Jane Austen discussion

Is there any one reading Mansfield Park or Pride and Prejudice? ...looking up for a discussion!!

Too funny, Karishma; I just asked another reader on another topic what she thought about Mansfield Park herself. I'm a couple of chapters into a re-read, and I'd love to discuss!

I never really liked the adaption with Billie Piper. Jonny and Frances are much better.

I'm watching the '83 BBC version as I'm reading and I'm really liking it because it is so faithful to the book! Really haven't cared for the "newer" versions at all. I know I detested the Billie Piper one, not even sure I finished it!

I LOVE THAT ONE!!!! :D ISN'T FRANCES O'CONNOR PERFECT?!

Yes the Frances O'Connor/Johnny Lee Miller version is lovely. Probably one of my favourite Austen adaptations after the Colin Firth P & P.

*Bites down hard on lip and remains silent so that she doesn't upset everyone by saying how much she hates that version*

I was just waiting for you there Louise ;)

LOL I wouldn't want to disappoint you Soph. ;o)

I like the '83 MP best but it still needs a really good version to be made.

:P

There does need to be one made! BBC next series please, Mansfield Park.

Right! And don't mess it up, BBC, or we'll all go Princess on you (family joke: we had this dog named Princess who was really mellow until you messed with her Jane Austen.... No, wait, that's me...)

Ahaha!! ;)

Karlyne wrote: "Too funny, Karishma; I just asked another reader on another topic what she thought about Mansfield Park herself. I'm a couple of chapters into a re-read, and I'd love to discuss!"
So tell me how are things at your mansfield park?and how do you like Fanny Price as a chaacter?

I think MP is my favorite Austen book. Am I alone in that?

I'm about to reread all the others; just read Mansfield Park finally for the first time. Curious to see now that I'm a bit older how I think they all compare. I don't know if Mansfield is my favorite, but I definitely think it's wonderfully constructed and written and I love the themes and the way the various characters fit into those themes. Although the ending fell flat for me; such a long building climax and then such a simple, quiet solution to everything.

I love the way a poor desolated girl is depicted!

Yeah I thought her depiction extremely realistic and felt really brought back to being that age and that innocent and having those kinds of tortuous feelings.

Holly wrote: Although the ending fell flat for me; such a long building climax and then such a simple, quiet solution to everything.

I feel that way about many of JA's endings. It feels like she decided at some point she wanted to end the book and rushed to tidy up everything. Writers do this frequently, not just her, but I noticed it on my recent round of rereads.

I felt the Mansfield park felt rushed and possibly the solution between Marianne and Col Brandon but otherwise I don't think they seem that rushed. Which were you referring to?

Just a side thought: is Mrs. Norris the nastiest woman in Austen?

Here's a funny little bit: is it possible to look at a house and know that it is the "residence of a man of education, taste, modern manners and good connexions"?

What we usually see when we look at a house is wealth -- or poverty.

Karlyne wrote: "Here's a funny little bit: is it possible to look at a house and know that it is the "residence of a man of education, taste, modern manners and good connexions"?

What we usually see when we loo..."

I think you can make some progress there if you approach it like Sherlock Holmes! Education: how up-to-date is the library? Is it covered with dust or is it well used? Taste should be obvious and modernity, too. Connexions: are there calling cards left by important callers?

But I agree. Most people are judged on the basis of their possessions. Instead we need to go back to Persuasion, and consider the distinction between good company and the best company.

Well in Pride and Prejudice Lady Catherine's house is grand, imposing and has an unnatural feel, reflecting her character and then when we get to Pemberley Lizzy couldn't believe that there was a place where nature had done more as the house was very understated and not at all pretentious, which also reflects Darcy's true nature. So I think you can tell a lot about a person. On the outside just how rich they are but then, if you look closer, something about what the owner of the house is like.

Haha, Victoria, I'm checking my front door for calling cards left by important callers!

Good point, Soph, about nature around a house telling us a lot about the interior. I'm always drawn to houses that have warm, inviting exteriors- flowers, trees, charm even. The typical American lawn with a few well-manicured foundation plantings doesn't make me want to get to know the owner better!

So maybe there is a way to tell who a house belongs to!

I'm off to dust my library!

Artificial gardens have no appeal to me!

You'd crack up if you could see some of the garden "art" in my little town. Beyond gnomes and artificial flowers! In a way, they're sometimes so ugly that they're cute. But I wouldn't want to live there...

I can imagine. Natural and untamed all the way for me!

I prefer calling my weed patch "natural and untamed". And some of my weeds are very pretty...

Exactly ;)

Karlyne wrote: "You'd crack up if you could see some of the garden "art" in my little town. Beyond gnomes and artificial flowers!..."

In my little town, it's WAY beyond!!

I like to think that we have character...

There's character ... And then there's character! lol

Karlyne wrote: "I prefer calling my weed patch "natural and untamed". And some of my weeds are very pretty..."

There's a movie - "Undertaking Betty" is the American title; "Plots with a View" is another title - where there is a young boy who was hired to do gardening. But he isn't very good because he doesn't have the heart to pull up the weeds.

THAT'S ME! I'm always so afraid that it might be something pretty that I leave them too long. I even have trouble thinning carrots because I can't bear to pull them up and toss them aside. I'm afraid my house just doesn't look as though a gentlewoman lives here...

In this blog post I wrote a while ago I talk about the topic of locations and houses reflecting their owners characters... (It is from Pride and Prejudice rather than Mansfield Park, but on the same topic!)
http://laughingwithlizzie.blogspot.co...
:) In case anyone was interested :)

Karlyne wrote: "THAT'S ME! I'm always so afraid that it might be something pretty that I leave them too long. I even have trouble thinning carrots because I can't bear to pull them up and toss them aside. I'm afr..."

a lot of weeds are very pretty anyway!

Soph wrote: "In this blog post I wrote a while ago I talk about the topic of locations and houses reflecting their owners characters... (It is from Pride and Prejudice rather than Mansfield Park, but on the sam..."

You're so right, Soph! Of course a house (or a mansion) reflects upon who lives in it, and Pemberley and Rosings are the perfect example of that truth. Now I reeeeealy have to go prune the roses...

I should prune my roses as well... thinking about it!

And then we could bring the roses in for a lovely bouquet and stun everyone with our elegance and good taste!

That sounds like a good plan! :)

We have an incredible garden- overgrown & wild. Full of plants. Always blooming. If any space- we add more plants.

I just watched the second episode of the '83 Mansfield Park, and I'm surprised at how entire speeches are lifted from the book and yet how different their meanings seem when spoken. When I read of Edmund's vexation at his mother and aunt for making Fanny cut roses (a garden reference again!) and then having her walk twice to her aunt's house in the extreme heat, I hear him as mildly annoyed. But watching and listening to him, he is quite angry - both at them for being so inconsiderate and at himself for allowing his partiality for Miss Crawford's riding to interfere with Fanny's health. It is easier to see how much he does care for Fanny in the film, even though he still feels it as the love of a cousin and not a lover.

I'm reading a book of critiques of Austen's books, and he talks a lot at the start of Mansfield Park section about slavery and their business in Antigua. He refers to it as if all readers figured it out, but I didn't and never thought twice about "the business in Antigua" until I saw one of the movies that included something about it--Tom's drawings of slaves being whipped and such. I'm going to reread MP, and pay attention to this, but I wonder if others knew the family fortunes were based on owning slaves for their business, and Antigua was a horribly brutal place.

What book is that? (I am looking for some literary critics to read of Austen's books, highly regarded ones preferable (also to use in my project as well))

When Sir Thomas comes back, Fanny asks him about the slave trade, so it is hinted at. Many British fortunes were built off of slavery or from other brutalities in other colonies such as India. Even the naval "taking of a prize" meant that you had captured the goods from another ship - the spoils of war - and how Captain Wentworth made his fortune in Persuasion. Yet that has always been the way of the world.

I wonder if Tom the son was at all affected by what he saw - and if that is why he engaged in such dissipation when he returned.

There are references to slavery in Emma, too. Mrs. Elton mentions that Mr. Suckling was a friend to the abolitionists - clear evidence that slavery was no longer condoned by the English.

Victoria_Grossack wrote: "When Sir Thomas comes back, Fanny asks him about the slave trade, so it is hinted at. Many British fortunes were built off of slavery or from other brutalities in other colonies such as India. Ev..."

And, if even Mrs. Elton knew that slavery was wrong (or at least that abolitionists were worthy), well! there's hope for the world!

Yes, even Mrs. Elton acknowledged that slavery was wrong!

Slavery in the U.K. has an interesting (under-statement there) history; the Slave Trade Act of 1807 abolished the slave trade, but it wasn't until 1833 that slavery itself was abolished and in 1834 the slaves emancipated. I wonder how Jane herself was affected; have you ever read anything about that, Victoria?

No, I haven't; I only know the references that she makes in her novels. I have to imagine that she was not personally involved with this at all, but she may have heard the topic discussed by her sea-faring brothers.

I wonder, since her father was Church of England and not a radical Quaker or dissenter, how the whole family felt about it? (There were cases of C of E clergy being slave owners) I agree that she was probably not personally involved, because she didn't belong to a wealthy enough family or one who was deported into slavery (Did you know that the Irish were often deported to the Caribbean? I didn't!)