Madam, want to talk about author Mary Stewart? discussion

Discussion for chapters 13 thru 16. Please comment on anything from these chapters, but remember to hide spoilers within a spoiler tag. Please note which chapter a spoiler is from so other readers will know if it is safe to "peek" or not. You do not have to wait until reading all of the chapters to comment, but please restrict your posts to content from chapters 1 thru 16. Enjoy!

Note: I am dividing the read into 5 sections, each 4 chapters long. I may adjust as we go, so check the chapter numbers for each section! :)

Part way into chapter 14

Oh dear! It is looking more and more like (view spoiler)[ Colin was let go to set a trap for Mark. I don't think Nicola has even considered that (hide spoiler)]. This could get ugly, I'm afraid!

Diane Lynn wrote: "Part way into chapter 14

Oh dear! It is looking more and more like [spoilers removed]. This could get ugly, I'm afraid!"

That's what i'm thinking, too, and then (view spoiler)[she finds him, much to our relief, only to find a hastily buried body! (hide spoiler)] Ms. Stewart has me totally confused, again!

Jeannette wrote: "Diane Lynn wrote: "Part way into chapter 14

Oh dear! It is looking more and more like [spoilers removed]. This could get ugly, I'm afraid!"

That's what i'm thinking, too, and then [spoilers remov..."

I was confused too. I kept thinking, good grief what is MS doing. Then I couldn't put it down!

It is good that by the end of chapter 16 (view spoiler)[the gang is all back together, Colin did not shoot Lambis or Mark, and everyone seems to be in a very festive mood. I am dreading what is sure to be coming soon. With 4 more chapters to go, this will not be so neat and tidy as they all seem to think. (hide spoiler)]

I did find it touching that (view spoiler)[Sofia saves Colin's life, more than once. She has the tender heart of a mother. (hide spoiler)]

From Chapter 14, this just may be my favorite passage so far:

(view spoiler)["'For heaven's sake!' I stared at this capable child with -- it must be confessed -- a touch of exasperation. The rescue was going all wrong. Colin, it now seemed, was escorting me to Mark." (hide spoiler)]

Ashley wrote: "From Chapter 14, this just may be my favorite passage so far:

[spoilers removed]"

She can't catch a break, can she? ;)

End of Chapter 15 ... I nearly shouted, "What?!" three times in this chapter. Things sure did pick up after (view spoiler)[Nicola found Colin (hide spoiler)]!

I don't want to say anything until you get through chapter 16....

Jeannette wrote: "I don't want to say anything until you get through chapter 16...."

Finished 16. Holy moley! And you're right about Nicola -- she gets it from all sides! (Or two sides, anyway!)

In chapter 16 after (view spoiler)[they are all back together, they must feel very comfortable. The conversations take on a tone of playful companionship. One example:
"The loot," said Lambis. "What is that?"
"The swag," said Colin. "The lolly, the pickings, the-"
Lambis put a hand to the side of his head, and pushed him over into a rosemary bush.
"The stolen property," I said laughing.
"Order children," said Mark.

I enjoyed these conversations and they show what a sense of humor Stewart has. (hide spoiler)]

Diane Lynn wrote: "In chapter 16 after ..."

You're right, Diane, (view spoiler)[ the playful conversations do show Stewart's humor well. And it was nice to have some light moments after all the tension with finding the body and with Lambis (hide spoiler)].

Frances shows Stewart's humor at its finest, too -- she's wickedly clever and one of my favorite things about the book. :)

Beginning Chapter 13: I think I just hit the third (or fourth?) cigarette. At least the count has gone down from the books MS wrote in the 50's!

I haven't started Chapter 13 yet, but that is where I am now. I like Frances!

Frances is wonderful! She reminds me of Cousin Geillis from Thornyhold, but she's more sarcastic. :)

Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "Frances is wonderful! She reminds me of Cousin Geillis from Thornyhold, but she's more sarcastic. :)"

And "the most tolerant person I know". Quite a recommendation, I think. She's not namby-pamby tolerant (calling Tony "Ceddy" just cracks me up), but tolerant in the old-fashioned good way of "what you do with your life is your business". She's someone I'd love to be friends with.

Tadiana, is there a spoilers thread somewhere? My feed stops with these chapters.

Karlyne wrote: "Tadiana, is there a spoilers thread somewhere? My feed stops with these chapters."

The threads are there, they're just hiding. Click on "Discussions" and then the "Buddy Reads" header and you'll see more topics.

"I'm not crying. I never cry." Gotta love that.

Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Tadiana, is there a spoilers thread somewhere? My feed stops with these chapters."

The threads are there, they're just hiding. Click on "Discussions" and then the "Buddy Reads" hea..."

Found them! Apparently I've lost my Goodreads feed, too, since Friday. I'm never sure if it's my internet provider who always manages to mess up my email, or if it's Goodreads. But I'll keep checking back for comments!

Karlyne wrote: "Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "Frances is wonderful! She reminds me of Cousin Geillis from Thornyhold, but she's more sarcastic. :)"

And "the most tolerant person I know". Quite a recommendation, I ..."

I didn't get the "Ceddy" reference. Does anyone know what she's talking about?

She had been calling Tony Little Lord Fauntleroy. I just assumed Ceddy was a nickname for LLF's real name. Turns out to be right....here is the wiki page for that book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_...

Thank you! That makes sense. Nickname for Cedric. I never knew that was LLF's actual name. BTW I think it's fairly clear that Tony is gay, though MS doesn't say. Anyone disagree?

Completely agree, Tadiana. But I wouldn't have realized it if I had read this book in my younger days. I was pretty naive way back then, and it is fairly subtle compared to some other character portrayals I have read.

Just starting chapter 15. Can I just say that I love how MS starts each chapter with an appropriate quote from a classic? But I always have to go back and read it after I finished the chapter to get why it was included.

Chapter 16-17: The hawkweed that everyone keeps mixing up with dandelions.



AKA Langleyensis hirsuta.

Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "Chapter 16-17: The hawkweed that everyone keeps mixing up with dandelions.



AKA Langleyensis hirsuta."

I'm pretty sure we have Langleyensis hirsuta growing here, too. By the way, I'm guessing that the "hirsuta" is a reference to the two-day beard, which is also quite funny!

As far as Tony being gay, I've always thought of him as just being not interested in people, male or female, but being completely self-involved. Nicola describes him as looking at her with a cold eye somewhere towards the end. I think little Tony only loves little Tony.

I'm almost done, now in Chapter 18, but just wanted to mention a couple of thoughts I had last night.
I had forgotten how caught up I could get in a MS book, hers and Daphne Du Maurier's are the books I have the hardest time putting down. I did manage to put it down last night and go to sleep. This is after having read it once before.
I can't believe I had forgotten so much. (view spoiler)[ When they found the grave, I was sure MS did not do that, and then I thought that the clothes must have been changed. Then later I thought that there was something in her pocket but didn't remember what. (hide spoiler)] So, I am remembering just enough to figure things out just as they happen.
Still, it is really fun to read a book for the second time and enjoy it almost like a first time.

Sorry to be tuning in late here. Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "Thank you! That makes sense. Nickname for Cedric. " I loved that for all the reason discussed above but also because I remembered that I read this one as a teenager and realized on this re-read as a senior that Tony, 'Little Lord Fauntleroy' is probably supposed to be gay. lol it flew right over my innocent head ;)

Bobbie, I've been having the same experience since it's been so may years since I've read this one. (view spoiler)[The grave was a horrible moment (hide spoiler)] and plenty of shocks after that!

Meanwhile I just love the horticultural references. Lots of great action scenes and tension.

Hana wrote: "Sorry to be tuning in late here. Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "Thank you! That makes sense. Nickname for Cedric. " I loved that for all the reason discussed above but also because I remembered that ..."

I think I can thank MS for the beginning of a love of plants (and Shakespeare) which started with my first Stewart read. I had certainly never really looked at them before and couldn't identify much beyond the difference between a pansy and a petunia. I still find it fascinating to re-read one of her books and come upon a plant I've never actually seen!

That's such a great connection, Karlyne! I loved this picture of MS in her garden in Scotland. I think those are Michaelmas daisies in the border (we call them asters).

That is a lovely picture, Hana!

I can't see them clearly in the photo; but that looks like a typical late autumn garden when they would bloom! We also call them Asters as well as Michelmas Daisies here in Scotland. I think it depends on whereabouts in the UK you are and whether you are a proper 'botanical' gardener or simply, like me, an amateur!! I think MS was such a well rounded, properly educated person and it shows in all her books. As a lecturer at Edinburgh University her intellectual abilities were undeniable - but additionally, her interests ranged so widely and she used them so well, so it is a delight to always learn something new in her books. France's is a lovely character - perhaps a little neglected at the end. I always hoped for more!

I learn from her books, too, Susan. It's always a delight and an adventure to follow where she leads.

The asters are native to my part of the U.S., New England, hence the old botanical name Aster novae-angliae. They got to the U.K in the early 1700s and went wild :)

We have a little "showy aster" (and also a little "showy daisy")wildflower out West. They're very small and not terrifically common in my area, but I do see them!

And I love that picture, Hana! She looks so ... happy!

Debbie wrote: ""I'm not crying. I never cry." Gotta love that."

Just want you all to know that this is my favorite speech in my favorite novel. I memorized the "Involved? Heaven Give Me Strength, Involved?" Speech in chapter 16 when I WAS sixteen and can still recite most of it cold. Love Mary Stewart's treatment of the whole situation. Wonderful dialog and irony. My proof of ongoing affection? More than sixteen years later, I kept my promise to name my son after Mr. God-almighty Mark (Langley).

Lady Mary did have an influence on me too. I named my daughter Vanessa after her Vanessa in "Airs Above the Ground." No one can touch Lady Mary for painting such a vivid picture of falling in love with so few words.

Lori wrote: "Debbie wrote: ""I'm not crying. I never cry." Gotta love that."

Just want you all to know that this is my favorite speech in my favorite novel. I memorized the "Involved? Heaven Give Me Strength, ..."

"Was he named after Saint Mark?"
"Uh, yes..."

I loved some of the idioms and picturesque metaphors that emerged in Chapter 16 (view spoiler)[, mostly from the mouth of the delightful Colin, once he appeared on the scene (hide spoiler)].
I can't wait for the next time someone yells at me, just so I get the chance to complain about them going down my throat with their boots on! And I look forward to any opportunity at all I might get to respond "not a sausage" to some question put to me.

Still use “ not a sausage”. It is very expressive!

The twist in this section has to be one of the all-time-great twists. The shallow grave, the clothes . . . Even though I’ve read the story before, it still gets me in the gut.

And I adore the slang highlighted above, and the relationships among the three sailors revealed by that dialogue.

deleted user (comment 5) wrote: "It is good that by the end of chapter 16 ...everyone seemed to be in a very festive mood..."

I thought it was too festive, considering (view spoiler)[that they'd just seen and excavated a shallow grave - though it is understandable there was joy when Mark and Colin were reunited. (hide spoiler)] . . . I just think if I were in the situation, I wouldn't be laughing.

I dunno, sometimes people react with silliness and hilarity when they’ve just had a shock and then the tension lifts.

Abigail wrote: "The twist in this section has to be one of the all-time-great twists. The shallow grave, the clothes . . . Even though I’ve read the story before, it still gets me in the gut.."

(view spoiler)[And of course the mountain would begin to slide at the very moment they're about to turn the body over ;-). (hide spoiler)]

Abigail wrote: "I dunno, sometimes people react with silliness and hilarity when they’ve just had a shock and then the tension lifts."

As Mary Stewart might say, "It can take you this way." There is a slightly hysterical note there that, to me, makes the scene very realistic. Also, Lambis's mood is a bit more subdued, as one might expect. And then, Nicola's outburst – it makes sense to me.

Abigail wrote: "I dunno, sometimes people react with silliness and hilarity when they’ve just had a shock and then the tension lifts."

This is so very true. A bad shock can lead to complete disinhibition, a shattering of all our learned behavioral boundaries.

Yes - shock can have a strange effect on our reactions. Laughter in the face of horrific tragedy or fear doesn't surprise me at all.

Just a wee comment to bump up this thread for fresh discussion. Following Abigail's example here!