Debate discussion

I'm doing a research project and I'm not going to use you guys as guinea pigs lol
Instead!
I'm asking what you guys think would be the most historically interesting and the pretty much the best and most interesting topic to discuss under the following terms.

The topics: Laws dealing with gay rights. Laws dealing with abortion. Or laws dealing with drug use.

The terms/basically my research question: Should the government allow its citizens to do what they want with their own bodies? (in other words, should the government pass laws that are restrictive to what humans can do, or allow them to do whatever but be protective? Both would include a punishment system).

Thanks for the help guys! :)
((also if you want to debate the sides that helps too lol)

I think that everyone should have the right to choose what they do with their own body. The being said, as you suggested there should be protection for certain things (churches being forced to marry gay couples should not be allowed) but freedoms are a big part of what separates our country from the others.

As far as gay marriage:
They can get married at a courthouse. I don't mind. But don't force the churches to marry them. That would be taking away the church's freedoms to choose as well.

As far as abortion:
Normal abortion (early months of pregnancy) should be allowed. Partial-birth abortion should not be allowed. It's murder to a living child. Perhaps there should be some limits to how many abortions one can have, that way women make better judgments, but in health and life or death situations it shouldn't count towards that number.

As far as drugs:
I don't care what you do in your house on your property with drugs as long as you don't go selling them, you aren't intoxicated in public, and you aren't hurting anyone. Take it off of your property and I think that you should be punished. Otherwise, do whatever, I don't care. It's your life not mine and certainly not the governments.

Gay Marriage should be 100 percent legal, Abortion should be legal in most circumstances, however there should be no partial birth abortions, and all drugs should be legal and be sold and regulated similar to alcohol, the harsher the substance, the more the regulation.

If people can't be trusted to figure out their own bodies, then why do we think the government can do any better?

Gay marriage-totally legal
Abortion-totally illegal
Drugs-regulated, more mild legal (i.e. alcohol, marijuana), more severe illegal (i.e. cocaine, ecstacy)

So, I'm kind of split. With some issues I think the person should have more control, with others I think the gov should step in.

Because the government obviously knows that all abortion is bad for every woman, and the women can't figure that out themselves. They have no idea what's going on, so how they can they pass a blanket judgment?

Gay Marriage:

If the church doesn't want them, than yes they should not marry there, instead go to a church that will accept them. Because this way gay marriage has a much higher percentage of being accepted. But it should by all means be legal.

Abortion:

Legal. An opinion should not be forced into law. So what do we do? We make the law where the person, on their own, and not the government, makes the decision.

Drugs:

Again, opinion does not equal law.

What gives any religious organization the right to willfully discriminate against a whole class of people?

Lauren wrote: "What gives any religious organization the right to willfully discriminate against a whole class of people? "

Their heads being so far up their asses that they can look down and see their chest.

That means they went out the esophagus, and are back where they started.

Jayda wrote: "I think that everyone should have the right to choose what they do with their own body. The being said, as you suggested there should be protection for certain things (churches being forced to marr..."

WOAH!! When did Jayda get so liberal?

I think you should be able to do as you please with your own body, so long as you don't harm others. So, all three of those should be legal.

She's always been libertarian but also mormon, so there was a mix.

oh wow! thx a lot guys im going to read through all of them right now (wow i missed a lot! lol)

"As far as gay marriage:
They can get married at a courthouse. I don't mind. But don't force the churches to marry them. That would be taking away the church's freedoms to choose as well. "

Jayda, you make a great point. I totally agree, the churches shouldn't be forced into marrying a gay couple, however I do think that if they wanted to, they should be allowed to.

I am very pleased that people agree about the drug use!
Dave, that's exactly what I was thinking too! Have the laws for drugs be the same as they are with alcohol.

Oh! That's so interesting, Lauren I never thought of it like that! Yeah well I guess people assume that with our checks and balances system that the government should be able to make the choices for us. But still... they're only human.

Ahahah I admit I was a little surprised by Jayda's remarks, but still I'm glad to know that someone who considers themselves conservative (am I right?? lol) has the same belief :)

<3

ok well... this is all well and good, but I'm going to have to figure out what people think if they were to go against all of this. as in... if they don't believe it should be up to the people to decide.

...what do you all think is the most interesting topic to do a research project on??
im kinda thinking the drug thing because personally out of all three of those topics, that one seems to have the highest potential interest level, and could prove more educational because honestly I don't here to much about that (jailing due to drug use and the drug laws, etc,...)

Protective laws!

Lauren wrote: "What gives any religious organization the right to willfully discriminate against a whole class of people? "

What gives the government the right to tell the church how to run itself? That would be taking away the church's freedoms to choose. Of course there will be churches allowing gay marraige, but don't force the churches that don't want it to perform it. It would be like telling all churches to preach that God doesn't exist because some of America wants that to happen. It would be against what they believe and want and think is right.

Fine, whatever, does that mean I can yell at those churches and call them homophobic now? I feel like that would be nice.

You can if you want. You have the freedom of speech. It doesn't mean that it'll change anything, but go ahead.

"What gives the government the right to tell the church how to run itself? That would be taking away the church's freedoms to choose."

So, my business, I choose to not allow Mormons to have jobs there. Who is the government to tell me what to do? NO ONE has a right to discriminate, not schools, not churches, not the government, no one.

I swear that I will respond. I'm doing my research to make sure that what I think is right, is in fact correct so that some people will be happy :)

lol

Lauren wrote: ""What gives the government the right to tell the church how to run itself? That would be taking away the church's freedoms to choose."

So, my business, I choose to not allow Mormons to have jobs t..."

ahha you both have excellent points.
if you dont want gay marriage in your church, who should tell you otherwise?
but then again, who should allow you to not allow mormons in your business?

they are both discrimination. actually it's really funny that anyone can attempt to fight discrimination when they have their own anyway (fight against discrimination for Jews but not allow gay marriage in your church)

still. they're great points...

I'm still looking that stuff up Lauren. If this guy I know will just reply to my email it would be rather helpful x.x

My basic point is, there's gay rights, and there's religious freedom. Technically speaking if you legalize gay marriage it wouldn't be discrimination and removing their rights anymore because no matter what they could get married at a courthouse and have the exact same legal rights as married couples. But if you force religions to cater to beliefs that they don't agree with and have, or to what some of America wants (whereas that will certainly be ones that will let them enter and marry freely) it's going against religious freedoms. I don't see how saying no to marriage in one church would go against gay rights. They can find another church, one that is completely willing. There will be some out there, I can promise that much, because they don't want to be ridiculed by the nation.

Religious freedom is not extended to the point where it interferes with human rights.

Like how we force racist people to cater to our beliefs in equality.

It's a catch 22.
Let's say, that a gay person really wants to be married in a particular church. Who is the government to stop them?
That church doesn't want to marry them. Who is the government to stop them?

It's not the government trying to stop them, it's religion bending the government.

And human rights trump everything.

Can someone explain this to me?

The government is bending to the will of religion on the issue of gay marriage. There is no logical reason to deny gays the right to marry. The only reason that has ever been given is the equivalent of "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." And some people don't think that the government should be allowed to force religion to accpet basic human rights.

Lauren wrote: "Religious freedom is not extended to the point where it interferes with human rights.

Like how we force racist people to cater to our beliefs in equality. "

but then we shouldn't do that
which brings me back to my point, let them do what they want, but when it becomes dangerous, then let the government step in

ANY violation of human rights is a danger.

Them standing up for what they believe isn't harming anyone, Lauren, it's just offending a group of people and their defenders who take things too personally.

If it was about Mormons and not gays, would you be singing that tune? It's like saying atheists are only banned in 6 states from public office. ONLY 6. It's not just offensive, it's sowing hate and intolerance for an entire groups of people.

But we're not talking about Mormons, we're talking about gays. They'd be married by law and have the exact same rights as couples who are married in a church. If you denied Mormons marriage that would be denying them marriage in general, not just one side of it.

And I don't agree with that law in six states. I think it's prejudice and is denying them a full right. Allowing homosexuals to marry in a courthouse is giving them the right they want - marriage to have legal benefits and the ceremony to show their love for one another.

So, we're confining all of our bigotry to religion? Cause that's the only place it can survive.

Plus, it is the same thing, as any form of gay unions only exist in about 6 or 7 states. Everywhere else, nothing. Same as banning all Mormons.

Hmm, in that case can I ban Mormons from my store (that I have in lalaland, lol). They'd be able to shop elsewhere, I just personally am against them.

You can ban Mormons from your store, Marley, if it's a private business. If it's private you can ban whomever you wish because it's your property, not the public's property. Now, if it's a store like Wal-Mart that would be against the law.

Not all religions or churches would deny gay marriage in their buildings, Lauren! That's what I keep trying to say. There would be churches who allow it. Let them allow it, but don't force them to allow it. And until all states allow it, the unions will only exist in those states. I can't help that, you can't help that.

How many, exactly? Certainly not the Evangelists, not the Catholics.

How would I know? Certainly smaller churches would allow it considering they might want more members (but I wouldn't say that all of them would, either) and other religions possibly. Certainly not Mormons, but that's because God says in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong, which is why some religions wouldn't allow it in their churches. They follow God, and God doesn't like homosexuality, so why should they like or believe in something that God doesn't believe in?

But, undeniably there will be churches out there who allow it. Look at the states who allow homosexual marriage and see how many churches allow it. I haven't seen the statistics, and it probably would alos depend on the state and the churches within that state, but that can give you a guesstimation.

I looked it up and here was some of what I found (though I'll probably be doing more research) on which religions would and do allow homosexual marriage, unions, and blessings.

Most Unitarian Universalist, some Episcopal, some Baptist, all Metropolitan Community Church, and (I believe) even a few Methodist, Lutheran and Presbyterian.

I is so banning mormons from my future stores, lol.

Have fun with that :) Just make sure that your stores are all on private property, that way it isn't against the law.

Of course, how would you know for certain that someone is a Mormon?

Hehe, anything I want to say at this point would be inapropriate.

Than it's a good thing you didn't say it, I suppose ^^

Mmmmhhmmm, trying hard not to...

You're doing great, Marley =P

I think I'm going to burst though! lol, I still don't like yall, but I can't say what I'm thinking.