Debate discussion

what is god? thoughts.

God is The Father, Son, And Holy Spirit. God is yours. You are God's. God is forgiving. God is loving. God is all you need. God is heaven. God is Lord. God is the Word. In other words, God is LIFE.

who says?

sorry about the whole stoic comments, but i learned in school about socrates way of discussing philosophy and i want to try it out.

God is just that, a God, and our Father. He's the Father of Jesus Christ, His only Begotten SON. They're two separate beings.

It seems like a big waste of time and pain to mess up humanity, then send a son to be killed and die, then come back to life, when it all could have been done in an instant. In fact, if he was actually a good designer, why would his creations need to be exterminated, twice?

Mess up humanity? Oh no, my dear Lauren, humanity messed up itself.

Jesus Christ offered himself, first of all, and the atonement couldn't be done in a second because he had to suffer for the sins and pains of the world, past, present, and future (which meant it would take a while) and had to die for all of humanity in order to conquer death. If he hadn't died and been resurrected than death would not have been conquered physically.

There were two parts to the atonement: to overcome spiritual and physical death. From the time that Gethsemane began to his suffering on the cross was conquering spiritual death. From the moment he died to the moment he was resurrected physical death was conquered. Make sense?

I don't understand the last question.

Well, he basically screwed up the first time, because Eve was trapped in a setup, and then God wasn't paying too much attention and let the world screw itself up, then the whole "ark" business. He can't seem to make a human with free will and goodness at the same time. Pretty bad for someone who can do EVERYTHING.

If they have free-will He isn't allowed to force them to do anything. They can do anything they want, we can do whatever we want and He isn't allowed to stop us. It's an eternal law that He created, which means that if He broke it He would cease to be God.

Doesn't seem like much of a God, if some other dude is making rules for him.

Who's making rules for God? I said that God created those rules, not someone else...

A giant electron...

But, why would an omnipotent being need rules? Does he lack self-control?

That's the key question isn't it. Why would an omnipotent and omniscient entity ever bother to do anything? For him, everything that transpires is known to him, before, after and today. Even in the instance of multiple dimensions where every single action and reaction is played out, he is the creator of this reality and knows this also. Why bother doing it? To test humankind some will say? Why, if he already knows the consequences? Why throw the dice if you already know the numbers? If our existence is owed to the whim of some entity, then I can believe that, but don't try and convince me to worship it. That being is a slave to time, space and evolution just like the rest of us, only he is further along the road.

Perhaps he has a sadistic personality, watching humanity suffer, and knowing all of that would happen before any of them were born.

Again he is just a giant electron :D

((Oh yeah Lauren I updated Siren))

:)

Jayda wrote: "If they have free-will He isn't allowed to force them to do anything. They can do anything they want, we can do whatever we want and He isn't allowed to stop us. It's an eternal law that He created..."

what the hell??? if he is all powerful, he can do whatever the frick he wants! that comment goes against everything you have been debating!

Lauren wrote: "But, why would an omnipotent being need rules? Does he lack self-control? "

WE lack self-control. He created the rule FOR US (to give us the freedom to choose between right and wrong) and He can't interfere with that rule. Otherwise he would cease to be God because it is an eternal law.

Emma - I don't quite understand what you mean by that or what your problem is...

you said he cannot force us to do anything, but you have also said he is all powerful and that is how he created the world. those comments are going against each other.

Not really. He created an eternal law that gives us the freedom to choose. Because He created that law He can't just force us to do things. That would be going against His law and He would cease to be God. Because if He doesn't obey His own laws than why should we?

God IS all powerful. He just can't force us to do things because of our free-will.

Make sense now?

uhhh most of us DONT obey his laws. in fact, the majority of people dont.

if he is all knowing and sees the crap pile that we are heading towards, why doesnt he send us a dream to open our eyes to other options that will help us out?

if he did it for noa, he could do it for one of us.

So, you kill people? You lust after your neighbor's husband? You steal? Most of us follow God's basic rules - the 10 commandments. They're basic morals, things that are obvious. So what you said is completely false.

Would YOU seriously believe a dream of God telling you to stop? Most wouldn't. Would you believe that somehow managing to stay alive after a deadly wreck is a sign? Some wouldn't. I would, but some wouldn't. People sadly don't seem to see the miracles nowadays.

He created a natural disaster, He didn't strike them all down and force them to repent. He'd had His prophet tell them over and over again and when they didn't listen and continued to be terribly wicked He created a natural disaster to wipe out the population of the earth. God didn't build the ark FOR Noah, He guided Him. God doesn't force us to do anything, He guides us and hopes for the best.

no i dont specifically, but a lot of people commit adultery and kill and steal. lots of people.

yeah i know sorry maybe i worded it funny but i meant why can't god send one of us a dream about what is going to happen and how to save us?

But not everyone. They're basic morals, as I said, that people generally tend to follow. And yes, of course there are people that do those things. The population isn't perfect. But even with the ones that they don't follow, they tend to follow the rest/others. In general, even if they break one, they follow another.

In my religion God does reveal stuff through our Prophet. But of course not everyone will believe that, and not everyone will believe that our Prophet is actually a prophet of God. So it just depends on what you believe.

who is our prophet?

The Prophet of my religion (which is Mormonism) is President Monson. You can look it up at lds.org or mormon.org but I recommend not going to non-official websites. They usually tend to be prejudice.

is he alive??

Yes, Every time a Prophet dies we receive a new one through revelation. The latest prophet that died was President Gordon B. Hinckley and he died earlier last year.

what is monson president of?? and why are they both presidents?

President Hinckley is dead. So he is no longer the President or Prophet of our church today.

President Monson is the official President of the Church.

ohh got it. how are they appointed?

Through divine revelation given to the Apostles of the Church, which is the basic answer.

Sorry for taking so long to respond, by the way :)

"995786 So, you kill people? You lust after your neighbor's husband? You steal? Most of us follow God's basic rules - the 10 commandments. They're basic morals, things that are obvious. So what you said is completely false. "

Basic moral "principles" of Christianity also include stoning gays, adulterers and badly-behaved children.

That was in a day when they had no other ways to solve things. And God never (to my recollection) tells people to stone them. That was their way of punishment, whereas our way of punishment for law breakers and such is jail time. See the difference? Things change with day and age.

"995786 That was in a day when they had no other ways to solve things. And God never (to my recollection) tells people to stone them. That was their way of punishment, whereas our way of punishment for law breakers and such is jail time. See the difference? Things change with day and age."

Wouldn't discrimination against gays be dated as well?

Are you saying that some parts of the bible are to be followed and others aren't?

If God can see the future, then why condone such barbaric practices? He had the power to make the world perfect, and it got screwed up pretty badly.

http://www.jraxis.com/atheism/simulator/

Honestly, you have TO TRY to mess the world up as badly as he did. :)

And there are lots of stonings. WOuld you like a list>

The KKK did their lynchings in the name of Christ.

W, when he was in power, went to war based on passages in the Bible. ((i have proof, if you want)

Davis wrote: ""995786 That was in a day when they had no other ways to solve things. And God never (to my recollection) tells people to stone them. That was their way of punishment, whereas our way of punishment..."

There are certain acts that were commited in the Old Testament that went out of date in the New Testament because of the Atonement. For example, sacrifices.

God finds homosexuality a great sin. So no, that wouldn't be dated. Sins stay the same throughout the ages.

"If God can see the future, then why condone such barbaric practices? He had the power to make the world perfect, and it got screwed up pretty badly."

Like I said, I don't think that God condoned those barbaric practices. Humans, us, created the problems that we have, and screwed it up ourselves. He doesn't tell us what to do because of free-will and it's our life, not His, to control.

"Honestly, you have TO TRY to mess the world up as badly as he did. :)"

And apparently we did.

" And there are lots of stonings. WOuld you like a list>"

Oh, no doubt. That was one way they punished back then. I'm not saying there weren't. I'm saying that I doubt God actually said to stone people and said it was alright.

"The KKK did their lynchings in the name of Christ."

And they were extremist racists.

"And they were extremist racists."

But they had scripture to back up their positions.

What about Leviticus? Why do you follow some things form that book (homosexuality is a sin) but not others (dietary laws)?

Show me the scriptures. People can take scriptures and perceive them to be whatever they want, especially make them fit their lifestyle and beliefs.

Dietary laws aren't necessary to salvation, where as following God's laws on chastity and not performing homosexual acts is most definitely necessary to our salvation.

Says who? You? Who are you to decide what God's word means?

You can decide whether or not to believe it and how to perceive it. I keep saying this and you all are probably getting annoyed with this, but you're forcing me to be repetitive: FREE WILL. I don't personally change it to fit my lifestyle so that I don't feel guilty for wrong-doings. I follow what my religion believes God's words mean.

Oh, so your saying your particular brand of Christianity follows the Bible the best? Shouldn't there only be one way to follow it?

Obviously there isn't just one way to follow it, so it's up to us to decide which one to believe. Yes, I feel that my religion interprets the Bible the most correctly. Anyone can think that about any religion. Its up to them to decide.

"There are certain acts that were commited in the Old Testament that went out of date in the New Testament because of the Atonement. For example, sacrifices. "

So, you can cancel out bits of the Bible you don't like by using other bits of the Bible. Because absolute moral code always means it's up for interpretation.

"And apparently we did. "

From that comment, I assume you did not go to the link I provided.

"Dietary laws aren't necessary to salvation, where as following God's laws on chastity and not performing homosexual acts is most definitely necessary to our salvation."

Then why include such laws like stoning people who work on the Sabbath? If it doesn't matter, why make the law.

"So, you can cancel out bits of the Bible you don't like by using other bits of the Bible. Because absolute moral code always means it's up for interpretation."

Sacrificing was stopped after the ultimate sacrifice took place, The Atonement. So that's out of the question. And others that were cancelled out were done so by God. But I do admit that there are also religions that skip chapters or books in the Bible because they don't teach what they want taught, or they're taught in a manner that helps THEM but doesn't follow God's true word.

"From that comment, I assume you did not go to the link I provided."

I'll admit that I went but didn't look through the website because it gives me no facts or proof and gives me no reason to believe it. It's just a way to make fun of God and religion all together.

"Then why include such laws like stoning people who work on the Sabbath? If it doesn't matter, why make the law."

Where exactly as that law, Lauren dear?

Jayda wrote: "Obviously there isn't just one way to follow it, so it's up to us to decide which one to believe. Yes, I feel that my religion interprets the Bible the most correctly. Anyone can think that about a..."

Why interpret it? Why not just go for exactly what it says?