The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of September 23rd - September 29th, we are reading Chapter Fourteen of The Metaphysical Club.

Our motto at The History Book Club is that it is never too late to begin a book. We are with you the entire way.

The fourteenth week's reading assignment is:

Week Fourteen - September 23rd - September 29th
Part Five -Chapter Fourteen
Pluralisms (377 - 408)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on June 26th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon and Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle. Make sure to pre-order now if you haven't already. Please also patronage your local book stores.

This weekly thread will be opened up on September 23rd.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bentley will be leading this discussion. Assisting Moderator Kathy will be the back up.

Welcome,

~Bentley


TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Louis Menand


REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Glossary - SPOILER THREAD

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Bibliography - SPOILER THREAD

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please. And please do not place long list of books on the discussion threads. Please add to the bibliography thread where we love to peruse all entries. Make sure you properly cite your additions to make it easier for all.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Table of Contents and Syllabus:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

by Louis Menand

Welcome folks to the discussion of The Metaphysical Club.

Message One - on each non spoiler thread - will help you find all of the information that you need for each week's reading.

For Week Fourteen - for example, we are reading and discussing the following:

Week Fourteen - September 23rd - September 29th
Part Five -Chapter Fourteen
Pluralisms (377 - 408)

Please only discuss Chapter Fourteen through page 408 on this thread. However from now on you can also discuss any of the pages that came before this week's reading - including anything in the Preface or Introduction or anything in Chapter One through Chapter Thirteen. However the main focus of this week's discussion is Chapter Fourteen.

This is a non spoiler thread.

But we will have in this folder a whole bunch of spoiler threads dedicated to all of the pragmatists or other philosophers or philosophic movements which I will set up as we read along and on any of the additional spoiler threads - expansive discussions about each of the pragmatists/philosophers/philosophic movements can also take place on any of these respective threads. Spoiler threads are also clearly marked.

If you have any links, or ancillary information about anything dealing with the book itself feel free to add this to our Glossary thread.

If you have lists of books or any related books about the people discussed, or about the events or places discussed or any other ancillary information - please feel free to add all of this to the thread called - Bibliography.

If you would like to plan ahead and wonder what the syllabus is for the reading, please refer to the Table of Contents.

If you would like to write your review of the book and present your final thoughts because maybe you like to read ahead - the spoiler thread where you can do all of that is called Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts. You can also have expansive discussions there.

For all of the above - the links are always provided in message one.

Always go to message one of any thread to find out all of the important information you need.

Bentley will be moderating this book and Kathy will be the backup.

Make sure that you are familiar with the HBC's rules and guidelines and what is allowed on goodreads and HBC in terms of user content. Also, there is no self promotion, spam or marketing allowed.

Here are the rules and guidelines of the HBC:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...

Please on the non spoiler threads: a) Stick to material in the present week's reading.

Also, in terms of all of the threads for discussion here and on the HBC - please be civil.

We want our discussion to be interesting and fun.

Make sure to cite a book using the proper format.

You don't need to cite the Menand book, but if you bring another book into the conversation; please cite it accordingly as required.

Now we can begin week fourteen....

Chapter Summaries and Overview

Chapter Fourteen: Pluralisms

Part 2, Chapter 14 - Pluralisms , Section One

Part 2, Chapter 14 - Pluralisms, Section Two

Part 2, Chapter 14 - Pluralisms, Section Three

Most folks want to know right off the bat - what is the title about? Here is a good posting explaining that.

The Metaphysical Club

by John Shook

The Metaphysical Club was an informal discussion group of scholarly friends, close from their associations with Harvard University, that started in 1871 and continued until spring 1879.

This Club had two primary phases, distinguished from each other by the most active participants and the topics pursued.

The first phase of the Metaphysical Club lasted from 1871 until mid-1875, while the second phase existed from early 1876 until spring 1879. The dominant theme of first phase was pragmatism, while idealism dominated the second phase.

Pragmatism - First Phase:

The "pragmatist" first phase of the Metaphysical Club was organized by Charles Peirce (Harvard graduate and occasional lecturer), Chauncey Wright (Harvard graduate and occasional lecturer), and William James (Harvard graduate and instructor of physiology and psychology).

These three philosophers were then formulating recognizably pragmatist views. Other active members of the "Pragmatist" Metaphysical Club were two more Harvard graduates and local lawyers, Nicholas St. John Green and Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., who were also advocating pragmatic views of human conduct and law.

Idealist - Second Phase:

The "idealist" second phase of the Metaphysical Club was organized and led by idealists who showed no interest in pragmatism: Thomas Davidson (independent scholar), George Holmes Howison (professor of philosophy at nearby Massachusetts Institute of Technology), and James Elliot Cabot (Harvard graduate and Emerson scholar). There was some continuity between the two phases.

Although Peirce had departed in April 1875 for a year in Europe, and Wright died in September 1875, most of the original members from the first phase were available for a renewed second phase.

By January 1876 the "Idealist" Metaphysical Club (for James still was referring to a metaphysical club in a letter of 10 February 1876) was meeting regularly for discussions first on Hume, then proceeding through Kant and Hegel in succeeding years.

Besides Davidson, Howison, and Cabot, the most active members appear to be William James, Charles Carroll Everett (Harvard graduate and Dean of its Divinity School), George Herbert Palmer (Harvard graduate and professor of philosophy), and Francis Ellingwood Abbott (Harvard graduate and independent scholar).

Other occasional participants include Francis Bowen (Harvard graduate and professor of philosophy), Nicholas St. John Green, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., and G. Stanley Hall (Harvard graduate and psychologist).

The Metaphysical Club was a nine-year episode within a much broader pattern of informal philosophical discussion that occurred in the Boston area from the 1850s to the 1880s.

Chauncey Wright, renowned in town for his social demeanor and remarkable intelligence, had been a central participant in various philosophy clubs and study groups dating as early as his own college years at Harvard in the early 1850s.

Wright, Peirce, James, and Green were the most active members of the Metaphysical Club from its inception in 1871.

By mid-1875 the original Metaphysical Club was no longer functioning; James was the strongest connection between the first and second phases, helping Thomas Davidson to collect the members of the "Idealist" Metaphysical Club.

Link to the Hegel Club:

James also was a link to the next philosophical club, the "Hegel Club", which began in fall 1880 in connection with George Herbert Palmer's seminar on Hegel. By winter 1881 the Hegel Club had expanded to include several from the Metaphysical Club, including James, Cabot, Everett, Howison, Palmer, Abbott, Hall, and the newcomer William Torrey Harris who had taken up residence in Concord.

This Hegel Club was in many ways a continuation of the St. Louis Hegelian Society from the late 1850s and 1860s, as Harris, Howison, Davidson, and their Hegelian students had moved east.

The Concord Summer School of Philosophy (1879-1888), under the leadership of Amos Bronson Alcott and energized by the Hegelians, soon brought other young American scholars into the orbit of the Cambridge clubs, such as John Dewey.

The "Pragmatist" Metaphysical Club met on irregular occasions, probably fortnightly during the Club's most active period of fall 1871 to winter 1872, and they usually met in the home of Charles Pierce or William James in Cambridge.

This Club met for four years until mid-1875, when their diverse career demands, extended travels to Europe, and early deaths began to disperse them. The heart of the club was the close bonds between five very unusual thinkers on the American intellectual scene.

Chauncey Wright and Charles Sanders Peirce shared the same scientific interests and outlook, having adopted a positivistic and evolutionary stance, and their common love for philosophical discussion sparked the club's beginnings. Wright's old friend and lawyer Nicholas St. John Green was glad to be included, as was Peirce's good friend William James who had also gone down the road towards empiricism and evolutionism. William James brought along his best friend, the lawyer Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., who like Green was mounting a resistance to the legal formalism dominating that era. Green brought fellow lawyer Joseph Bangs Warner, and the group also invited two philosophers who had graduated with them from Harvard, Francis Ellingwood Abbott and John Fiske, who were both interested in evolution and metaphysics.

Other occasional members were Henry Ware Putnam, Francis Greenwood Peabody, and William Pepperell Montague.

Activities of the "Pragmatist" Metaphysical Club were recorded only by Peirce, William James, and William's brother Henry James, who all describe intense and productive debates on many philosophical problems.

Both Peirce and James recalled that the name of the club was the "Metaphysical" Club. Peirce suggests that the name indicated their determination to discuss deep scientific and metaphysical issues despite that era's prevailing positivism and agnosticism. A successful "Metaphysical Club" in London was also not unknown to them. Peirce later stated that the club witnessed the birth of the philosophy of pragmatism in 1871, which he elaborated (without using the term 'pragmatism' itself) in published articles in the late 1870s. His own role as the "father of pragmatism" should not obscure, in Peirce's view, the importance of Nicholas Green. Green should be recognized as pragmatism's "grandfather" because, in Peirce's words, Green had "often urged the importance of applying Alexander Bain's definition of belief as 'that upon which a man is prepared to act,' from which 'pragmatism is scarce more than a corollary'." Chauncey Wright also deserves considerable credit, for as both Peirce and James recall, it was Wright who demanded a phenomenalist and fallibilist empiricism as a vital alternative to rationalistic speculation.

The several lawyers in this club took great interest in evolution, empiricism, and Bain's pragmatic definition of belief.

They were also acquainted with James Stephen's A General View of the Criminal Law in England, which also pragmatically declared that people believe because they must act. At the time of the Metaphysical Club, Green and Holmes were primarily concerned with special problems in determining criminal states of mind and general problems of defining the nature of law in a culturally evolutionary way.

Both Green and Holmes made important advances in the theory of negligence which relied on a pragmatic approach to belief and established a "reasonable person" standard. Holmes went on to explore pragmatic definitions of law that look forward to future judicial consequences rather than to past legislative decisions.
(Source: http://www.pragmatism.org/research/me...)

Discussion Ideas and Themes of the Book

While reading the book - try to take some notes about the ideas presented along the following lines:

1. Science
2. Religion
3. Philosophy
4. Psychology
5. Sociology
6. Evolution
7. Pragmatism

There are very good reasons why this book is not only called The Metaphysical Club but also after the colon: A Story of Ideas in America and the purpose of our discussion of this book is "to discuss those ideas".

Don't just read my posts - but jump right in - the more you post and the more you contribute - the more you will get out of the conversation and the read.

Discussion Ideas:

Remember we are discussing major ideas and events right off the bat:

Ideas:
Metaphysics
Pragmatism
Polygenism
The Metaphysical Club
Natural History
Monogenism
Theory of Recapitulation

Events:
The American Civil War
Ice Age

People:
Louis Agassiz
William James
French Paleontologist, George Cuvier
Prussian Naturalist, Alexander von Humboldt
Abbot Lawrence
Elizabeth Cabot Cary
Samuel George Morton
Josiah Nott
George Gliddon
Samuel Cartwright
Abraham Lincoln
Samuel Gridley Howe

Groups
Twentieth Regiment of Massachusetts Volunteers

Government:
The Constitution
Bill of Rights
Emancipation Proclamation
American Freedman's Inquiry Commission

Places
Harvard
Lawrence Scientific School

Chapter Abstracts - Chapter Fourteen

Chapter abstracts are short descriptions of events that occur in each chapter.

They highlight major plot events and detail the important relationships and characteristics of characters and objects.

The Chapter Abstracts that I will add can be used to review what you have read, and to prepare you for what you will read.

These highlights can be a reading guide or you can use them in your discussion to discuss any of these points. I add them so these bullet points can serve as a "refresher" or a stimulus for further discussion.

Here are a few:

New Abstracts:

Discussion Questions for Chapter Fourteen - think about some of these questions while you are reading:

New Questions:

Some quotes from Chapter Fourteen that might be the basis for discussion. Feel free to do a copy and paste and then post your commentary about each or any of them below. Be civil and respectful and discuss your ideas. Also read what your fellow readers are saying and comment on their posts if you agree or disagree and cite sources that help substantiate your point of view.

reserved

We are opening this up right away so that folks can post.

I love the title of this chapter because it recognizes the differences between the men and their individual ideas. James used the term “Pragmatism," but Dewey liked “Instrumentalism," and Peirce called his ideas “Pragmaticism.” Holmes didn’t use a title so much as the idea in his book, “The Path of Law,” along with the concept of the “reasonable man.”

Pragmatism feels so American - I see FDR and his programs in it as well as other Americans. Pragmatism puts "what works" and "reality" above theory or dogma. It's almost not really a philosophy on it's own - it's a way to look at philosophy or at ideas and solutions, although more contemporary pragmatists may have taken the general ideas further.


by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

Very true Becky - Holmes did not seem to be one for philosophical titles yet he incorporated the ideas.

Excellent post.

This idea of groups only being defined by their relationship to other groups seems pretty good to me. I find it hard to think of an example on how it would be used. Maybe the old saw about "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" or "politics makes for strange bed fellows".

Diversity for the sake of diversity (because it was perceived to provide a better organization ) seemed to be the goal of the company I retired from.
Does this mesh with this philosophy?

I like your analogy Patricrk.

I am not sure about diversity for the sake of diversity providing a better organization but maybe it makes one which becomes more tolerant.

The notion of groups being defined and re-defined by themselves and by other groups has perhaps its greatest relevance in the context of political interest groups. Individuals participate in multiple groups and sometimes the interests of these participating groups are not aligned and make for odd pairings, conflicts and the 'strange bedfellows' cited by Patricrk.

Judging by its internal PR, the company I retired from -- a large multi-national bank -- also advocated 'diversity' and wanted its management team to reflect different nationalities, sexual orientations, ethnicities, ages, etc. The idea was that homogeneity at the top insulates and calcifies corporations, making them less responsive to market changes and data flows, while heterogeneity, with its broader base, predisposes the group to anticipate them. I think this meaning of 'diversity' maps to a description of 'culture' which Menand, in support of Dewey's 'freedom', calls a 'Rubik's Cube of possibilities' (pg. 407), i.e an array of choices in the area of ideas, habits, customs and interests for the individual to cobble together to his/her own liking. Of all the philosophers cited in this chapter, it seems to me Dewey is thinking most like an American; culture for him is not prescriptive, it's fluid and comes with an invitation to be creative. And that's why Mr. Bourne, along with my love of Dickens or Mozart, I'll also take the artifacts of mass culture -- 'the cheap newspaper, the movies, popular song and ...the automobile (pg. 403)' -- thank you very much. It suits me.

Well, finally I feel like we are getting to the meat of the matter. This chapter is a fascinating discussion of the role and function of culture, ethnicity, tradition, and diversity, and brings us smack into the middle of the 21st century and our still unresolved issues with immigration.

The big question in my mind as I finished the chapter was, just how are we to think of ourselves... us 'Americans'? The recovery and renewal of ethnic traditions in America has been increasing since the 60's, at which time the focus turned to Native Americans. In the last decade Hawaiians have been reclaiming their language (and thus their culture), before all trace of their rich tradition disappears.

It occurs to me we should take our lesson from Hawai'i -- made up of Hawaiians, Portugese, Samoans, Japanese, Chinese, Phillipinos, 'Anglo-Saxons', African-Americans, and more that I can't remember -- where the idea was never to be a melting pot, but a good stew where each ingredient remains itself, but adds such flavor to the stew that without it the meal just wouldn't be half so good. Which is what I think Menand was getting at... because what has already happened in Hawai'i is the intermixing of races and cultures like Michener predicted in his book Hawaii, creating a 'golden' people of global heritage.

And now we are closing in on the real topic -- Freedom. I'm looking forward to this.

by James A. Michener

Janice, good suggestion for the next book to read. I've had the novel Hawaii on my TBR list for a while now. I like your idea, it will make a good historical fiction read.

After the last chapter, Menand had me again wondering, "Where will we be headed next." And this chapter has been a great place to go. What an interesting mix of thought we have had to make America.

by James A. Michener