She liked to go out to the front yard and sit near the driveway waiting for him to come home. When he died unexpectedly, she went out there the next night as usual and waited for him. My mom and I watched her, bawling buckets because we didn't know how to make her understand he wouldn't be back. She stood up at one point, wagging her tail like she did when Dad's truck came into view, and then after several long minutes, she turned and came back into the house. She never went out to wait for him again, as if he'd come by that night to let her know he wouldn't be doing that anymore.

Big-souled, as I said.

She joined him about a year later, out of grief, I think.

That's pretty amusing about your in-laws. Can't you just hear them telling their friends, "Gina's nice and all, but..."

I used to do polymer clay sculpture and I'd sell a few pieces here and there at work. I was having a conversation one day with one of the people who liked my stuff and somehow the subject of the bone carving came up. Another person with us, a very sweet lady but a dedicated Evangelical Christian, was horrified. "You mustn't do bone carving anymore!" she said. "Why?" "It's a good way to invite demonic possession!"

Well. I explained to her that I blessed the bones with sage and thanked the animal spirits for allowing me to do my art, and that the bones had a good feel, but she was quite adamant. When the other lady expressed an interest in seeing them and I brought them in to work, the Evangelical lady wouldn't even stay in the same room with them. I had to take them back out to the trunk of my car before she'd return, and I bet she was saying a bunch of silent prayers even then.

Then again, I do think it's a good idea to work with these things carefully and mindfully. Because of one thing I am certain: I do not have all the answers.

I know you'll find that shocking. ;-)

Little wrote: "I envy animals their ability to see things we can't. I think they are more connected than we are, also far, far smarter than people give them credit for."

I absolutely agree with this. Mocha went ahead and opened the doors to perception for me in many, many ways. I never doubted the Otherwhere again after that.

How can carving a bone lead to demonic possession?

Yeah, what is that? Why do things that are not namby-pamby nice always get slapped with that label? As you said, no conjuring or ritual involved, except the ritual of cleansing them. Mrs. Evangelical's first husband had a curiosity for the occult and many fine, rare volumes of books. She wouldn't allow them in the "civilized" part of the house, confining them to a locked cabinet in his office (as if they might otherwise get out and attack her!). I hate to think of what happened to them when he died. I suspect the worst.

I agree on working mindfully. I certainly wouldn't be trying to use my poppets to enforce my will or dictate events in my favour.

Absolutely not. It's all about form and shape to me, and a spirit of wonder. I only have one of the bone carvings left. I gave the others away or they otherwise scarpered off. I thought I had pictures of the piece but couldn't find them on my harddrive, so I'll try taking pictures of them this weekend with the cell phone. Unfortunately, my good camera has gone belly up.

Little wrote: "but I'm reading too fast and can't remember which book it came from, nor decipher my scrawled notes."

lol - know how that goes, when the fire is in you and you're blazing through books.

How did you go with the photos Minsma?

The ones I was going to take of the bones, you mean? It's still Friday afternoon here, mate. I haven't had a chance to do it yet. Maybe Saturday afternoon or Sunday.

Now I have an itch to make 'doorways' to the Otherworlds on one of our hills.

Don't scarper off too far! I once passed through a doorway on Glastonbury Tor and have never been the same since, but I don't think I changed dimensions. Then again, how would I ever know? On some other earth, perhaps I disappeared never to be seen again. ;-D

Oh, she's lovely. Just looking on my small phone screen. Can't wait to see her on the big screen tomorrow.