Speaker Geeks! discussion

Don't think there was a topic on this yet so I made one.

My main question: Is it courageous to end your life or is it weak?

Weak. Very weak. Give me a reason it is is courageous....

Weak

(I keep going back and forth on this.)
Being able to work up the nerve to end your whole life? Knowing you'll (most likely, unless it's in your religion) never see the people you love again, or allowing them to suffer from the pain of your death?

It's weak, definitely, though I gotta say usually those people have bee pretty brave.

Some people aren't brave. They just do it out of depression. They were weak to do it. They had no courage, there is actually a lot of times that they just can't handle life, and it doesn't matter to lose it all.

I think it is just what people turn to when they think there is no other way out. They think that they should end it now before it gets any worse, when really, it ends the possibility of it ever getting better.

I for one though, would not give into it.

Ninja: Kassi: Aphrodite: A positive attitude wrote: "Some people aren't brave. They just do it out of depression. They were weak to do it. They had no courage, there is actually a lot of times that they just can't handle life, and it doesn't matter t..."

Well, um... depression is a very serious thing. It's very hard and although I agree overall it's weak, some people feel so desperate that it's the only way.

Yes...I know. I've attempted suicide, and I felt, weak. I was depressed. Suicide is a much-to-permanent-and-serious-solution to a much-to-temporary-problem

Liane wrote: " WARNING WALL OF TEXT. TURN BACK NOW.

I think it is weak but personally, I think that it is, above all, selfish. You're going to cause a lot of pain to your friends and family, you're going to de..."

(I'm not exactly arguing with you--as I don't really have an opinion on the matter--) but the kids you speak of, the ones starving and relying on the food their mothers' earned from prostitution, etc, are usually still loved. Their mother does what she does for a reason, usually because she loves her children, so they aren't alone.

You say it's selfish because they're causing pain to the ones who love them, but what if no one does.

Also, I once read this book where this girl's mother was a prostitute and when the girl reached a certain age her mother made her join the business as well, except the girl had no choice in the matter. She was about 14, and was raped by people over and over while her mother watched in the corner and she cried. If she committed suicide, would that still be considered selfish?

If a person commits suicide, it is a little selfish. They are hurting their loved ones and basically ending their own pain at the expense of others. If the person does not have any loved ones, I still don't think they should do it just because they feel like they are of no worth which is generally why people do it. Maybe if they found a support group. Maybe if people created more support groups for teenagers with depression. Everyone should know that they are important and should fight for their life instead of giving it away so freely.

Oh, my gosh, yes.

:O OH
MY
GOD

:O

How could people do such a thing. She was just a kid. We all say that people who do suicide are weak, selfish etc. But no, they need love and acceptance. How can we judge a little girl to be selfish and weak. I also believe that suicide thought is momentary. If in that moment, someone is there with the person, it may pass. When I was in school, we had a story. A man had lost everything and inspite of trying things, couldn't do anything for his family and one day he got exhausted and went to railway lines and lied down in tracks to commit suicide. He was lying on tracks. 10 mins passed, then half an hour, then one hour.. he got frustrated and got up from tracks and enquired why train didn't came. and He came to know that train got delayed. And then he felt different and thought to give life a try.

I just want to say that people commiting suicide and own victims who need love and acceptance.

I think they have been strong for too long. (I don't support suicide)

Most people commit suicide as a teenager. That would take a lot to hold a blade to your skin, or tie a noose, or write notes to your loved ones. They have been through more than anyone should in their whole lice if they are thinking about suicide. Kids should be kids, not adults. No one should be 15 going on 30.

Some people say that this is selfish, but I don't think so. They have been through so much, people have been selfish not to help them. I think suicide should be a chance for us to step back and realize what we did wrong. They didn't do it for fun. What did we do wrongs? They were obviously going through a lot that the people closest to them didn't even realize.

So, it is not strong to commit suicide, but it is like relief from all the strength they needed to with stand to stay alive. It is not weak either, they fought their hardest and couldn't any longer.

There was news about this kid from one of the leading universities in our country who killed herself because she cannot pay her dues.

While most activists blamed the tuition hikes and shits, I think the kid should've been stronger or more resourceful. Why didn't she try part time job or she could pause for a while and get back to school once everything's alright financially.

Well of course majority would give sympathy, but I think the better contribution would be honest opinions too so that stuffs like this will cease to happen as it is a sin, and anyway, it does not really solve anything.

Almira wrote: "There was news about this kid from one of the leading universities in our country who killed herself because she cannot pay her dues.

While most activists blamed the tuition hikes and shits, I thi..."


Did she leave a note saying so? How do they know that's the cause?

Hannah wrote: "Did she leave a note..."

Hi Hanna, yes she left a note. Although, I was doubting that the tuition thingy was the only reason. I know people could have different views and strengths, but when I think about it, it's just not convincing that a person would kill herself because she can't pay her tuitions. FYI, she's only a freshman, the poor kid.

Lia wrote: "Almira wrote: "There was news about this kid from one of the leading universities in our country who killed herself because she cannot pay her dues.

While most activists blamed the tuition hikes a..."

Hi Lia, yes. You know her? *__* On the "giving sympathy side", I have nothing against it. But, it looked like people focused only in the part where she cannot pay her tuition and blamed systems and all that. It's as if Kristel did nothing wrong, when in fact she did a very wrong thing - suicide, and proved nothing in the end.

Lia wrote: "the pure story of why she did it..."

Lia, exactly. That last line. I hope people would just respect her death (even if it was a sin to do that so), and would stop involving her in rally-reasons.

Lia wrote: "Well, seeing as her parents are advocating the "Scrap STFAP" movement and allowed her name to be released in media..."

I very much agree with all your words Lia. Even in PUP (where I came from), activists rallied and made her one of their reasons.

Lia wrote: "Was that during the chair burning? I remember something like that being on the news. If you don't mind my asking, what year are you?"

Yep. During that. *__* oh, those innocent chairs.

I graduated last May.

I think people who criticize suiciders mostly do that because they put themselves in the shoes of the ones who miss someone who commited suicide. If we dare to step into the shoes of people who ever THOUGHT about suicide we would be (and talk) way more carefully. First, it is not coward, actually it is VERY BRAVE. Have any of you ever tried to commit any kind of injury upon yourselves? Yes, it´s hard. It´s even hard to figure it out in your head, more in deed. It´s against human nature and also against common sense. Just imagine coming to therms of doing a kind of harm that´s going to cause you a strong pain and is irreversable. Yeah, makes most knees go weak. Now let´s try to understand what kind of pain could be so hurtful, so hateful and so hopeless that would make a person to THINK the only possible way to end it is to finish life itself. Now we are stepping out of our cosy comfort zone and trying to discuss suicide decently, without fake moral or misjudgements.

I'm recovering from self harm and used to be suicidal so no I don't think it's selfish. Yeah, you should try to keep fighting because thing will get better but sometimes you just feel like you're through.

Yeah. That's true, H99

Lia wrote: "Oh wow, those chairs got on the news >< A lot of people are still rallying to Kristel as the poster child of Scrap STFAP. Especially in UPD. While I'm sure that scraping that whole song and dance is good, maybe they should just leave her alone for a little while...
Hey congrats on graduating! "

Ikr. But I don't support the burning of chairs, if you want to know the truth *__* it's just 'wasting'. There could be other ways to express what you want, burning is not one of it.
Yeah, leave her and let her be at peace for now. It's bad enough that she killed herself.

Thanks! And you? What year are you in?

Lia wrote: "I remember a particularly cruel jab someone once said (can't remember who or what context) where when he was asked to give advice to people trying to commit suicide, he replied with, "Make sure to ..."

"Make sure to slice downward."
I have several thoughts but I don't wanna say it all. But one thing is, I didn't find that line very offensive. I see something positive about it despite the fact that it sounds like an encouragement.

I think she meant it sounds like the person is encouraging the other to commit suicide, or trying to teach them techniques to do it.

W-wait. I said, "there is something positive" even though it sounded like an encouragement. In my statement, the "encouragement" is a negative.
Nobody should encourage suicide, but when Lia's friend said "make sure to slice downward", I sort of read it in a way that it would sound like a challenge. It translated to me as - Go on, be the bravest man and don't end up in a hospital, go straight to your funeral.
It's like an indirect discouragement, or if not that, a statement that would help the person think twice before he actually proceeds.

Elevetha wrote: "Lia wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Liane wrote: " WARNING WALL OF TEXT. TURN BACK NOW.

I think it is weak but personally, I think that it is, above all, selfish. You're going to cause a lot of pain to your ..."

Ignoring the fact that this isn't the abortion thread--
suicide and abortions are different. Suicides are usually (emphasis on usually) committed by teenagers who feel they are misunderstood. Abortions are performed in situations where a mother does not want a child. Both are choices. Self-harm and suicide are choices, just like abortions should be. No one has to commit suicide, just like no one has to get an abortion. The people committing suicide, while it is tragic, are allowed to do whatever they want with their bodies, because it's theirs! Mothers aren't "killing" their children to prevent them from horrors, they're preventing themselves from what could happen. Yes, some may claim it's selfish, but I think everyone should have control of their own body.

I think you're comment was for Liane, but uh, yeah. Oops.

Elevetha wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Elevetha wrote: "Lia wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Liane wrote: " WARNING WALL OF TEXT. TURN BACK NOW.

I think it is weak but personally, I think that it is, above all, selfish. You're going to..."

I never noticed your profile picture before. It's cool.

Yeah, I replied. But, um. Thoughts on suicide? Now that I know your view on abortions.

Lia wrote: "Almira wrote: "W-wait. I said, "there is something positive" even though it sounded like an encouragement. In my statement, the "encouragement" is a negative.
Nobody should encourage suicide, but w..."

No problem at all. :]

I don't really understand how it's selfish. I mean, I guess I understand what you mean, but you are looking at it from a totally unemotional standpoint. The people who think it is selfish obviously have never felt like that. I'm not judging, I'm just giving my opinion. People who commit suicide either A) believe that there is no one that will miss them, B) Hate themselves too much to care because they can't live with themselves anymore, or C) have been putting up with depression so long, and are so deep in the depths of despair that they aren't exactly sane enough to make a good decision. It's the same reason some people start drugs because they know it's bad for them. It's their choice because they hate themselves.

ok.
So i read some of the first comments which say that suicide is weak.

But to finally end your life takes a lot of effort, and a weakling would probably be too scared.

BUT i dont support suicide. Once one of my teacher said that "Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem." And yes i agree with that.

I think that life has a LOT to offer, and there are so mny wonderful people on Earth (even though you may not see them always) so dont let just a few problems and emotions cloud your jusdgement, ruin all your chances of happiness before you get to experience them.

Agreed. I don't think we're helping anyone calling people who commit suicide weak and selfish. There's a boy at my school (he's going into grade 6) that's made fun of for being "gay" because he dances. He moved over to my school last year because the teachers were turning a blind eye on him and saying he had mental issues (he's a bright kid). He's continually made fun if and harassed, and his older brother has gotten into fights over him with HIS friends. And through all this, he's had suicidal thoughts. If he would've gone through with his thoughts, would that make him selfish and weak? Suicide isnt something that is solely caused by internal problems, but by external problems that they might not have control over. What's selfish about that?

Suicidal people dont want to die, they want the pain to end because its all theyve ever known. They feel that maybe, just maybe they can escape the pain and terror of their life with a slightly less terror.

Thats not an opinion, its a fact. I would know...

Relating to what's asked on the first comment of this thread, I'd like to say suicide is neither courageous nor weak. People who commit suicide don't do so just because it feels appealing or certainly not because they want to show others something. (There are exceptions of course, where they just try to grab attention with all those self-harming activities. The fact is that those people never want to die!) They do so out of sheer mental agony, they do so when not a single thing seems to exist worth living. We, the society, blame them saying there's always some positives, we say to look on the bright side of life. But the thing is there ARE certain times when nothing can make you living your life. To understand such a person's mental state, we actually have to go through what he/she has gone through.
Definitely it's a choice, and most of the times there probably would have been a way out other than committing suicide, but the person who commits suicide, doesn't remain in a condition to find that way. Death seems slightly easier than living, and hence, the decision.

One of my friends said he was going to kill himself and he was serious; I said with a grin "OK; go ahead and do it; what are you waiting for! Go home, take a shower, get rid of your stash and porn etc, then clean your room and do it. I could teach you ways if you want it to go painless; and please don't bother writing a suicide-note. No one is going to care as I couldn't care less." ....and you know, I kinda meant it.

(view spoiler)[ He's still alive though. Happily married with a kid. Not 'clinically depressed' anymore. haha

There are crippled people near railway stations living off the bits of scraps, picking their dinners from garbage cans but living life in their own glorious ways; facing life's bitter obstacles. Accepting life what it is. They don't go into depression. Just because your comfort zone is breached doesn't make you a clinically depressed person. It may sound extremely harsh; but losers aren't supposed to live in this competitive and ruthless world; mourning and wasting food in the process!! I don't live an easy life and believe most of you don't either. Use that suicidal 'guts' and do something revolutionary or read thousands of books and die naturally if you're too lazy for 'revolutionary'. Otherwise go die like a little b***h if you want an easy way out. Honestly, I wouldn't care less. Think about it. (: (hide spoiler)]

I do think there are cases when suicide is justifiable though. For example, if you're terminally ill & in great pain, or if you're captured by ppl who will kill you if you do not betray your friends or family, then IMHO it should be morally acceptable to kill yourself. Also, sometimes ppl commit suicides because of mental illness which is something they can not really control. In general I think the morality of suicide, as well as if, or to what extend, the individual or the wider society is responsible depends on the context & may be different for different cases.

Empty and Alone wrote: "Suicidal people dont want to die, they want the pain to end because its all theyve ever known. They feel that maybe, just maybe they can escape the pain and terror of their life with a slightly les..."

But really, if they were STRONG ENOUGH then they could fight it, especially if they had loved ones.

Guys I know suicide is awful.
I even considered it for a few... minutes.
And only minutes because I know how BAD it is.
It is PERMANENT DAMAGE, and it sickens and kills me on the inside to think that there are so many peiple right now that feel helpless, and that they just want to die.

But the FACT is that there is no going back, and most likely, with the humans will to live, (whther the depressed person knows it or now,) their last thought probably would not be good. It would be of regret, and is that how you want to die? I DOUBT IT.

I know this is completely unrelated and I am not calling peopple here who have suffered from depression or suidal thoughts selfish, but honestly guys, there will always be someone worse off then u. So stay alive for them, so show the less fortunate that YOU made it, so maybe they can too. Like what if you were starving, in peverty, homeless and an orphan. Most likely they have depression, and obviously TONS of other medical problems. But they keep going until they die. The least we can do is stay alive, and be grateful for such an amazing life we have.

Sorry for all of the miss-spellings. I was typing pretty fast because I need to start my homework, and I just... was sad when I typed this all so... you know.
I didnt mean to offend anyone here.

Som wrote: "One of my friends said he was going to kill himself and he was serious; I said with a grin "OK; go ahead and do it; what are you waiting for! Go home, take a shower, get rid of your stash and porn ..."

Wow o.o

Yeah Kaylee, nice post.

H99..Technically, I was being optimistic. lol.

I do know what's being clinically depressed; cause I was; used to take buncha meds and attend crappy shrink sessions. Crappy meds made me look older. Those may just calm you down but you gotta do something more to cure it. Thing is, I don't think 90% of these fakes have MDD...I can tell just by having a real life convo; this vexes me.
Rest of the 10%; around half of them have major disorders, extremely suicidal blokes. I suggest you send them to a rehab if you want to save them; where they can't kill themselves. Still, If you want to reassure them that all is fine and they should not kill themselves cause life is a beautiful thing etc flowery stuff, you're just being an all around ass.

It's not new to me that I'm being lectured about this and why I'd not think and feel this way (if it's a part of my cloaked depression, you'd agree with me then? How will it work? Wouldn't that be a little ironic!); hate all you want but I couldn't care less; the much I want to. Look at the bright side.. at least I'm honest about it.

My cousin brother killed himself (in 2010, 2 years older than me,); if one of you have assured him his that life is precious, or give him lectures or reasons to live etc BS, he would of killed himself in 2008.

And reading a thousand books was an example, metaphor..watch 1000s of movies, help 1000s of people, travel 1000 places....this is goodreads so I went with books..

Bright cheerful reassurances from happy people, or anybody for that matter, dont help. It just makes us feel worse and stuff. If you actually want to reassure someone or make them feel a little better just sit with them and be there. You dont have to talk you dont even have to do anything besides be there with them

Actually, if one of my friends were to say something like that to me, I don't know what I'd do. My initial reaction would be to tell someone, like a councilor. But what if I was asked to keep it a secret? I don't know.

Think, You may feel how that friend cares about you; considering that the tone is obviously a sarcastic one. Like I'm not basking in flower garden either so I can understand your pain...stuffs like that.

About my honesty, when I said it, the tone was sarcastic as it's self evident. But I meant it because I was upset about people I care about, thinking about killing themselves for 'comparatively small reasons'....I see myself in my friends; it's about fighter's spirit, honor and respect; despite you loss everything and you're on your own and you're still a fighter...if you can't keep up then you're a sore loser in my dictionary and unworthy of being a friend. I fought my depression battle because I care about people who love me. Friends are supposed to care about each other the most, if you want an easy escape leaving me mourning then who's heartless here?!

^Nope

Hey Kaylee, I didn't mean your post was sarcastic lol

I was saying:

(example)
Friend A: My life shuks! I wanna kill myself tonight cause my girl left me and I broke my iPad, at the same time..noooooo

Friend B: 'Go ahead then' (sarcastic one!); my life isn't pretty either but I'm here fighting and surviving (I just fought MDD too). You want to be the heartless one cause so many people love you and you're going to leave them, including me! Not cool bruv!

PS: Am I that difficult to understand! Anyways, Sorry about that!

And yeah, it's probably my last post in this thread; so those who are thinking about killing themselves; please don't! It's mostly childish and y'all know that. 'Som' here cares about you and would love to meet you and learn new stuffs from you...stay strong! Go watch a funny movie..like 'Anchorman'! (: cheers

See for me suicide isn't a good thing or a bad thing. I mean I've thought about it many time. I've tried to physically hurt myself more than I've thought about suicide. See I almost tried it once. Then I thought about it more and realized. I'd be putting the people I love through so much pain. I'd be hurting my sister and my parents and the people who pretend they like me ( but I doubt they like me. I try everything to be a good friend and I end up just walking to class alone). I then went on the Internet to just think. And I found this site that does numerology. And I put in my info. And I looked at it, and it told me that I was gonna grow up to be someone important. And I thought about it. I still hurt my self sometimes. But I really don't care. I don't think people should commit suicide but, if they wanna do that stuff than they shouldn't be seen differently than anyone else. See the only reason I cut myself is because my parents are fighting constant and my dad is a horrible person who constantly picks on me. And others have more serious shit goin on and they do it to distract themselves from emotions. It's wrong, but for some it helps. ( I'm trying to break that habit in myself)

H99 wrote: "Lia wrote: "Highly industrial countries like Japan suffer a large number of suicides, mostly from students who don't pass into their preferred high school. It's a bit...strange I guess, how we prio..."

Lol academics are my life along with debate and swim team... I'm taking every freaking advanced class I can, so I'll have to take classes online at a college senior year. ^_^ I get that though, it's weird.

H99 wrote: "✿.Ⓐⓟⓞⓞⓡⓥⓐ.✿ wrote: "H99 wrote: "Lia wrote: "Highly industrial countries like Japan suffer a large number of suicides, mostly from students who don't pass into their preferred high school. It's a bi..."

You'll do awesome! It's SO hard though, but I'd rather take difficult classes and get into Ivy League than not challenge myself at all. It's like people don't want to think these days... Oh and with swimming I also do debate (obviously...). XD

H99 wrote: "✿.Ⓐⓟⓞⓞⓡⓥⓐ.✿ wrote: "H99 wrote: "✿.Ⓐⓟⓞⓞⓡⓥⓐ.✿ wrote: "H99 wrote: "Lia wrote: "Highly industrial countries like Japan suffer a large number of suicides, mostly from students who don't pass into their ..."

I'm only a sophomore, but I plan to go into law actually. I'm very interested in federal law and public interest law so there is a possibility I might double up on it.

I LOVE THAT BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do love to think... :)