His Dark Materials
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Dæmons
Helen and Daisy
Jun 30, 2013 08:48AM
Does anyone else think that a pine marten was wrong for Lyra? I thought an ermine might suit her better as it is the symbol of purity.
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Never thought much about it. Do you suppose that Pullman thought the pine marten WAS an ermine? If you Google pix them, they look like almost the same creature (ermine in summer coat, that is)
Wish I had a dæmon...and I wouldn't care what animal it was!
Wish I had a dæmon...and I wouldn't care what animal it was!
I don't think Pullman was confused between a pine marten and an ermine. Pullman actually seems to have thought about Lyra's dæmon very carefully and planned it out.
Pantalaimon is not a symbol of purity, seeing as Lyra's not really a symbol of purity. I think Pullman chose a pine marten because Pan was commonly an ermine in Lyra's youth. Like Helen and Daisy said, ermines are a symbol of purity. Once Lyra succumbed to temptation, she was no longer pure and needed a dæmon that was similar to the ermine, but not a symbol of purity. Pine martens are larger relatives of the pine marten, so they fit.
The change Lyra experiences, from innocent or pure to knowledgeable and tainted by that knowledge, is reflected in Pantalaimon's change from ermine to pine marten.
Pantalaimon is not a symbol of purity, seeing as Lyra's not really a symbol of purity. I think Pullman chose a pine marten because Pan was commonly an ermine in Lyra's youth. Like Helen and Daisy said, ermines are a symbol of purity. Once Lyra succumbed to temptation, she was no longer pure and needed a dæmon that was similar to the ermine, but not a symbol of purity. Pine martens are larger relatives of the pine marten, so they fit.
The change Lyra experiences, from innocent or pure to knowledgeable and tainted by that knowledge, is reflected in Pantalaimon's change from ermine to pine marten.
Helen and Daisy Harris
I don't think he mistook it either. I think that a pine marten was a good choice for Lyra, mischievous, fierce and clever.
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Helen and Daisy Harris
However, I hadn't thought of the temptation part. If she hadn't succumbed to temptation, perhaps Pan would have been an ermine as they are rather simi
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I created an account just for this topic- I have been thinking on this for 15 long years.
I wrote directly to Pullman back when I was in 7th grade (the very year that Amber Spyglass came out!). I was so completely infatuated with his world but bewildered as to Pantalaimon's form. I asked him WHY a pine marten, and when I got the return letter I was extremely excited and I read it. "I'm not sure why" was his answer.
I was perplexed and crestfallen, but always took it as Word of God from then on- "I'm not sure" is why he chose a pine marten.
I'm sure I'm not the only kid he wrote to in those years, and perhaps he was just trying to spur me into thinking about the symbolism more without being told directly why, but I recall the tone of the letter being very final and shrugging. I wish I still had it, it was very meaningful to me.
Hopefully that doesn't dishearten you! I like the fans' interpretations of why Pan became a pine marten all these years later. And Pullman is a clever author, so I sincerely doubt he had zero reasoning for choosing his main character's daemon's form. But "I'm not sure" will always bounce around in my skull as the final answer - and there is a sort of meaning in that vagueness, to me. Everyone else's daemons are very blatant in character, but Lyra's carries with it a secretiveness that even the author doesn't dare to open up- it reminds me of those who carry a hidden part of themselves forever and are defined by it over time- like being defined as the lack of "something" rather than the "something" that surrounds it. If daemons represent their inner hearts, and the author doesn't know Lyra's, perhaps her being unknowable at her core, is "why a pine marten".
I wrote directly to Pullman back when I was in 7th grade (the very year that Amber Spyglass came out!). I was so completely infatuated with his world but bewildered as to Pantalaimon's form. I asked him WHY a pine marten, and when I got the return letter I was extremely excited and I read it. "I'm not sure why" was his answer.
I was perplexed and crestfallen, but always took it as Word of God from then on- "I'm not sure" is why he chose a pine marten.
I'm sure I'm not the only kid he wrote to in those years, and perhaps he was just trying to spur me into thinking about the symbolism more without being told directly why, but I recall the tone of the letter being very final and shrugging. I wish I still had it, it was very meaningful to me.
Hopefully that doesn't dishearten you! I like the fans' interpretations of why Pan became a pine marten all these years later. And Pullman is a clever author, so I sincerely doubt he had zero reasoning for choosing his main character's daemon's form. But "I'm not sure" will always bounce around in my skull as the final answer - and there is a sort of meaning in that vagueness, to me. Everyone else's daemons are very blatant in character, but Lyra's carries with it a secretiveness that even the author doesn't dare to open up- it reminds me of those who carry a hidden part of themselves forever and are defined by it over time- like being defined as the lack of "something" rather than the "something" that surrounds it. If daemons represent their inner hearts, and the author doesn't know Lyra's, perhaps her being unknowable at her core, is "why a pine marten".
Pantalaimon had been an ermine when mutual comfort was what he and Lyra needed. Other times he was an animal that would look tougher and more daunting to others. Wildcat was common early on, but toward the end sometimes something larger and fiercer because there was so much danger. A lynx?? It makes sense that Pan's final form would retain both aspects by being a larger, fiercer ermine like animal. Also, he took that new form while Lyra was experiencing something new and was not in physical danger. It makes sense to me. It also makes sense that we'd all feel some disappointment when Pan can't change any more and feel that no final form is quite the right one.
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