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BH - Chapter Two - No Spoilers
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Lee, High Priest of Shadow
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Jul 28, 2013 03:34PM
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‘All right, I’m a little stretched!’ The shriek echoed away, and the god subsided.
Things were not well. A little stretched, are you, Ammanas? I am not surprised. Cotillion could sympathize, and almost did. Momentarily, before reminding himself that Ammanas had invited most of the risks upon himself. And, by extension, upon me as well.
With the Crippled god and the Tiste Edur making a move on the Throne of Shadow and the Imass First Throne - Shadowthrone and Cotillion are in dire need of allies and Cotillion visits the three dragons chained within the Shadow Realm. On the way we meet Edgewalker
he felt a presence at his side, and turned to see a tall, skeletal creature, bedecked in rags, walking to match his pace.
Edgewalker wants to listen in on Cotillion’s conversation with the dragons. The dragons don’t usually say anything but Cotillion gets them talking by putting their possible freedom on the table.
I need to know, should you be freed, upon which side shall you fight.’
There was silence for a half-dozen heartbeats, then a voice rasped in Cotillion’s mind. ‘You come here, Usurper, in a quest for allies.’
We learn some a few interesting things from the Dragons
Firstly – the biggie – While the warrens are K’rul’s body and blood – it is the dragons magic that focused that bloods power and shaped it into usable warrens. As such, there exists a dragon for every warren.
The female dragon spoke, ‘I am Eloth, Mistress of Illusions – Meanas to you – and Mockra and Thyr. A Shaper of the Blood...
... ‘I am Ampelas, who shaped the Blood in the paths of Emurlahn. The sorcery wielded by the Tiste Edur was born of my will – do you now understand, Usurper?’
... Yes, I do indeed understand, Ampelas. And I should now presume that for each of the warrens, Elder and new, there is a corresponding dragon? You are the flavours of K’rul’s blood?
Wow! I missed all that the first time round.
Cotillion is pretty crafty here at getting the dragons to reveal information that he didn’t have or only suspected.
It’s becoming apparent now that the Shattering of Kurald Emurlahn was not caused by a singular event but by a convergence of multiple woundings. We had Icarium wounding the warren when he tried to release his father Gothos. There was the sorcery that the First Empire released when it tried to turn a whole city into soletaken in one go and then the sorcery unleashed when the Imass went to put an end to it. Last book in the prologue, Silchas accused Scabandari for having a part in the warren being sundered. And now the Dragons shed some light on Father Shadow’s role
Scabandari was originally Edur, and so he became their champion—’
‘After murdering the royal line of the Edur!’ Eloth said in a hiss. ‘After spilling draconean blood in the heart of Kurald Emurlahn! After opening the first, fatal wound upon that warren! What did he think gates were?’
The strong inference I get here is that the gates are made from dragon’s blood. By Scabandari spilling Dragon blood within the warren he basically punched holes through it. Rents that were exacerbated by the stresses already on the warren from the First Empire’s sorcery.
Also reading between the lines, Scabandari usurped the rightful Edur nobility – whoever that was – the three dragons then proceeded to attempt their own claim on the throne of Shadow in order to bring healing to the realm – to remake it. Scabandari fought back –I’m assuming at this stage he had become a soletaken dragon himself and able to mix it up with the dragons, splashing their blood and things turned pear shaped.
And then Rake turns up – Scabandari was already dead at that stage but Rake was able to flush the realm of any remaining Edur and chained down the three dragons where they are today and hid the Throne of Shadow away on Drift Avali. How is that for speculation!
There would be no dragons sitting on any warrens throne – for reasons explained earlier in the discourse
‘As I understand things,’ Cotillion replied, ‘once these dragons did what K’rul asked of them, they were compelled to return to Starvald Demelain. As the sources of sorcery, they could not be permitted to interfere or remain active across the realms, lest sorcery cease to be predictable, which in turn would feed Chaos – the eternal enemy in this grand scheme.
In other words – you want the cows hide to make your leather lounge – but you don’t want all the cows camping in your lounge and watching your tv and drinking all your beer after that!
At the end of the conversation Cotillion decides Rake had the right idea chaining
Dragons – Yes, the dragons would side with K’rul against the CG – being co-creators or maybe rather junior partners with him of the warren system- but once that was done they would just attempt to retake the throne of Shadow again – apart from not being a good thing for the magic system – Shadowthrone has no intention of no dragons ousting his slippery hide off his seat.
‘And from that world, Ampelas, he is poisoning the warrens. Every warren. Are you capable of fighting that?’
‘Were we freed—’
‘Were you freed,’ Cotillion said, with a hard smile, ‘you would resume your original purpose,(taking the throne of Shadow) and there would be more draconean blood spilled in the Realm of Shadow.’(Cotillion is now saying that he would resist the dragon’s attempts on the throne)
‘And you and your fellow usurper believe you are capable of that?’
‘You as much as admitted it,’ Cotillion said. ‘You can be killed, and when you have been killed, you stay dead.
But Cotillion decides it’s easier to leave them chained as they are.
But not before he weasels out what he really wanted to know. That is, the Crippled god was targeting the Shadow Realm because it was the weakest – not only was it shattered – but it only has a couple of noobs ie Shadowthrone and Cotilliion, looking after it.
‘A sundered realm is the weakest realm of all! Why do you think the Crippled God is working through it?’
‘Thank you,’ said Cotillion to Ampelas in a quiet tone. ‘That is what I needed to know.’
And on top of that we meet back up with Icarium and Mappo.
Also Cutter is escorting Heboric back to the Otataral Island along with Scillara and Felisin Younger accompanied by their pet demon greyfrog.
Fiddler and his squad are back. Tavore’s 14th army are on Leoman’s tail, but they are demoralised having been denied the opportunity to reek vengeance on Sha’ik’s rebellion – the fight being all over the night before the battle. And in the absence of battle the question mark still hangs over Tavore’s ability to lead.
It looks like Tavore wants Kalam to put together his own cadre of assassins separate to the Claw
‘So she wants her own cadre of assassins,’ Kalam said. ‘Unknown to the Claw. Oh, I don’t like where this is going, Quick.’
It appears Tavore believes she will now be perceived as a threat by the Empress and thus up for assassination
‘She crushed the rebellion – what more does Laseen want?’
‘Strong, when it comes to dealing with our enemies,’ Kalam said. ‘And weak when it comes to popularity.’
‘Tavore ain’t the popular sort of person, so what’s the problem?’
‘She might get popular. A few more successes – ones where it’s clear it’s not dumb luck. Come on, Fid, you know how fast an army can turn round.’
And Cheeky Quick Ben addresses Tayschrenn as an equal
‘Welcome, High Fist,’ Quick Ben said, straightening, adding a slightly deferential bow to Tayschrenn.
‘Colleague ...’
Tay doesn’t like it and things turn into a dick measuring contest between the two. Quick refers to a sorcerous conflagration that he instigated – that resulted in Tay being rescued from Tiste Andii sorcerers – Tay points out there was collateral damage in that incident and also then points out that whoever was responsible stole one of his demon lords and sent him to a horrible death and afterlife in Rakes Sword (ie Pearl in Gotm) – and things nearly turn ugly till Dujek tells them to put it back in their pants and get back to business.
And Pearl and Lostara are still hanging about the fringes. Pearl is spying for the Empress – I’m assuming his taking of the Talon Leader, Korbolo has gotten him back into the Empress’ good books.
So much packed into this chapter I’ve not got to everything I’m sure.
Mod
If those dragons are after Shadowthorne, I wonder if there is any relation to Curdle and Telorast and their throne(s).
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Holy crap Grey Frog is both disturbing and HILARIOUS. I like how he comes with his own Stage direction too.
'Declaration. It is said that the wasps of the desert guard gems and such. Query. Has Cutter heard such tales? Anticipatory pause.'
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A scene with QB, Kalam and Fiddler. Yay!
I'm curious just exactly what those three are doing meeting up with Tayshrenn and Dujek in private.
Then again, so is Pearl apparently.
The most interesting part for me from this section of the chapter was this little tidbit QB gives about his past in his "dick measuring contest" as David put it:
Quick Ben offered him a broad, white smile. 'Do you recall, High Mage, a certain other High Mage, sent by the Emperor, early on in the Blackdog Campaign? Kribalah Rule?'
'Rule the Rude? Yes he died after a month or so--
'In a horrible conflagration, aye. Well, that was me. Thus, I've been a High Mage before, colleague...
So QB was briefly running around as a High Mage before, presumably this was for the previous Emperor and not Laseen.
Mod
Well there was that stint where QB was a High Priest/Mage of Kellanved's Shadow cult before the Emperor became Shadowthrone.
Mod
Mod
Chapter 2. I think this one is dominated by Cotillion and the events regarding Shadow, which are already discussed by David and Rob.Nonetheless, I will dive into some of the sentences from this part as well. But I'd like to start of with my favourite sentence of the chapter, that sets the tone for all our protagonists in here:
1) Chapter 2 is for changed characters
The central sentence in this chapter is right in the middle of the chapter and seems to describe all our protagonists. It's from Cutter's point of view:
What I was is not what I am. Two men, identical faces, but different eyes. In what they have seen, in what they reflect upon the world.
This sentence goes way beyond Cutter. If you look at Cotillion/Dancer, Icarium past and present, Crokus/Cutter, Scillara camp vs. Scillara free and pregnant, Bottle before and after the Eres'al and of course Fiddler, this character shift after a certain event in their lives is part of all of them and so they belong together in this chapter.
2) The fragments of shadow
In Cotillion's chapter there are a few hints of the shattering of Emurlahn and what could belong to it:
Faint cries whispered against his ears, as if from a great distance, the voice of multitudes drowning.
I assume the drowning sounds would be from the events in House of Chains, when the water from the Nascent drowned the rebels in Raraku.
This reverberating into Shadow shows the connection between those two warrens and shows that both are still somehow in tune with each other.
Cotillion halted and glanced back, studying the upended trees lining the avenue. „And this manifestation we see here is given to the underworld?“
„In a manner of speaking.“
„Is the overworld manifestation to be found in some other realm? Where one might see an inward-tilting ring of stones, and right-side-up trees?“
Did we see this image before? I can't remember if we are going to see the counterpart, or already saw it, but I'Ll keep looking for it.
3) Circle of Life theme again
Edgewalker also wanted to add to the theme of the circle we encountered in the prologue and chapter 1:
„All patterns are known to men for they have been played out countless times before.“
4) There shall be dragons
Again, this is Edgewalker talking to Cotillion:
„You suspect, do you not, that dragons are at the heart of all that will come?“
So dragons seem to be an important part of the story and it doesn't seem sure on which side?
Or maybe on both, cause it seems that there is a rift between pure Eleint and Soletaken Eleint.
5) Fragments
We already talked about the fragments of Kurald Emurlahn, but I'm beginning to think that fragments and being fragmented instead of whole is another theme of the book, perhaps of the series.
Remember the prologue. We spoke about the seven-part fragmented soul of Dejim and the possible splitted soul of Dissembelackis into the Deragoth.
In chapter one, we are reminded of Karsa's tatoo, which also seems to represent fragments and splinters.
Therefore I found quite interesting how Mappo described Icarium in this chapter:
Icarium. My crystal.
If you will, a crystal is made up of multiple fragments and his shattered memory seems to fit the theme as well...(view spoiler)
And the theme continues through the chapter. The next mentioning is from Cutter's perspective, regarding Heboric:
Oh, Heboric carried curses, the barbs of a tiger on his skin, the benediction of a god of war, and those voices in his head might well be real. Even so, break a man's spirit enough times...
6) Alice Cooper
Scillara assess herself and makes a statement that might be interpreted as going beyond herself:
Well, poisons do linger. I may be...unpalatable.
One one level this is again related to 1). I guess all the protagonists in this chapter feel like that, being poisoned by their past and therefore need to hide their scars infront of others, remove themselves from their company.
And if you really want to stretch it, you can see the CG in there too. He is the big poison that lingers, since he was brought into this world and the world isn't able to digest him and is slowly dying because of it.
7) A Toll the Hounds spoilery smiley thingy
(view spoiler)
8) ???
(view spoiler)
So, that's it for now. Look in the mirror and see if you changed, don't fragment your mind too much over this chapter and have a happy meal with your fellow Bridgeburners.
See you next chapter!
Rob wrote:So QB was briefly running around as a High Mage before, presumably this was for the previous Emperor and not Laseen.I'm not so sure, it was for the Emperor. As the conversation continues, it seems that QB tricked everyone in believing just that at the time. First sentence is Tayschrenn, second QB:
„And the Emperor knew this? He must have, having sent you – unless, of course, he didn't sent you at all.“
„Well, granted, there were some improprieties involved, and had one set out on that particular trail they might well have been noted.“
Mod
@Mpauli - That's probably a better explanation of what happened.
Mod
Ok.... about the dragons! Were they bluffing when claiming to "own" their aspects? The third dragon (the chick):
"I leave the grandiose claims to my kin. I have no need to impress you, Usurper. Furthermore, I delight on discovering how little you comprehend."
... agan theyy were full of it when claiming to be the "flavours" of each warren they call ther own?
God! This SE its going to give me a fuckiing aneurism!! I can't wrap mah head around so much stuff? Who do I trust to be telling the truth!?
The Crimson Fucker wrote: "Ok.... about the dragons! Were they bluffing when claiming to "own" their aspects?"I tend towards thinking that they're telling the truth. I guess this information itself (Warrens being shaped by the blood of Dragons) is too important for SE to toy with us.
I took the comment of the third dragon as having 2 purposes:
a) Just a bit of character diversity. It's easier to distinguish the three dragons, if you remember "Ah, that's the one that didn't boast, right."
b) Suspense. For me it will be fun to look for clues now and see, if I can find out what warren the third dragon is related too.
Mod
There is so much world building stuff in this chapter.
So the three dragons plus a couple
Eloth - Meanas, Mockra, Thyr
Ampelas - Kurald Emurlahn
Kalse - Unknown
Silanah - Thyr
Otataral dragon - not aspected to a warren - antimagic - Chaos???
Interesting to note that Silanah was petitioned by Olar Ethil(the undead Imass soletaken dragon from DG) to fashion the Tellan warren
...Silanah—’
‘Seduced by Anomandaris’s charms,’ snapped Eloth. ‘And Olar Ethil’s endless pleadings ...’
‘To bring fire to the world of the Imass,’ Cotillion said. ‘For that is her aspect, is it not? Thyr?’
No wonder K'rul wanted these guys to stay put in the dragon warren - with dragons creating warrens left right and centre the distinction between the warrens starts getting blurred.
There was originally Kurald Emurlahn which is then watered down into Meanas and Rashan. Kurald Thyrllan which then has Thyr and Tellan as spinoffs - things could easily get out of hand.
Mod
(view spoiler)
message 15:
by
Lee, High Priest of Shadow
(last edited Aug 01, 2013 01:10AM)
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rated it 4 stars
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‘Tilt head, query. Black? Dreaded reply, why yes, they were. Black. Rhetorical, was that significant?’
and this cracked me up:
Cutter looked down at the squatting demon. ‘Scillara and Felisin are not horses.’
Greyfrog’s large eyes blinked slowly, first the two side-by-side, then the pair above and below. Tongue darted. ‘Blithe. Of course not. Insufficient number of legs, worthily observed.’
It is hard not to like him, then he goes and jumps up and bits someones face off and sucks out there brains.
Speaking of Scillara, I doubt she'll be snapped up by the Seven Cities branch of Mother Care with this:
A child. What would she do with it? What would it expect of her? What was it mothers did anyway? Sell their babies, mostly. To temples, to slavers, to the harem merchants if it’s a girl. Or keep it and teach it to beg. Steal. Sell its body. This, born of sketchy observations and the stories told by the waifs of Sha’ik’s encampment. Meaning, a child was an investment of sorts, which made sense. A return on nine months of misery and discomfort.
She supposed she could do something like that. Sell it. Assuming she let it live that long.
David Sven wrote: "I think the claims by the dragons were "grandiose" not because they were false so much but maybe they were overstating there role or importance and because they were boastful and had an air of enti..."Somewhere or other we heard that the T'lan Imass stole fire from the Eres'al. So maybe Silanah was the one who did the stealing? The Imass's Prometheus.
Iskaral and Shadowthrone were hilarious. Didn't somebody wonder a few books ago what Iskaral praying would be like? Maybe now we know.
Silvio wrote: Iskaral and Shadowthrone were hilarious. Didn't somebody wonder a few books ago what Iskaral praying would be like? Maybe now we know. .."I maintain that Iskaral Pust has the funniest line in the entire series, and I believe it is in this book.
Mod
According to Feather Witch.
Her breath caught. ‘The Beast Hold.’
He glanced at her. ‘What?’
‘The Bone Perch. Elder, Crone, Seer, Shaman, Hunter and Tracker. The Stealers of Fire. Stolen from the Eres’al.’
But the context is a little unclear. It could mean that the gift of a fire warren should have rightfully gone to the Eres'al instead of the Imass? Though that may be crediting Feather Witch with too much knowledge - the Letherii view of the warrens and holds was rather stunted.
I think exactly that, Letheri knowledge is stunted.While dragons may exaggerate I think there is truth here about a dragon being aspected to a specific warren. But their continuing presence would cause chaos to seep in, I always think of the Eleint coming from chaos itself. Yet their magic creates, so creation is order made from chaos. K'rull is quite the magician.
Lee - ha about Olar spoiler, great connection!
All in all my mouth is still hanging open with some drool sliding down from all the info here that I missed before! I was understanding everything! I'm now pretty convinced about Edgewater's ID. He is an elemental force which we learn are what the elder gods are.
Fascinating stuff about StRvald Demerlain, the shattering, and Scarabandis. I'm developing some theories about the FoD series, but they are germinating and not quite ready for words.
Oh, and am just loving Greyfrog!!!I feel for Apsalar. What a difference between her and Felisin. Instead of lashing out, Apsalar is wise in her compassion, she sees the horror but accepts her actions as necessary.
Lori (Hellian) wrote: "Oh, and am just loving Greyfrog!!!I feel for Apsalar. What a difference between her and Felisin. Instead of lashing out, Apsalar is wise in her compassion, she sees the horror but accepts her act..."
I agree, Apsalar is an anti-Felisin. I'd like to know more about how she feels, now, about Cotillion possessing her. And how Cotillion feels about it, for that matter.
David Sven wrote: "Silvio wrote: "Somewhere or other we heard that the T'lan Imass stole fire from the Eres'al. So maybe Silanah was the one who did the stealing? The Imass's Prometheus."
According to Feather Witch...."
Yeah, that has to be the passage I was thinking of. And no, Letherii religion wouldn't be a reliable source of information. I'm guessing what Feather Witch says is based on truth, but who knows how it's been distorted? Aagh, more mysteries!
Mod
Very happy to have Quick Ben back in this book, things always get interesting when he's around. Poor Bottle has to keep his bug-listening eavesdropping under wraps now though. If Quick turned over a rock and found Bottle under it, there'd be Hood to pay.
Hee love it.
Trying to imagine what an Otataral dragon might do to the warrens. Nothing good. Maybe that's why he was nailed to the wall.
Firstly – the biggie – While the warrens are K’rul’s body and blood – it is the dragons magic that focused that bloods power and shaped it into usable warrens. As such, there exists a dragon for every warrenThis is really a major revelation regarding the warren system, so we have each dragon aspect ed for each warren.so t his brings me to the question is mother dark also a dragon ??.
We had Icarium wounding the warren when he tried to release his father Gothos
But it is mentioned that shadow i.e kurald emruhaln does not have a Azath aspected to it, so if we assume that wounding of azath in turn wounded the warren but this contradicts my first statement.
And then Rake turns up – Scabandari was already dead at that stage but Rake was able to flush the realm of any remaining Edur and chained down the three dragons where they are today and hid the Throne of Shadow away on Drift Avali. How is that for speculation!
But rake came when silchas ruin was tabbed in the back by scabandari, and we don't have any references of dragons over there so maybe this happened sometimes afterwards.Also i thought rake did not flush out the tiste edur but gothos sealed the whole mess up in ice.
Faint cries whispered against his ears, as if from a great distance, the voice of multitudes drowning.
I assume the drowning sounds would be from the events in House of Chains, when the water from the Nascent drowned the rebels in Raraku.
I don't think the timeline is correct for this because the nascent relam is already flooded in MOI when Felsin,Herboric and buiker are on silanda and are transported to rakaru and this books starts 24 days after the death of shaik which is clearly there so I don't think those cries were of people getting flooded in nascent realm.
Also as we have 5 and 7 theory going on, can there be 5 or 7 parts of kurald emruhaln?
also edgewalker right now seems someone who present in shadow realm for all the important events, if he is meddling in its affairs or not don't know about that.
also what i am loving about this books is that I am able to read the maps more clearly and so able to place people properly at their given geographical locations.
Mod
I think this was referring specifically to the human accessible warren of Shadow(Shadowthrone's realm)- Not the Elder warren of Shadow ie Kurald Emurlahn.
Really enjoyed this chapter. The whole conversation between Cotillion and the dragons was fascinating.Greyfrog is hilarious. I'm a huge Mass Effect fan/nerd and his dialogue reminds me of elcor. They always say what feeling their words are supposed to have because they can't inflect. For example:
Shepard: "What if you and I make a deal? You let him set his own prices, and I won’t break your legs."
Harrot: "With barely contained terror: You drive a hard bargain, human."
Shepard: "I haven’t even started."
Can someone clear this up for me because I can't remember: How did Cutter end up with Heboric, Greyfrog, Scillara ,and Felisin the Younger? It's been a while since I read HoC and in between I loaded my brain with The Commonwealth Saga.
Mod
Cotillion sent him on that mission - more as a way to get him out of the hard core action as a favor to Apsalar
Oh okay. I vaguely remember now.
Yes! Bridgeburners in the house! Loving this book so far. Nice mix between lots of old characters and some new ones. The witch of Ugurat, Kalams brother/father/cousin/insert other male family member.Very curious about what the books title will mean, bonehunters... Getting a sort of Bridgeburners 2.0 feel from it. Or it might be another cool mercenary company. Or the new ascendant chess club. Who knows...
Mod
Mod
Chapter two....OK if the book is this good already and can maintain it and then have a DHG or MOI ending it will be the best ever. (view spoiler)
First time reader here, late to the party.Apart from all that was mentioned, this bit about Edgewalker stood out to me. Did I just forget we already knew that?
When Cotillion talks to the dragons, we get this:
'Which brings me to what I truly need to understand.
The Elder Gods. They are not simply of one world, are
they?'
'Of course not.'
'And how long have they been around?'
'Even when darkness ruled alone,' Ampelas replied, 'there
were elemental forces. Moving unseen until the coming of Light.
Bound only to their own laws. It is the nature of Darkness that
it but rules itself.'
And then, when he and Edgewalker walk away:
'That would mean more to me if I knew who - what -
you are.'
'You may consider me ... an elemental force.'
Gives quite the credibility - if you believe it - to his lamenting of having seen it all before.
