Casual Readers discussion

Diane and I will be reading Ulysses over the next couple of months. If anyone would like to participate, the book is available in several different formats at the following website:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4300

I've found a couple of resources for Ulysses:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Annotati...


http://ulyssesseen.com/landing/annota...

7%, I was hoping that I would have something really brilliant to say by my now.

Haha, me too, but there's a long way to go.

I have a really good audiobook version of Ulysses. I'm thinking it'll be a big help to me since it has different speakers for the narrator and each of the characters.

Just the opening scene is tough enough. There is the narrator's lines, what Buck is saying, what Stephen is saying, what Buck is thinking, and what Stephen is thinking. I probably wouldn't be able to follow this at all without both the book and the audiobook.

How could I forget the Spark Notes? I'll probably be referring to these after each section.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/ulysses/

Chuck wrote: "How could I forget the Spark Notes? I'll probably be referring to these after each section.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/ulysses/"

The Spark Notes are going to be invaluable! If it's okay, I might poke my head in here every once in a while. I'd love to see what you folks think of this book.

Oh wow, I would LOVE to join you guys, but my plate is overflowing as it is..

Chuck wrote: "Diane and I will be reading Ulysses over the next couple of months. If anyone would like to participate, the book is available in several different formats at the following website:

http://www.gut..."

Chuck - thank you so much for helping to get some discussion going under the buddy reads! I hope you guys enjoy and I will check in every day or so to read your comments.

My daughter asked what the book was about, and I have no idea.

Diane wrote: "My daughter asked what the book was about, and I have no idea."

LOL, good question!

It will probably be tomorrow before I can direct my full attention to this. I have about 200 pages left of an 800 page book that I'd like to finish tonight but then I'll be all over this.

Rick wrote: "Chuck wrote: "How could I forget the Spark Notes? I'll probably be referring to these after each section.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/ulysses/"

The Spark Notes are going to be invaluable! If it..."

Yeah, that would be great.

Cindy wrote: "Chuck wrote: "Diane and I will be reading Ulysses over the next couple of months. If anyone would like to participate, the book is available in several different formats at the following website:

..."

Thank you for starting the group, Cindy!

You are welcome Chuck! Thanks for becoming a valued member of the group!

When this is finished I guess I will be the best friend you ever had.

Diane wrote: "When this is finished I guess I will be the best friend you ever had."

LOL! You know it! hahahahaha!

I'm reading through Telemachus one last time before moving on. This is probably the tenth time I've read it. This is pretty tough. Without the audiobook I don't believe I would know who was saying what.

I just finished Telemachus and then read the Spark Notes. This is a bigger endeavor that I even imagined. I mean, I'm wondering if I am supposed to have read Hamlet, he Odyssey, and Joyce's other works before reading this? Apparently Stepehen is a character in an earlier Joyce novel and this is taking place a few years later. There is A LOT here! This really is going to take a while.

Nestor was a lot easier FWIW.

Chuck wrote: "I just finished Telemachus and then read the Spark Notes. This is a bigger endeavor that I even imagined. I mean, I'm wondering if I am supposed to have read Hamlet, he Odyssey, and Joyce's other w..."

Stephen Dedalus is carried over from 'Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, I think. This is very self-contained, though, and I had never read 'Portrait' before. I read somewhere that many of Joyce's writing peers found this book to be overwhelming. I kind of look at it as the Mount Everest of twentieth century literature. There is just so much in this near impossible work to conquer, that you need help to do it. In this case, instead of supplemental oxygen, it's cliff notes or some other reading guide to help find the traps. Did I go to far with that analogy?

Rick wrote: "Chuck wrote: "I just finished Telemachus and then read the Spark Notes. This is a bigger endeavor that I even imagined. I mean, I'm wondering if I am supposed to have read Hamlet, he Odyssey, and J..."

Thanks Rick. That sounds like a fine analogy to me.

Diane are you having much trouble figuring out who says what? The audiobook I have is like a play: It has different voices and stuff for each character. I really wish you could hear it.

I think the hardest thing to follow is Stephen's introspections. It will go right from what the narrator is saying into Stephen's mind and back out again and all over the place.

Mr. Deasy is a real piece of work.

I think it's great that you guys are keeping this discussion so active! I am following the discussion out of curiosity. I may break down one day and actually read this one in an attempt to stimulate the mind a bit :)

I won't give up. It could turn into just my introspections but I'll be posting, lol.

I did not like Joyce on college and I do not like him much better now. I think for a book to be a classic there should be something solid to wrap my thoughts around. I am a good reader and find this difficult to read, and I think that is very sad. If I am having problems, most of the world not get through this. So far I feel like someone made a decision to make this a classic and that is it, no sense involved. So far I feel like I am hearing the ravings of a mad man, and not a genius. Sorry, Chuck. I am not sure the audio version would help.

Diane wrote: "So far I feel like I am hearing the ravings of a mad man, and not a genius. "

I read a line last night that made me suspect Stephen is nuts, lol. But that's my own theory, lol!

Diane wrote: "
Sorry, Chuck. I am not sure the audio version would help. "

Well, if you say so. I know I would be having problems without it.

Here it is. It made me laugh really good. I could be as crazy as I think Stephen is, though. This Stephen basically talking to himself:

Reading two pages apiece of seven books every night, eh? I was young. You bowed to yourself in the mirror, stepping forward to applause earnestly, striking face. Hurray for the Goddamned idiot! Hray! No-one saw: tell no-one. Books you were going to write with letters for titles. Have you read his F? O yes, but I prefer Q. Yes, but W is wonderful. O yes, W. Remember your epiphanies written on green oval leaves, deeply deep, copies to be sent if you died to all the great libraries of the world, including Alexandria?

Hey Diane, I'm not sure where you're having trouble, but I know where I would be having trouble if I didn't hear different voices for the respective lines. I've noticed following along with the text though, that a lot of the things that are spoken out loud begin with an em dash. The stuff in between is the "narrator" and introspection, FWIW.

Here is an example of what I mean and what I'm hearing. And it gets way more complicated than this. This is just a quick example:

[Narrator:]Stale smoky air hung in the study with the smell of drab abraded leather of its chairs. [Stephen thinks:] As on the first day he bargained with me here. As it was in the beginning, is now. On the sideboard the tray of Stuart coins, base treasure of a bog: and ever shall be. And snug in their spooncase of purple plush, faded, the twelve apostles having preached to all the gentiles: world without end.
[Narrator:]
A hasty step over the stone porch and in the corridor. Blowing out his rare moustache Mr Deasy halted at the table.
[Mr. Deasy says]
—First, our little financial settlement, [Narrator:] he said.

He brought out of his coat a pocketbook bound by a leather thong. It slapped open and he took from it two notes, one of joined halves, and laid them carefully on the table.
[Mr. Deasy says]
—Two,[Narrator:] he said, strapping and stowing his pocketbook away.
[Stephen Thinks]
And now his strongroom for the gold. [Narrator:] Stephen's embarrassed hand moved over the shells heaped in the cold stone mortar: whelks and money cowries and leopard shells: [Stephen thinks:]and this, whorled as an emir's turban, and this, the scallop of saint James. An old pilgrim's hoard, dead treasure, hollow shells.
[Narrator:]
A sovereign fell, bright and new, on the soft pile of the tablecloth.
[Mr. Deasy says]
—Three, [Narrator:]Mr Deasy said, turning his little savingsbox about in his hand. [Mr. Deasy says]These are handy things to have. See. This is for sovereigns. This is for shillings. Sixpences, halfcrowns. And here crowns. See.
[Narrator:]
He shot from it two crowns and two shillings.
[Mr. Deasy says]
—Three twelve,[Narrator:] he said. [Mr. Deasy says]I think you'll find that's right.
[Stephen says]
—Thank you, sir,[Narrator:] Stephen said, gathering the money together with shy haste and putting it all in a pocket of his trousers.
[Mr Deasy says]
—No thanks at all, [narrator]Mr Deasy said. [Mr Deasy says]You have earned it.
[narrator]
Stephen's hand, free again, went back to the hollow shells.[Stephen thinks:] Symbols too of beauty and of power. A lump in my pocket: symbols soiled by greed and misery.
[Mr. Deasy says]
—Don't carry it like that,[narrator] Mr Deasy said. [Mr. Deasy says]You'll pull it out somewhere and lose it. You just buy one of these machines. You'll find them very handy.
[Stephen thinks:]
Answer something.
[Stephen says]
—Mine would be often empty, Stephen said.
[Stephen thinks:]
The same room and hour, the same wisdom: and I the same. Three times now. Three nooses round me here. Well? I can break them in this instant if I will.
[Mr. Deasy says]
—Because you don't save,[Narrator:] Mr Deasy said, pointing his finger. [Mr. Deasy says] You don't know yet what money is. Money is power. When you have lived as long as I have. I know, I know. If youth but knew. But what does Shakespeare say? Put but money in thy purse.
[Stephen says]
—Iago, [narrator:] Stephen murmured.
[narrator:]
He lifted his gaze from the idle shells to the old man's stare.
[Mr. Deasy says]
—He knew what money was,[narrator:] Mr Deasy said.

I found it became more difficult as the story progress', to follow what is internal dialog, and what is actually a reflection of what is happening. There is also sudden shifts from memories to disjointed internal rambling. Like I said, when even Joyce's peers spoke of difficulty following this, and his strange manner of narrative...I didn't feel so bad wading my way through!

A recurrent theme is that of Catholic church bashing I guess this surprises me.

Rick wrote: "I found it became more difficult as the story progress', to follow what is internal dialog, and what is actually a reflection of what is happening. There is also sudden shifts from memories to disj..."
Yeah, that's only from the second chapter, which is very simple compared to other stuff. But it shows how it will go straight from the narrator into Stephen's thoughts. And how a lot of the conversation that is spoken aloud begins with an em dash. I thought it could serve to signal the reader that it has switched tracks.

Diane wrote: "A recurrent theme is that of Catholic church bashing I guess this surprises me."

How about the antisemitic stuff, or is that just me?

This story is just full of fun quotes too. I'm going to have fun with this story for the rest of my life.

Something that is also cool about the audiobook is that it puts melodies to the songs. I don't know how they decided to go about that but it's fun. I'm thinking they're probably old Irish melodies or something.

Also, my Spanish and French isn't as strong as I would like it to be, and I never tried very hard to learn Italian (it looked at lot like Spanish to me) so I'm using translate.google.com to double check a lot of that stuff.

I started Ulysses last March on a trip to Ireland and wish I could pick it up now to join you guys. I would love to read along with someone. I have way too much going on now though including reading a multitude of books at once.

Agreed. antisemitic. But Catholic in Ireland is what it is all about. even to this day. Not Italian, Latin. Most of it from the old Catholic Latin Mass. I am a cradle Catholic and grew up with the Latin so understand most of it. I also took Latin in high school.

Diane wrote: "Agreed. antisemitic. But Catholic in Ireland is what it is all about. even to this day. Not Italian, Latin. Most of it from the old Catholic Latin Mass. I am a cradle Catholic and grew up with the ..."

I knew there was Latin in there but I thought there was some Italian too because I'm able to work quite a bit of it out from my knowledge of Spanish (which is why I didn't try very hard to learn Italian). I guess all three of them would be similar based on the locale.

Diane, I think you are going to leave me in the dust. I was just going to try to get to 20% this week. I bet you are already there though, eh?

I feel so guilty. I just did not feel like reading Ulysses

Don't feel bad at all, Diane. You are way of ahead of me, I bet. Heck, I'm re-reading Proteus right now.

An excerpt:

"When one reads these strange pages of one long gone one feels that one is at one with one who once..."

I'm keeping track of the different languages in Ulysses now. So far:

English (including middle English)
Latin
Greek (several different dialects)
German
French
Italian
Spanish


Unbelievable! There is no way I could read this without help.

Chuck,

I can't remember if you've already posted this, but which study guide, etc. are you recommending for Ulysses? I do want something to help me with it when I do have the time to go back to it.

Thanks.

Actually, I'm looking for one right now. This morning I've been relying on the links I posted above very heavily to understand Proteus:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Annotati...

&
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/ulysses...


They're online and free, but switching between apps gets old fast. I wish I did know of a really good guide. I'm sure I will find one eventually, I hope. I'll certainly post it when I do. However, I've also read that a person shouldn't get all bogged down in that stuff too much and should just focus on the actual story and plot and whatnot. Check out this blog: http://biblioklept.org/2010/06/16/how...
I want to just read it through and gleam whatever I can from it but it's so against my nature to read past words I don't understand.

Michelle wrote: "Chuck,

I can't remember if you've already posted this, but which study guide, etc. are you recommending for Ulysses? I do want something to help me with it when I do have the time to go back to it..."

Michelle, I used the Cliff Notes and was pretty happy with those. They not only help you with what's happening, at the present time, it also tells you where that section fits into The Odyssey. They also had two other things going for them. First, a really handy list of the characters and their relationship to each other, and second, it does a pretty good job of breaking the story down into sections. I really liked that since apparently Joyce forgot about chapters :P

Interesting blog Chuck. I'm sure it will be quite helpful to those of you reading this book.

Rick wrote: Michelle, I used the Cliff Notes and was pretty happy with those. They not only help you with what's happening, at the present time, it also tells you where that section fits into The Odyssey. They also had two other things going for them. First, a really handy list of the characters and their relationship to each other, and second, it does a pretty good job of breaking the story down into sections. I really liked that since apparently Joyce forgot about chapters :P "

My understanding is that the original text was broken up into three parts, and that subsequent editions have 18 chapters/episodes that are titled based off the Odyssey. The audiobook I have is split up by the Homeric titles.

Bloom's version of the ABC Song:

Ahbeesee defeegee kelomen opeecue rustyouvee doubleyou

I'm lagging pretty hard on Ulysses. I'm at 10%.

I already like Bloom. He's a cat lover.