Speaker Geeks! discussion

The U.S. was founded with the intention of being a Christian country. I personally am glad they are in there, but that is because I am a Christian.

Lia wrote: "We don't have a pledge of allegiance, but I agree with Elaney, if the US was founded with the intention of being a Christian country, then it's no surprise that it's the pledge of allegiance should..."

Well said , Lia

I am in agreement with Elevetha. You don't just change history, the foundation of a country, just because some aren't in agreement with it. No one is going to be in agreement with everything. Just because we have changed some of the Constitution justifies us changing it further? No. We have freedom of religion but taking God out of our Pledge, off our currency is going too far. It was founded on God and I think it has been doing well up until said point.

Thank you.

Did you know that some schools have stopped saying the Pledge of Allegiance because for goodness's sake, you can't mention God in schools. You can't mix the two.

Elaney wrote: "The U.S. was founded with the intention of being a Christian country. I personally am glad they are in there, but that is because I am a Christian."

Same

T.J. wrote: "I am in agreement with Elevetha. You don't just change history, the foundation of a country, just because some aren't in agreement with it. No one is going to be in agreement with everything. Just ..."

I agree

They are trying to re-write the pledge of allegiance, and all of the textbooks that mention God.

I think I would be.

I am generally okay when people talk about their religions.

I think that, even as a non-Christian, I wouldn't be offended about it and I'd like to think that I would realize that that it is the principles and foundation of what this country, my country, was founded on.

Elevetha wrote: "I think that, even as a non-Christian, I wouldn't be offended about it and I'd like to think that I would realize that that it is the principles and foundation of what this country, my country, was..."

Nicely said.

Under God is an essential part of the pledge because America is a country that is under the enormous blessing of God. Think about it: America won the Revolution, slavery was taken care of, it is a free country, we have exceptional hospitals, our country is very wealthy, nearly everyone is patriotic, we have an exceptional military, nearly everyone has running water, food, technology, etc............America is incredibly blessed by God. And we are also under an incredible debt to Him. So in many ways, America is a nation under God and His name is necessary to be in our pledge, on our money, and our patriotic songs.

God bless America.

Amen! :)

This is what our nation was founded on. We became a nation for freedom of belief from England. That isn't all, but that was an important aspect. Anyway...

That is part of our "heritage" as a country. Our background. Our history. It is important that we realize that even though we have a diverse population of religions in America, that is how our founding fathers invisioned the new country.

God also doesn't have to be the Christian depiction. According to dictionary.com, this is what "God" is.

" the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe."

That could be whatever you would like to make of it. A lot of religions have a "leader," which is what the pladge is referring to. A leader is watching over us as a nation.

Elevetha wrote: "H99 wrote: "@Elevetha- Okay, what's really irking me here is that "under God" wasn't in the original pledge. The person who wrote the original version didn't include it. I see no reason for it to h..."


Yes it was a good thing. Have you noticed that when you say you're a Christian, people are dismayed and wary of you? If someone says they're a Muslim, everyone says "Good for you!". Or if you say you're a Mormon, everyone says "That's great!". But if you say you're a Christian everyone stays silent or tells you to keep it to yourself. If someone announce that they are gay, people say how brave they are for telling it to others and congratulate them. If you announce that you are a Christian, people tell you to keep it to yourself. What is up with that?

I think Under God needs to be in there, and people need to learn to respect that this is what this nation was founded on. You can't just rewrite history by taking out everything about God from textbooks. You can't just rewrite the Pledge of Allegiance.

Elaney wrote: "Yes it was a good thing. Have you noticed that when you say you're a Christian, people are dismayed and wary of you? If someone says they're a Muslim, everyone says "Good for you!". Or if you say you're a Mormon, everyone says "That's great!". But if you say you're a Christian everyone stays silent or tells you to keep it to yourself."

One harsh word for you, Elaney. Bull****. But let me tell you a story.

My mother is Native American. She does not practice any form of Christianity. For a long time, she hid this fact, and everyone in our community just assumed she was. Then one day, word leaked that she wasn't. She was ignored during Little League events, everyone turned down our invitations, and they pretended we didn't exist. At the end of the school year, my brother's best friend held a pool party. There were almost thirty kids there, splashing and swimming and having a good time. We, however, had no idea this was going on. We found out that they had a party through Facebook photos. People here are willing to alienate people's children because of their parents' religion.

Also, as has been pointed out, America was not at all founded on Christian principles. Democracy is in no way a Christian ideal- all of the Christian nations at the time were monarchies. Actually, until America, there was never a Christian majority democracy. Democracy was invented and perfected by pagan Greeks and Romans. The separation of church and State was most definitely not a Christian belief, nor was freedom of speech. Some founding fathers were even not true Christians- Thomas Paine and Benjamin Franklin were Deists, George Washington refused Communion, and even Thomas Jefferson adhered to a sort of Christian-influenced Deism.

I, for one, oppose the words "under God" in the pledge, because they weren't even part of the original version. They were added at the beginning of the Cold War as a sort of "screw you" to the Soviet Union, which was officially atheist. The addition isn't to honour anyone's heritage, it's just a pointless bit of religious wording thrown in to anger some Russians.

One question: Why were you excluded because you weren't a Christian? I have plenty of friends who aren't Christians. It doesn't mean that they're different from my Christian friends.

I understand that, but why? Where I live, you almost get excluded if you ARE a Christian.

Where do you live, Berkeley? In my experience, it's minorities who tend to be excluded more. It's not always as extreme as my example, but the only place where I've ever felt that everyone is treated normally is Washington.

Silicon Valley. My mom and dad grew up in Ohio and were constantly teased because they were the only Asians.

Silicon Valley? Really? Hmm.

Jake wrote: "Silicon Valley? Really? Hmm."

Yeah, why?

Jake wrote: "Elaney wrote: "Yes it was a good thing. Have you noticed that when you say you're a Christian, people are dismayed and wary of you? If someone says they're a Muslim, everyone says "Good for you!". ..."

I think that is more of a problem with your friends, and not Christians in general. There are plenty of Christians who respect other's beliefs.

Jake wrote: "Elaney wrote: "Yes it was a good thing. Have you noticed that when you say you're a Christian, people are dismayed and wary of you? If someone says they're a Muslim, everyone says "Good for you!". ..."

I find when I say the words "under God" in the pledge that I am speaking about how our nation was (mostly) founded under God's control and almighty power. And I am very sorry that that is how people in your community treat your mom, but as Billy said, not all Christians are like that. In fact, Christians are commanded to "Love your neighbor as yourself," in Mark 12:31 and are told that, "There is no commandment greater than these." Therefore, they aren't really living out their religion.

Agreed

I've been saying the pledge since Kindergarten and I never once thought about what the words meant, I just thought it was fun. It wasn't until maybe last year I realized that they were saying the nation was formed under God, suggesting God is real and such. I don't expect America to call the schools and say, "Okay, this is a country with no one religion. You may get rid of the 'under God' bit," and I don't mind very much. The pledge continues to have no meaning to me.

@Billy: It's not our friends, it's the whole neighbourhood. And I know there are respectful, kind Christians, I know a few, that wasn't my point. I was saying that the whole country isn't like Elaney's statement.

@Marie: That's the sad thing. They're being complete hypocrites.

@Jake Well that is very sad. I'm sorry that the Christians in your neighborhood aren't treating your family as Christians should.

Kaylee wrote: I feel it should be removed, for the sake of basic Constitutional rights.

For the sake of the basic Constitutional rights, I should be able to say "Under God" since I fully believe in God and I have freedom of religion and freedom of speech which means I get to say it.

Why do you have to remove "Under God" for the nonbelievers when plenty of people believe in God. Why can't the nonbelievers just not say "Under God?"

I understand if you want to get rid of it for others who don't believe in God, but what about the people who do? Why should they be stripped of something that others don't believe in?

Taking the "Under God" out for nonbelievers is like saying no one can eat peanuts because these people are alligic.

Like most things I think it should just be optional. For people who don't want to say it use another phrase with the same number of syllables to keep the pacing. It could all be very simple.

I completely agree Katelyn. I like your analogy at the end.

Kate wrote: "Katelyn♬✞ wrote: "Kaylee wrote: I feel it should be removed, for the sake of basic Constitutional rights.

For the sake of the basic Constitutional rights, I should be able to say "Under God" since..."

Ha ha okay, that makes sense.
(Though I think by that reasoning, the pledge might also include an almond and a walnut.)

This just made me think of another debate idea. Hmm.

Yeah, it's unfortunate ha.
(Though I'm allergic to most treenuts, so that would work great for me.)

Truthfully, even if I did believe in God, the pledge would still be as meaningless to me as it is now. The kids at my school don't even bother, whether they believe in God or not.

@H99 That's a good philosophy.

My first period is gym, so all four classes gather in the Dance Studio and a small TV plays the morning announcements. I don't know about the other classes, but the kids I see don't watch the morning announcements at all. Half of them don't even come into the Dance Studio until the announcements are nearly over.

It's too melodramatic...

I've never had to do anything like this, I see it up to the person saying it, it is down to their beliefs.

Just wondering, but judging from the comments, are most of you American?

I am, yes.

Well I have enough time to check notifications on my phone of new comments, but not enough time to like actively debate or be in some serious online discussions....

Yes, I am American.
Sorry, I don't pay enough attention to notice who is and who isn't. But I'm pretty sure the majority of us are, except for maybe Liane...?

Aaah okay... Lia's in the Philippines? Cool! I'm Filipino myself but I moved out of the country 2-3 years ago :)

My plans in life will hopefully lead elsewhere. I'd love to see different parts of the world.

I don't think it should be in there, because a whole lot of people in America don't beleive in any form of god, myself included.

Jason wrote: "I don't think it should be in there, because a whole lot of people in America don't beleive in any form of god, myself included."

Yeah, and those who don't believe in God but other people/things/stuff don't get to say, "Under Buddha", do they?

Lol, no they don't :)

If zombies chase us, can I use you as my human shield before you trip me?

Um, no. :)

I always wondered though--y'know how every president except one has been sworn in on a bible? How would people react nowadays if, say, I was about to be sworn in as president and I didn't put my hand on a bible? (Not that I have any desire of running for president, but whatever ;)