Wild Things: YA Grown-Up discussion

I am uncertain if this is really YA, but I AM using it to help my children understand the Holocaust in a very realistic, but not so graphic, way right now. I think every child aged 12-18 should read it.

Lest we forget...

Sounds good. I really look forward to reading Maus after hearing that you were reading it with your kids. I even looked for it at B&N but they didn't have it. I will have to order it online.

Funny enough, loving graphic novels, I haven't yet read Maus, but I will soon! I hear it is great for really seeing the Holocaust through the eyes of a survivor.

When I teach about the Holocaust, I plan on using this as a tool. I hope to get a job teaching high school European history when I graduate. I think it's fantastic for reluctant readers as well!

Fiona wrote: "I want to read Maus so badly - I've never really been into comics or graphic novels but I want to try with this."

It's very well-done. The symbolism is fairly obvious, the Nazis are cats, the Jews are mice, the Polish are pigs, etc.

I have a sort of fascination with the Holocaust. I mean, nothing morbid or anything, it's just that I seem to gravitate to books dealing with that subject matter. I really love the stuff dealing with the survivors' stories. As sad and heartbreaking as they can be, they also seem to be so hopeful and uplifting. I think maybe that's why I read them.

Since I have just been introduced to graphic novels, I just might plunge into them with Maus.

Maus is definitely a survivor's story. You know that going in, which is part of why I like it that my children are reading it. Anne Frank is, of course, a must read, but you know she dies. You fall in love with her and she dies. Maus is more about hope.

Like April said, the symbolism is very simplistic, which allows a young reader to focus on what's happening, instead of trying to disect it, and look for meaning.

What also makes is appropriate for younger readers, is the use of the different animals as different ethnicities. Of course the reader knows what they represent, but it's easier to see a Mouse, or Pig treated in an atrocious way than a human. You can discuss later and their mind makes that final connection.

It's very moving and still hurts the heart, but in a less bold, easier to read and digest way.

I think I am going to order this tonight. I still have quite a few on Mt. TBR, but I don't want to forget this one. Is it just the two volumes that make up the complete set?

Becky wrote: "I think I am going to order this tonight. I still have quite a few on Mt. TBR, but I don't want to forget this one. Is it just the two volumes that make up the complete set?"

Yes.

Maus is a fabulous book. It's probably really a borderline Adult/Young Adult. I think thatArt Spiegelman intended the book(s) for adults; but people seem to have encouraged high school folks to read it and it has become accepted as young adult. I guess this proves the rule that there truely is no clear separation between genres when the book happens to be excellent.

If we ever choose to group-read this, I suggest that we read The Complete Maus. This edition combines Maus I A Survivor's Tale My Father Bleeds History and Maus II A Survivor's Tale And Here My Troubles Began. These two books are really a pair as opposed to book/sequel.

As an aside, this book, The Complete Maus, is one of those treasured books that I "lent" to a friend and it never came back. <:(

The graphic style is so simple and so powerful.

Mosca, I hate when people act as if loaned books are gifts. (But I won't get started on that! I'll be here all day! LOL)

I found The Complete Maus online at B&N for about $24.00, and the two separate volumes at Amazon for about $22.00. I'm undecided if I want to get them separately or as a set. *gnaws fingernails* Decisions, decisions!

I DO want these though, and I will purchase them.

I could cry when I think of all the books people "borrowed" from me and never returned! I'm never letting anyone touch any of my books again! LOL

Becky wrote: "Mosca, I hate when people act as if loaned books are gifts. (But I won't get started on that! I'll be here all day! LOL)

I found The Complete Maus online at B&N for about $24.00, and the two separ..."

It's just a suggestion, but buy the TWO volumes, as opposed to them in one. I know they are meant to be read together, but I think it's important for a young person to really read them seperately.

The first book eases you into the idea of human atrocity. Brady hadto take a break as we waited for the second volume.

If you buy the complete volume, it's too tempting to just keep reading straight through. As an adult, that's fine for you, but if you ever plan on sharing this eye-opening story with a youngster, they will benefit from a forced break.

Sounds like a plan Kandice. It's cheaper anyway. :) Also, Amazon has the Night/Dawn/Day set by Elie Wiesel for $11!! O_O I might get that too... (And the Stand: Captain Trips Graphic Novel, but that's a splurge!)

I read this in my sophomore year of college for a class. I think they're wonderful, I love graphic novels (for the most part) and Art Spiegelman did a fantastic job with this. I also really liked how he included his own struggles as the son of two Holocaust survivors, and what that did to him as a person. My class was an academic writing class, but the theme was "Inheritance," which worked really nicely with these books.

Also, on a side note, has anyone read In the Shadow of No Towers by him? It's a huge boardbook, meant for adults, and the pages are so rich with symbolism and artwork and text it's crazy.

I started this tonight, and I really like it so far. The artwork is beautiful, even though I expected something other than pen & ink sketchy drawings.

I'm only 96 pages into the first book, but I agree with Tahleen. Spiegelman's own struggles relating to his parents definitely add a humanity to the story. It's almost as if it was unreal to him, just a good story, until he started actually writing it down for others to read.

It's almost as if it was unreal to him, just a good story, until he started actually writing it down for others to read.

I think that is exactly what he is trying to convey, that even he, the child of survivors, looked at the Holocaust as something in the past and not really relevant. Once he was really faced with details, realities, and the long reaching effects it has obviously had on his father and step-mother, he views it differently. I think he is hoping to help everyone view it differently by demonstaring his "enlightenment".

Fiona wrote: "Horray, the library has it so I have reserved it. "

mine does too, I can't believe it!

I am really, really looking forward to discussing this with you guys. Becky is reading it now, so think of all the lovely chats we can have :)

ooo...better stay home from work then.

we should get some kind of special reward (free books) from authors for the free shameless plugging we give them. *cough*readGracelingandHungerGames*cough*

Seriously, do you think authors ever do pop into forums like this ang get a nice ego boost. (or not) I mean, look how many groups are devoted to one author. That must feel nice, right?

I would think so. If I was an author I know I'd be desperate for attention :) we need to get some pull in the author community! lol...like (G)Emma saying she'll see about asking John Green (via You Tube I think) to discuss Looking for Alaska with everyone.

Authors SHOULD be willing to discuss things like that with us, GR is a pretty large community.

or maybe I'm just totally biased since I love us :)

I love us too, so bias away!

I would a new, unestablished author would be more willing to mingle with the "commoners". LOL

So... I finished this tonight. I didn't write my usual long blabby review, lol... Just a short one, but I think it's sufficient.

I really loved all of the layers in the story that are there without effort. I mean, in such a simple format, Spiegelman examines SO MANY different things that have been caused by one event. I'm amazed. I wonder if it was intentional, or if he just wrote/drew what he felt and it just happened that way?

I think it must have been intentional. I think he took into consideration the audience he was looking to capture. He really was hoping to make people aware, and had he beaten us over the head with details, he would have lost a lot of people. It's just such a hard subject to think about.

I think his style was brilliant. It has worked time and time again. In Jaws, the shark is so much scarier because we are given bare bones and then left to imagine the details. Blair Witch Project and countless others.

Art's dad throws remarks out, and we are forced to stop and imagine just what he is implying, or leaving out. We simply can not help doing so. I think his neuroses served the same purpose. He really sufferred from them, but how much more did it drive home, how hungry they were, to see him actually try to return opened groceries. I think the grocer's kindness in humoring him was telling as well. Not everyone HAS forgotten. There is still human kindness.

I think you're probably right. But I also half wish that it was unintentional, that his portrayal of his father and his relationship with his father is like a snapshot with no forethought given to how others will see it, and just let it be what it is.

Well, you never know, it might have began that way, but I do think he must have written this painstakingly, as is indicated in the second volume. I think it was too painful and intense a subject for him to just pour out such a magnificent work on impulse almost.

No, I don't mean impulsively, just HONESTLY. I just mean that to me it didn't feel like it was painstakingly planned out. I think that is why he showed the difficulty that he had with writing it: perhaps in the end he just let the story tell itself rather than trying to force it into a different mold.

I'm probably explaining this badly. :(

I think it just might be me not paying close enough attention haha. But I guess it could just go to show how great a job he did, if it SEEMED to be not planned out and it was.

Becky, I think you are right, in that as his father was telling him he story, all the extraneous details showed up he had not imagined or planned on. As he was going over his notes, listening to the tapes, etc. I think he began to realize this was not just a story of what happened during the Holocaust, but what led to it, and the far, far reaching effects it had on his parents, their neighbors, friends, and eventually himself, after the fact.

I think he got all that information unplanned, but as he struggled with the story and translating it to words and pictures on page, realized the impact was so much more than the actual Holocaust. In that way, you would be right. He didn't start the process with that in mind, but was unable to finish the story in any other way.

Many times during their "talks" he has to steer his father back to the actual events of the camps, but later, he must have realized that all those little detours and tangents WERE part of the story. He couldn't convey the actual truth of the Holocaust without them.

Yes. Exactly. Thank you Kandice.

I agree with both Becky and Kandice. I finished reading these books this weekend, and I wish I had discovered them sooner. I had heard so many great things about them through this group that I bought them. (My brother-in-law works at a middle school, and brings home book orders for me. I got both for $10 :) Super happy dance...)

Anyway, I did leave a comment on the other thread as well, but wanted to comment here as well, because I thought they were so amazing.

The relationship between Art and his father made me sad. It seems like, for the longest time, Art only sees his father as a bitter/crazy old man who it's uncomfortable to spend much time with. While I can definitely see why it might be hard to spend a lot of time with his dad, it breaks my heart a little.

I loved that Spiegleman included the times he was talking to his father about his experiences in the Holocaust. I've never read a book about the Holocaust like this before. Although the father's tale alone is heart-breaking, deeply moving and intense, I felt like I received a whole new insight into the characters portrayed, because I was able to see the interactions between them in the current day, and I was able to see how the Holocaust was still affecting people.

These are definitely books I'm going to be rereading in the future, and I can easily see myself sharing these with my children in later years.