fiction files redux discussion

Here is the URL for everyone...

http://www.online-literature.com/tols...

Discussion forthcoming.

First, for anyone who isn't aware of Tolstoy's autobiographical details as they might relate to this story, check out the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy). It gives a more complete picture of the man's history, beliefs, etc. although I imagine it's cursory given all that he accomplished in his lifetime.

I started by looking for information about Tolstoy's life when he wrote/published this story.

According to the site on which I found the story, Three Hermits was published in 1886, around the same time as the following other works:

+What I Believe (also called My Religion) (1884)
+The Death of Ivan Ilyich (1886)
+How Much Land Does a Man Need? (1886)
+The Power of Darkness (1886), drama

During this period in his life, Tolstoy had recently finished Anna Karenina and had begun focusing on Christian themes.

Notable from the Wikipedia entry: "Tolstoy believed that a true Christian could find lasting happiness by striving for inner self-perfection through following the Great Commandment of loving one's neighbor and God rather than looking outward to the Church or state for guidance and meaning." Tolstoy influenced everyone from Gandhi to Martin Luther King, Jr., with his doctrine of non-violence.

So those are a few facts about his life that stood out for me after I had read this story. Now, on to the story itself.

Let me first confess that I was not raised with a whole lot of religion in my life, so my thoughts on this story will not share some great amount of knowledge, or moving amount of faith, the way other people might. I've read and discussed a fair amount but that's not the same, really.

I read this story as a parable about the power of fewer words, the depth of simplicity and the belief that God already knows what you need -- about these three men, who have turned away from society to save their souls, learning from the Bishop who will now show them the proper way to pray, and instead showing the bishop that even the simplest of prayers is -good enough?- for the holiest of men.

I am sure that the professions of the people on the boat have meaning - a tradesmen, a fisherman, pilgrims. I'm equally sure that the Bishop not being able to see the island at first is meaningful but I'm not sure precisely why, and the length of the journey for the Bishop also has meaning I can't quite grasp.

I liked the way one of the hermits put it, at the end of the story - as thought the loss of one word, like a piece of yarn unraveling from a sweater, inevitably makes the prayer itself fall apart - and then where are you?

As long as we kept repeating it we remembered, but when we stopped saying it for a time, a word dropped out, and now it has all gone to pieces. We can remember nothing of it. Teach us again.

So yeah, like I said, I'm not all that well-trained... and just medium-read.

At the risk of sounding “preachy”, this is what I think about the story…


The length of the journey for the Bishop: Some (not all) religious people are far away from God. They follow a set of beliefs, values and practices. They are repetitive in prayer, in such a way that has become routine… “following the motions”.

He could not see the island: The bishop was so caught up in his way of life that he was unable to see the spiritual side of worship – he was miles away from a personal closeness with God.

Different classes of people on the ship: Those who could see the island from a greater distance were spiritually closer to God. Their position on the social ladder is of little importance to godly living.

The hermits forget the Our Father prayer: The Our Father prayer is an outline, an example to follow during spiritual meditation. It is not necessarily meant to be a word for word incantation. Because the hermits wish only to please God, they desire to follow the bishop’s teaching. They forget how to say the Our Father because they don’t need an outline/example anymore.

The prayer closet: The bishop was surrounded by people, doing the Lord’s work, making the announcement of his good deeds. The hermits were alone on an island, doing the Lord’s work. They were humble before God. When you pray, it should not be done with the intention that everyone else should see it. Prayer is a private, intimate connection.

The calm ocean surrounding the island: I think, is self explanatory.

I am so glad I have such smart people in my thread!

Thank you for this, Bonita.

You're welcome!

this short story makes me think of the movie being there.

I've started that movie about 50 times but for some reason never finished it. Also, it is really hard for me to see Sellers as anyone but Inspector Clouseau, because I grew up loving those old Pink Panther movies, and while I adore Steve Martin, the newer ones are a travesty, not even a shadow on the wall of the cave compared to the old ones.

So, does anyone have any insights into Tolstoy, read a lot of him, have anything to say about the style of this story - I know Dan read Anna Karenina recently...

In his bio on Wikipedia, it's mentioned that Tolstoy's realism is among the characteristics of his work that make everyone love him so much. I could see, in this story, that as he described certain things I did feel as though I were standing on the boat - but the story itself is allegorical.

This got me thinking about some of the other work I've read over the years that was about religion or God in some way, and the use of allegory in that work.

Why is it used so often? Is it because of the way the Bible 'teaches' -- while it talks about specific people, is really about everyman, so that we can all draw something from the stories? Like Job... or Paul...? And other religious texts like the The Bhagavad Gita, or even philosophical texts like Plato's Allegory of the Cave - tell a story, but in a way we can all relate to or draw something from it?

Is it the case that it's the most effective way to teach someone a religious or philosophical principal? I'm just wondering, really.

I read it twice. And both times my thought was "it could be any one of those stories they went on about in sunday school class." I get it and I see what it wants me to see. But I don't walk away with anything new.

Yeah, I have a hard time reading that story with the hermits running over the water. Even if I grew up with religion, it is hard for me to accept magic in the Bible relating to faith. But I do admire the earnestness of the hermits.

I was bothered by the hermits floating on the water, too. There was no hint of anything magical going on from the beginning, no clue to make it seem more believable. I laughed when it happened. It felt somewhat out of place and took me out of the story - good thing it happened at the end.

don't parables have to have some kind of fantastical/miraculous element? just to punch the lesson home?

Well then the author should have followed Ben's example and call it Parable of the Three Hermits. If blame must be placed then all fingers shall be pointed toward Tolstoy :...dammit where that button that makes the icon at the end of the sentence sticks out his tongue?

seems to me the hermits floating across the water is the story, in the same way as jesus feeding the 5000 or walking on water or healing the blind man or raising lazarus... miracles are magic, the magic of faith. of course they're hard to accept; on the other hand, they really happen when you do.

(at least, such is my understanding.)

i should also point out that this is an old russian folktale that tolstoy is retelling, not a tale of his own invention. if that matters at all; perhaps it helps explain the miraculous element in the work of a guy who's essentially a realist.

Thanks for this, Ben. I wasn't thinking parable when I began reading this story... also didn't know this was a russian folktale. But I did enjoy Tolstoy's voice.

It was smooth and seamless. Probably the only russian story that didn't anger or irritate me.

I am not sure why Tolstory wrote that story because I checked out and skimmed his biography and he seemed to convert to to religion belief, but near the end of his life, he seemed exhuberant that one does not pass onto the next level or die with his or her memory/spirit intact. I guess I will have to read further more to find out later.

From what I have been able to gather from Tolstoy's life, it seems as though he went through several sort of... pendulum swings in what he believed, and worked a lot of it out - expressed his ideas - in his work.

In later years, he would refer to Anna K as something along the lines of irrelevant, even though it's considered one of the greatest works of Russian literature (of literature period), ever written.

I haven't read any of his other stuff (yeah I know, I suck) - was he more politically engaged earlier in his career, and then perhaps moved into a less 'worldly' perspective, a more... stripped down, essential, humanistic set of beliefs...?

The small amount I've read about this religious conversion in his life... I confess I don't know a whole lot about the whole Eastern Orthodox church or its reforms, after the Great Schism. (I don't even know if what I'm calling the Great Schism is what I'm thinking - the split between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy).

I mean, we had the Catholic Church. Then we had the Protestant reforms, the Church of England - and a lot of what he seems to be saying in terms of leaving behind doctrine, about that close relationship with God, even in this story leaving behind those rote ritual prayers, is in keeping with Luther, at least to some extent.

Obviously Tolstoy would have known and read about the protestant reformation and settling of the new world having happened hundreds of years before his birth.

I'm just wondering how his beliefs might be different from what I've read about "pure" protestantism. (yeah, that's what i'm wondering. Glad I finally got that one out.)

Maybe I should read that book of his, What I Believe - that would probably clear this right up.