12 Books - Author Led Business Book Group discussion

This is the official discussion for our July book.

Welcome everyone! I'm looking forward to joining you on this journey. Make sure you visit www.fredfactor.com for free resources.

I have to admit that I did not read the Fred Factor, but the first chapter of Fred 2.0 has grabbed my attention. Looking forward to the rest of the book.

Mark wrote: "Welcome everyone! I'm looking forward to joining you on this journey. Make sure you visit www.fredfactor.com for free resources."

Thanks for posting the link.

You can read Fred 2.0 as a stand alone book, before or after The Fred Factor but obviously you'll benefit most if you read Fred Factor first. Fred 2.0 is not an update but all new material that builds on the philosophy by going deeper.

I just started reading this book and I am sure we are all going to have boat load of our own Fred stories. I got few so I will start with one that happened recently.

I was at a Dunkin Donuts and I ordered a small coffee. Dunkin Donuts uses paper cups for small sized-coffee and Styrofoam cups for bigger than small. I don't know why but I think they want you get burned so next time you don't order small size and I think it works since I rarely ever see anyone order small sized coffee.

After I received my cup, I asked the young woman working on why Dunkin Donuts uses paper cups for small coffee. She said I have also asked that same question myself, but I don't know why and immediately put another empty cup underneath the hot one without my asking.

She solved my problem and I was happy. At other places I always have to ask for an empty cup.

Freds are people who don't get up each day so they can say at the end of the day, "another day, another dollar," but how many people they can inspire not by doing anything extraordinary but just by serving.

I will share a good one about Trudy from Costco next time.

Thanks for the story, Jay!

I, too, have not read the Fred Factor, but I'm finding that what I've read so far in Fred 2.0 has me thinking more on a daily basis of how can I operate from a stand point of excellence in every area of my life. I'm looking forward to further comments and discussion.

The Fred Factor is the entry level course; Fred 2.0 is the advanced course. :-)

Mark,

Why are Freds and Fredericas the exceptions? You may have answered this later in the book but do you think it has to do with the way employees are measured at work for performance?

I think Peter Drucker said that you can only improve what you measure. It is hard to measure what Freds do since there are really no real good metrics for kindness and humanity and if you try to measure it then it would come across as contrived.

I know Zappos is an example everyone talks about. Tony Hsieh, CEO, instead of measuring how many calls their customer reps handle within a certain time, they stopped measuring that and encouraged their reps to spend as mush time with the customers on the phone.

It worked since they are able to serve their customers much better. Zappos kept it metrics so simple that it can't be games; you have to be genuinely customer centric.

Do you think emphasis on performance measurements is one of the main reason we don't see too many Freds in companies?

Is Zappos a good example of a "Fred" like culture? Thanks.

I haven't gotten my copy of Fred 2.0, but I did read The Fred Factor back in the day. The stories stuck with me. to slightly answer Jay, we don't see too many Freds and Frederics because just as soon as management and immediate supervisors see Fred behavior, they punish under the claim of misusing company resources or taking too long with the customer. I'm not sure how performance measurements fit in, but too often the focus is giving the customer exactly the same treatment as all other customers. Fred behavior is individualist, depending on the needs of the different customers. Maybe as we get deeper into niche marketing, more Fred behavior will show up and prove its' value to the bottom line.

Susan and Jay, you both make good points. It is probably a combination of nurture and nature...in Fred 2.0, I point out that Fred didn't have parents who set a positive example. He reacted to their negativity to become who he is today. I am a big fan of Zappos (they use The Fred Factor and Fish in their orientation training), and think that leadership recognizes, encourages, rewards and provides resources to be "Fred-like."

I agree in thinking that performance metrics are important to encourage Fred like behavior but it is generally very difficult to figure out how to formulate the metrics that truly encourage and measure that behavior.

Mark you made a great statement with,
"There are really no good metrics for kindness and humanity" and asked a good question, "Is Zappos a good example of a 'Fred' like culture?" There are many work places where culture is just not a priority and the person who brings kindness and humanity to the table is quickly chewed up and spit out of the organization. The Fred-like culture at Zappos is exactly what sets it apart from other businesses and organizations. I believe Fred was able to thrive in his environment because he had complete control by working outside of an "office" situation and could adapt as he saw fit.

Denise,

You make a very good point about Fred that got me thinking.

Fred is highly valued outside but not much inside, as pointed out in the book that USPS never asked him to teach others on his method of success. He should have been a case study used by USPS, not wait to read about it from the Fred books. This is commonly referred to as the "Normalization of Deviance." It is a culture that has set in. I wonder if USPS hands out Fred books to its employees.

Fred's metrics, according to USPS, was to deliver the mail. As long as he did that, they did not care how he did it, provided there were no screw-ups or complaints.

Fred is your quintessential 80/20 man. He did 80% by the book so he would not get reprimanded or, worse, fired, but he reinvented the 20% so he was not just another postman, but Fred. That's his genius or uniqueness. He redefined the job.

The loss to USPS was not getting Fred to reinvent the 80%. Fred was not political, so he chose to reinvent the part of the job that he controlled.

Now if Fred had taken it to the next level, then he would have tried to rise through the ranks at USPS and make these changes throughout the organization. This is fraught with all kinds of risk and not sure if he would have been happy making lot of compromises along the way. I think he would have gotten frustrated and probably quit USPS. Here is something to think about: What could have Fred have done to make wider changes at USPS?

I worked at USPS for many, many years. That organization is run very much by an old school book, mainly because of the high number of NCO veterans it has hired. It is a very rigid, formulistic, rule based institution. Fred could have tried to rise up to spread his ideas, but he would not have gotten very far. Only the lowly workers are protected by a union. Just as soon as Fred transferred into management, he would have been fired for rocking the boat. It is much easier for the Postal Service to fire managers and supervisors than carriers and clerks.
The USPS did not and will not hand out The Fred Factor. Their current workplace stance is automate as much as is possible, and outsource whatever they can. Talk about trying to destroy from within. That was a large part of my accepting the USPS buyout this year and retire.
Unless you can get buyin from upper management, you will not see Fred behavior on the part of the workforce. Fred behavior is part of the feeling of ownership of work and success that employees want and need to fulfill their higher needs. It only impacts the bottom line in employee retention and customer loyalty, two things I would think are very important but I don't see at the corporate level. Otherwise, how do you explain the lack of clerks at the retail level and the general dustiness of places of business? You are more likely to find Fred behavior in small businesses, from small business people, who see cause and effect immediately.
I would hope that Fred behavior could be introduced in large companies and institutions, but it is going to have to be proven a money maker. I think that is where you would have to put your metric measurements. Is the division or the store unit making more money with Fred behavior in place or not?

As Tom Peters pointed out many years ago, you can quantify anything.
As a customer, on a scale of 1 to 10 to evaluate their overall experience and you've can get a handle on whether or not service (and other factor of the experience) are improving. There's a boatload of research about how increasing service levels affect the bottom line (start with Frederick Reichheld). The downside is when it costs too much to deliver, hence my emphasis on replacing money with imagination and getting employees to focus on what they can do (and there is much) to improve service without necessarily spending money to do it. USPS has proven that their book doesn't work in general. And now they are trying to use PR to get support while they reduce service levels and charge more. That is a very bad strategy.

I use the Fred factor as a resource for teaching my college course on management to graduate students. So many students want the products of hard work and success but fail to make the connection between their attitude and behavior and its impact on success. They want to start their careers at the top without paying their dues. The crazy thing is they get so hung up on the money they forget to enjoy the experience of life and end up miserable. Fred the postman is my hero because he does a job that many people would say is boring and requires little skill and he performs in a way that positively impacts his community. Serving others in the only pathway to fulfillment. We need more Freds and fewer freeloaders.

Greg wrote: "I use the Fred factor as a resource for teaching my college course on management to graduate students. So many students want the products of hard work and success but fail to make the connection be..."

Greg, this is an interesting connection. Talking about The Fred Factor as it relates to the entitlement in the emerging workforce. Maybe as I get further in the book this will come up... talking more about paying ones dues and learning that we earn everything we get by creating value for others and not ourselves.

A lot of threads in here about performance metrics and how to stimulate Fred like behavior but in my experience with supervising thousands of employees over the past 40 years...I think you are mssing the forest for the trees. Setting policies to stimulate good behavior is not really how leadership works. It also starts with the leader. If the leader has the right attitude and demeanor people will want to perform well. I really believe that far too many people try to create a policy manual instead of just acting like a leader.

I believe that to be a great boss and a good leader of others you have to master three skills. 1. How do you coach people to do what they don't already know how to do? 2. How do you command when you need to but stay out of the way when you need to? And 3. How do you create an environment in which your people can thrive?

Policies are important to the environment but proper coaching and commanding are equally important. Focusing on the policies causes you to forget the human connection component. A good leader knows when the policy should be ignored.

Greg wrote: "A lot of threads in here about performance metrics and how to stimulate Fred like behavior but in my experience with supervising thousands of employees over the past 40 years...I think you are mssi..."

Great thoughts, thanks Greg. A focus always doing the very best we can with the stewardship we have been given seems to be at the heart of the Fred Factor.

Fred 2.0 has a chapter for parents and educators entitled Fred, Jr. I am gratified by the number of educators, at every level, who teach these principles. The earlier they are learned, the more they will benefit both the learner and the greater community.

I read The Fred Factor and was taken by the example of Fred Shea and his profound influence accomplished by simple acts. Yet, as with so many things that are simple but not always easy, to consistently follow suit in my own business was short lived. To hear that Fred 2.0 was coming out was music to my ears and I have rediscovered in its first few pages what I needed as a reminder that Fred like service is not only a wise thing to do from a business perspective, it is the right thing to do from the human perspective. I look forward to engaging here in more discussion and in finishing the book. Thank you Mark Sanborn and thank you to all the Fred Sheas in the world.

Story of Trudy, someone who I think exemplifies Fred.

We all go to a box store like Costco to shop and we probably don't know a single person there since they do their job and we hardly ever get to talk to them and leave.

This was not the case with Trudy from Costco. She was an employee who worked at the entrance checking your Costco card or your receipt when you were leaving. Now I have been shopping at Costco for ten years but it is only Trudy I remember by name. And others too.

What made Trudy so special is that she always wore a unique head gear for the occasion of the day, such as Thanksgiving, Valentine's Day, Fourth of July, etc. I also think she made up when there was no special occasion to celebrate. For her there was always something to celebrate and she did it with her head gear. She would make these herself and wear it. Also she was very cheerful to everyone.

One day I said to myself I had to find out more about her and that's when she explained to me that it was her hobby and she also wanted to provide something special to patrons to make their shopping little bit memorable. She certainly did that for me as I would look forward to visiting Costco at the times she worked to see what head gear she would be wearing.

Unfortunately, Trudy retired recently. I still shop at Costco but it is not the same without her. I and many others miss seeing Trudy at Costco and I hope her well in her retirement life. I am sure whatever she is doing, she is still making people a little bit cheerful.

In a past year we ordered my son a toy Buzz Lightyear... the only toy he wanted at the time. We ordered it directly from the Disney online store. When it came in the mail we were very disappointed. The paint was scratched in a few places and the packaging was a little damaged. We thought it would be appropriate to send an email off with feedback to the Disney store. We were contacted and told that a new Buzz Lightyear had been shipped to us and that we should donate the first one to a local charity.

This is an example where we didn't deal with any person directly. I suspect it was the culture and policies of Disney that allowed this type of amazing service. One way or the other it earned our loyalty and it was inspiring.

Jacob,

Don't you think good services is also smart services?

If they have you pack it, go to the nearest UPS and ship it, you are already pissed. When they receive it, they also have to go through lot of process to get it to the vendor. It is much easier for them and you not to got through all the hassle and the cost that cost that would be incurred. It is easier for everyone for them to just send you a new one and you will forever be thankful since it is an exception rather than a rule. Also they solved your problem quickly.

BTW, this is one of the reason I shop at Costco. They have a very lenient return policy that I have only used for pants since they don't have fitting rooms.

Amazon is also very good with this.

This is really a great story, Jacob. I think it is this type of service that will result in repeat business, but it also builds Disney's brand as a company who cares about the community and the people it serves. I am inspired that they asked you to just donate the first one to charity and to share their products with those who might not otherwise be able to afford them.

Great point, Jay! Not only does this save time and hassle, but it keeps the customer happy. Having to return the product would have been an inconvenience to you (at no fault of your own) and would have resulted in their staff doing more work restocking the product. The likely truth is that they would have paid for return shipping, realized the product was damaged, and donated the product to charity themselves. However, the Fred at Disney saved the company the shipping cost and made sure they delivered great service to their customer AND to the community.

Also, thank you for sharing the story of Trudy. She sounds like a real joy and I am sure her actions resulted in many repeat customers for Costco.

We are glad to have you join us, Jary. Fred Shea is a dear friend and remarkable human being. His story has inspired leaders all over the world, and I am glad to hear that it is also having a positive impact on you.

In the book, Mark talks about being creative. The problem is that creativity is like a muscle that has to be worked on every day whether it is writing, reading, learning, etc. For many people this is very hard since they are so tired from their work that they stop thinking and feel safe in what they are doing.

Fred is a thinker. He is innovative in a way to provide good customer service. Lot of postmen can't do that or want to do that. They don't want to think beyond what they know to get their job done and earn their wages.

Gary Hamel, management consultant and author, talks about the pyramid of six human capabilities ( http://thehypertextual.com/2010/04/08...). Companies looked for the bottom three: diligence, obedience and intelligence. Hamel points out that these are commodities today with outsourcing and automation. What companies and individuals need today are capabilities such as passion, creativity and initiative.

Fred's value to customer is how well does the top three capabilities on the pyramid, but to the company, it is the bottom three capabilities that they value.

Jay you bring up a good point. As I've been reading the book I've been trying to think through how I can exemplify Fred like qualities in my own work. In some of the things I do that is really clear but in other aspects of my work its a little fuzzy. It does take creativity to pull it together and think more about how to serve people.

Jacob,

You get the Fred award for creating this book club and giving us an opportunity to read, learn and think. I think anytime you create something, you are exhibiting your creativity. It is not that easy.

While it might often be difficult to provide creative service to your customers, it is usually easier to provide this kind of service to your friends. Fred viewed all of the people he served as his friends, and I believe that is why he was able to continually develop creative ways to provide remarkable service.

Take for instance him holding my mail to avoid alerting thieves that I was away from home. That might not be the first action that comes to mind if you view someone as a customer, but when you see them as friends his approach becomes almost natural.

I appreciate how invested you are in this book, Jay. Struggle is part of the process but I am confident that you will find new ways to provide remarkable service in all aspect of your business. Fred cared about my mail more than I did. I challenge you to do the same for the people you serve within your industry.

And judos to you, Jacob, for creating this vehicle where we can all share and learn. I have learned from all of your comments, examples, and questions. Thank you all for allowing me to be a part of it.

Here is a short video in which I talk about my discussion with Fred regarding the comment I made up... Hope you enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=...

Mark,

It was a pleasure having you as the author this month. You not only write about Fred but practice it based on how you engaged with all of us and helping us focus on how we can be like Fred at what we do. You are a good man.

Thanks.

So far so good, this book is excellent and I'm almost finished with it. Great story, great ideas. Mark did a terrific job of writing it.

Wow, Ok you guys are going to get a giggle out of this. As I'm reading through the comments, I'm noticing Mark's comments throughout the thread and just had a lightbulb moment. Mark is the author. Sad to admit it's been a few months since I've participated in this book club, but I'm glad I'm back. Can't wait to join you all in further discussion online later this month.

Jay wrote: "Jacob,

You get the Fred award for creating this book club and giving us an opportunity to read, learn and think. I think anytime you create something, you are exhibiting your creativity. It is ..."

Amen.

Here is a blog I wrote about Paul the Waiter at Hilton San Diego who I think exemplifies a "Fred."

http://bit.ly/14zTTXD

Today I finished the chapter about Love & Compassion. I found this so refreshing. We need to be better as individuals and organizations about talking about love and compassion for individuals. We need a more open view of caring about others and serving them more openly.

Jay wrote: "Here is a blog I wrote about Paul the Waiter at Hilton San Diego who I think exemplifies a "Fred."

http://bit.ly/14zTTXD"
Thanks for the blog! I just shared in my social media network.

Jacob wrote: "Today I finished the chapter about Love & Compassion. I found this so refreshing. We need to be better as individuals and organizations about talking about love and compassion for individuals. We n..."

Glad you enjoyed. That is one of my favorite chapters.

Thanks Mark. It explains why that blog is the most viewed on my web site this week. Looking forward to the webinar on Monday.

Here is my review of this book.

http://bit.ly/1bGZSOb

Look forward to connecting with everyone on our webinar later this afternoon/evening. If you won't be able to attend but have any questions you would like me to present to Mark please email me or post them here!

Jacob,

I will try to attend but in case I can't can you ask this question to Mark:

We all are very competitive in everything we do, meaning we all want to win. Can you have a winning attitude while being a "Fred"? Are they mutually exclusive or they can both coexist? Thanks.

I enjoyed this book from start to finish, it was a great book to read.

I appreciate all the great feedback and interesting discussion around The Fred Factor. If you'd like to access my latest thinking, please follow my blog at www.marksanborn.com/blog or my various social media outlets (all found at the same website). If you liked The Fred Factor, I think you will enjoy Fred 2.0...it is not an update or revision but an entirely new book that builds on and expands The Fred Factor philosophy. Wishing you all continued success! Mark