The History Book Club discussion

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BY Logan Beirne

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In compliance with FTC guidelines, please disclose in your review that you received the book for free through the History Book Club on Goodread if that is the case.

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A candid look at Geo. Washington's philsophy of being the U.S. first commander in chief. Beirne is enlightening as to Washington's tolerance of Tory and Loyalist citizens and his inviolable protector of their rights as Americans. The "man who would be king" began as a humble servant of Congress but a turned into a bulletproof commander who gave no quarter to cowardry.
Beirne writes" Washington would rather his troops starve than trample Americans' rights." On the other hand "His Excellency" brutally slaughtered Native Americans in his quest to secure the safety of U.S. citizens in the French and Indian War.
I thought this book would have more analogies with present-day treatment of prisoners of war, but this aspect was mentioned more as an aside to the thematic chapters. It bothered me slightly that the chapters were arranged according to topics, not chronologically which resulted in some repetition.
Famous names in history such as Benedict Arnold, Nathaniel Greene and Ethan Allen are portrayed in colorful anecdotes. Likewise place names such as the Torture Tree and West Point are brought to life. Beirne usually gives phyiscal descriptions of the players, which helps lend authenticity and details.
His writing style was easy to read and some of his sentences almost humorous in the vernacular, such as "Martha was not happy"; "Arnold snapped"; And Washington "drew the proverbial line in the sand."
All in all, a worthwhile read
I received the book for free through the History Book Club on Goodread

Thank you Rusty

I received a complimentary copy of this book from the publisher through The History Book Club on GoodReads.

This is an interesting look at how George Washington shaped the definition of the American Presidency. I enjoyed all of the small and interesting bits of history that I had not seen before in my history studies. It is very well researched and nicely written.

I just couldn't wait to finish the book with the group, but I will still be active in the weekly threads. The discussion has made the book even more enjoyable, it has been especially nice to have the author join us.

Thanks

Thanks for your review, Kathy. I'm glad you joined us.

I received a free copy of this book from the publisher through the History Book Club.

Before reading this book, I knew little about George Washington other than what I was taught in school. Beirne has a strong sense of story, and I enjoyed reading this book. The author includes physical descriptions of the main characters, as well as a wealth of anecdote that makes them come alive for the reader. After reading this book, Washington was no longer just a cardboard hero to me. I was left with genuine respect for this man of great personal courage, leadership skills, ethical behavior, and true dedication to the republican ideal.

Although I found the portrayal of Washington interesting, I was less impressed with Beirne’s attempts to tie Washington’s decisions to contemporary hot button issues. In fact, Beirne actually groups the chapters in his book according to “the topics most relevant to today: prisoner abuse, congressional interference in war policy, military tribunals and Americans’ rights.” (p.8) Various factors make this a real stretch: Washington was strictly a military leader during the war, unlike the president who combines both civilian and military power; Washington was fighting a civil war on American soil, as opposed to a fight against foreign terrorists around the world, etc. Perhaps because of these tenuous connections, Beirne does not really explore the comparisons. He leaves that to the reader.

Beirne wraps up his book by talking about the legal theory of “originalism,” which posits that the legal meaning of the Constitution rests on its writers’ intentions at the time it was written. Since there is no real description of the president’s role as “commander-in-chief,” other than that he is head of the military, Beirne says that we need to look to Washington’s life to find what the founders had in mind to get a more complete picture. This seems quite nebulous to me.

In spite of my reservations, this book is very readable and most readers will enjoy the colorful accounts of American and British leadership in these very critical times.

Thank you, Ann, for sharing your thoughts with us.

I find intent of the founding fathers also to be a little nebulous, which, I guess, makes it a ongoing effort.

I received this book as a free copy and I'd like to thank Goodreads, Encounter Books and the HBC for this opportunity. And as always, thank you to the moderators and the other participants for a stimulating discussion.

Blood of Tyrants brings to the modern day the issues of government, leadership and political divide which resonate over the centuries, and which started with George Washington and the American experiment.

It discusses the potential abuse of power, torture of prisoners, preemptive attacks on insurgents, and the rights of citizens during wartime (among others topics).

From the start, the author raised the question, in my mind, as to whether George Washington was 'WASHINGTON' because he was the person at the helm during a victorious revolutionary war or because he set the course. By showing how circumspect Washington was in leading the war against the British, and how deferential he was to Congress until pushed to the brink, I believe the answer is because he was George Washington, the person. Many of the checks and balances that exist along side the prerogative of the presidency today arose because of Washington’s respect for Citizenship. As a result, the respect for the man became respect for the President, which alas, has deteriorated today.

One of my challenges in writing about a book for Goodreads is keeping it short. As a result, I am leaving out many key points.

I believe the author allows us to understand that Washington laid the groundwork for America to evolve as a nation. The anecdotes he uses to press forward his point are effective, and we do get to see Washington’s flaws and indecision.

One of things Mr. Beirne shows us is that rather than being written in demagogue stone, the very ambiguous nature of the rules and the person who enforced them allowed this democracy to grow.

Mr. Beirne has an excellent command of the English language and he uses it to great effect, but there are times when I feel he is forcing the facts to meet his thesis. Even so, it was good to see a new way of delivering the facts and bringing them together.

Sometimes the writing style felt like dinner party conversation, which takes away from the quality of the research. But then again, perhaps since we are in a new era of communicating, this style is more appealing to young people today. If that is the case and it draws them into reading history, more power to it.

All in all, I am looking forward to more books by Logan Beirne. I assume they will be as engaging and thoughtful as this one.

Thanks for the great review, G, and thanks for joining us.

This book examines historical precedent set by George Washington regarding the powers of the President as Commander in Chief as granted by the US Constitution. Through this book Beirne examines Washington's actions throughout the Revolution and how those actions were viewed by members of the Constitutional Convention who were drafting the basis for our current form of government. He argues that Washington was the clear model they were upon which they based the discussions on the role of the Commander in Cheif.

The book looks at the balance of power during the revolution between Washington and Congress and how that balance evolved during the war. It also looks at how Washington exercised or limited his use of power regarding prisoners of war, military tribunals, citizens rights, and more.

Beirne explores Washington's actions and precedents in part by beginning to reveal Washington's character. Interesting side stories and facts are scattered throughout the book helping the reader understand who Washington was and the issues discussed on a more personal level. The topics are explained and discussed in a way that allows those with limited knowledge of the topics to follow along.

Beirne makes a clear argument that Washington was the model for the Commander in Chief in the debates over the constitution. When it comes to the specific topics he addresses, he draws minimal conclusions and seems to prefer to leave the reader to draw his own conclusions regarding how the president should act. While the the book references the similarities between the issues being talked about in the revolution and similar ones we face today, the link between the two is primarily rhetorical.

I would have preferred the author to draw a few more conclusions and tie those conclusions to modern policy; but I understand the authors desire to focus on Washington more than changing modern policy.

Overall I though the book was enlightening and thought provoking and worth the read.

Disclosure: I received a copy of "Blood of Tyrants" by Logan Beirne for free through the History Book Club on Goodreads.

Thanks Mark

We are at the end of the book. The threads will remain open if you are behind, no worries.

Feel free to add your final thoughts as others have already done so.

Thanks everyone and to Logan.

My experience reading this book helped make Washington real to me in a way that he wasn't before. I was in the DC area recently, and more thoroughly appreciated the paintings and tributes to Washington as a result.

I particularly enjoyed seeing Stuart's unfinished portraits of George and Martha Washington in the National Portrait Gallery. I noted the severity in Washington's pose that Beirne pointed out.

Thanks, Ann, sorry you couldn't comment more this round.

Always a pleasure and thanks for posting when you did.

Thanks, Bryan. I was busy traveling this fall and didn't have a computer handy, so I didn't participate as much as I would have liked.

Logan Beirne's Blood of Tyrants: George Washington & the Forging of the Presidency is a Pulitzer Prize nominated look into George Washington, the American Revolution and the start of a new nation and a new political power. Through little known details and stories, Beirne vividly chronicles key themes in Washington's military career and in the molding of the new nation.

This book has become the modern day equivalent of the "glasses" that Washington wore in 1783. It has allowed us to see the human side of him, flaws and all while still capturing the essence of the larger than life character we have known him to be.

This book definitely gives one reason to think about where our government started and where we are today. I believe our founding fathers tried to anticipate growth in the country and I think those original principles are what all Americans want to see continue, to be "...completely free and happy" (p. 319). We definitely have interesting times ahead of us, just as we had interesting times before.

I had the pleasure of reading/discussing this book with the author and other history enthusiasts. The experience certainly broadened my understanding of those early years of our nation, the struggles and triumphs our founding fathers endured and celebrated and brought George Washington to life.

I received the book for free from the publisher through the History Book Club on Goodreads.

Thanks Teri.

I received this book for free from the publisher through the History Book Club on Goodreads.

I wanted to read the book and participate in this discussion because I realized I knew very little about Washington aside from the basics, and my understanding of the Revolution a little shaky. I wanted to learn more.

Thanks to Logan Beirne & the group, I have. My thoughts on the book are a little mixed. I did learn a lot about Washington. I appreciate that the book was a quick read, but sometimes the caricatures of anyone who opposed Washington (including the hatchet job on his mother! - she did sound like a reald piece of work, though!) and very informal writing took away from the seriousness of the subject for me. No one is perfect, not even Washington. He was a great man at a crucial time, but it seemed that Beirne was at pains to excuse any and everything Washington did that would raise eyebrows.

But I loved Logan's participation - his enthusiasm for his subject, the time devoted to our questions, his joy in sharing and teaching....bravo!

Thanks, mods & fellow HBC discussers for an enriching time!

And thank you Mary Ellen. I'm glad you had a chance to read the book and get involved. Hope to see you again.

As time rolls on, I think we have a tendency to look back at the past as clear cut black and white. The right decisions were obvious, and the good guys were clearly separated out from the bad guys. Our present may be murky, the right decisions may have to be sorted out through a big mixture of grayish haze, and the line between the good and bad guys may be finer than we'd admit; but the past, now THAT was clear.

Beirne does an incredible job of bringing George Washington to life, and laying out the issues that he had to deal with clearly. The truth is that George Washington's time (as well as every other time) is shrouded in the gray murkiness. The black and white, cut and dry setting that we envision didn't exist. It takes great men to sort through the haze, make the right decisions, and be able to stand on principle, even when that may involve some difficulty.

Blood of Tyrants is an engaging read. It reads like a story, and Beirne deals with concepts as the story of the Revolution brings them up. This book brings you into contact with George Washington: his good and bad decisions, as well as his humanity. It also left me struck at how much of our current system is only here because of the restraint he showed in not grabbing the power that he probably could have.

Thanks to Logan and the mods for keeping discussion going! I had a blast reading through this with everyone.

Disclosure: I received this book for free through The History Book Club on Goodreads.

Thanks for the great review Todd.

Overall the best parts of this book were the tie ins with issues going on today. The end of the book's discussion of "originalism" was particularly fascinating and was not something I had previously come across. However it is certainly important and vital to modern interpretations of the Constitution. Beirne said it best when he said "historical understand should at least be a starting point for interpreting the Constitution." That statement sums it all up and solidifies the necessity of not taking the Constitution out of its historical context when interpreting it.

Thanks David.

My review:
Every once in a while, a book comes along that challenges the reader or scholar to think beyond the confined years of the subject and consider its lasting impact. Logan Beirne has presented us with such a book in Blood of Tyrants: George Washington & the Forging of the Presidency. Washington has had a well examined life, if one considers the sheer amount of volumes on his life and Presidency. And one could be forgiven if they have begun to become wearisome at the many pedestrian biographies that fill the bookstore shelves.

This is definitely not your usual book on Washington- this is so much more. Beirne is not giving the reader a chronological biography or even an overview of Washington at war. What he does is provide a much needed volume that connects Washington’s experiences and growth during the Revolutionary War and connects them not only to the creation of the office of Presidency (the Founders had modeled the office on GW), but also underlines how Washington is still relevant today. Beirne presents Washington’s experiences (and in some cases inexperience) as our first military commander-in-chief in a different and candid way. The author strips away the marble from the statuesque Washington that most people are familiar with- distant and cold, a kind of demi-god who helped to shape our country. Within the pages of the book we have a more realistic and immediate man, a man of duty and character, but of heart and passion. We see Washington as he dealt with bickering civic leaders, troubling bureaucracies, spies and even betrayal. We are able to observe him deal with the real problems and tragedies of war. The readers witness the messy problems, the impossible choices, the tragedies of the Revolution as well as the triumphs. We learn more about how Washington navigated both the politics and the realities of “boots-on-the-ground” warfare and how it impacted the people of the country.

Then the book presents how Washington shaped the office of the President and established precedents that still have ramifications today. Beirne makes an excellent case for considering not just the intent, but the actual experiences and decisions of Washington and the Founders in terms of better understanding the Constitution. Ultimately, Beirne challenges the reader to consider today’s violent and difficult world in light of the world of the Founders – and to see that perhaps we not only seek the same answers and solutions, but also the same quality and character of our leaders.

As a History instructor, I was intrigued by the nature of the organization of the book – as it took Washington and his experiences topically. It would be an asset to include several chapters, if not the whole book, as reading for an American Revolution, Constitutional History or even Political Science course. In my experience, I assigned a segment of the book for one evening’s class that sparked a long discussion on the nature of the Presidency, precedents in office, Washington’s experiences and his farewell advice to the American people. It isn’t often that I am able to do that with a segment of a book as the average non-history major doesn’t often like navigating texts or dry academic history. The secret is that no one really enjoys the banalities of dry academic writing- students and instructors prefer excellent and engaging academic writing. And Beirne’s style is just that; engaging, crisp and enjoyable just to read. This book is a worthy addition to any library and is a must for the shelf of any historian, history buff, constitutional scholar, or anyone with an interest not only in American history, but also those with an interest in America’s future. Blood of Tyrants: George Washington & the Forging of the Presidency is highly recommended.


Note: I receive the book from the publisher through the History Book Club on Goodreads. Thank you to the publisher and the moderators of The History Book Club for their generosity of a review copy and their time.

Great review, John, thank you joining us.

Wow, John. That is a nice review. I appreciate reading your well put together thoughts.

Thanks- it was a great book to read.
Also thanks to Bryan, Bentley and all the mods who took their time to moderate the discussion and thoughtfully comment and further along the discussions. I didn't comment on everything, but would say something every once in a while, but the threads were great reading and running commentary. That combined with Logan's Q&A made this, my first experience with a History Book Club discussion, a lot of fun and interesting! Thanks to everyone!

Thanks for joining us Libby

Just a note to everyone, if you really enjoyed this book, give it a vote on the History and Biography Nominees, Goodreads Choice Awards Nominees 2013.

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/4...

Thanks, David, I'm sure Logan would appreciate that. I just voted.

Ditto

Great to see it on the list. I add it as a write in vote in the History category. Now I've voted on this one- thanks for the heads up.

John wrote: "Great to see it on the list. I add it as a write in vote in the History category. Now I've voted on this one- thanks for the heads up."

Excellent, it's taken a big lead with our help. Is the History List the Best Books of 2013 one that they have to vote on? I couldn't seem to vote for a book other than the top listed ones.

I don't know for sure. I was able to do a "write-in Vote" on that list in the first wave, but since they have narrowed it down to a couple, I don't see a write-in option.
The list you linked to seems to be separate.

I'm not sure where the original list came from.

This was a great and well attended event. Thank you Libby for your kind words and thanks to all of the wonderful participants who with their posting moved the discussion right along.