Kenyons Minions discussion

This thread will be about the one, the only, Nick's mama! But going to freeze it til I gather all what I want to discuss in this thread.

I think some cherise way you can go back , and I think because was his human side that died , is Acheron told Nick that she did not want to return but I think his Sephiroth part is still wholly not know what Cherise it really is

Did Cherise ever have feelings for Adarian?

I believe she did. But he was just so abusive that I doubt it was hard to keep many positive ones for long. Although we know how they were set up from the CON books and one would think that they might not have. But I could have sworn it said somewhere that they had lived together for a while. So I guess that says something differently.

That's the thing he screwed things up between them. He loved her BUT he just didn't know how to show it. Being 'raised' under Noir's whip and being born cursed for no fault of his own and all formed his personality the wrong way. I just wish that he would've taken the chance when he was alive to make amends with Cherise.I mean he had chances with Cherise and Nick visiting him in prison AND him living with them during his parole. But again he didn't know better to do better.
The moment he had with Nicholas in Illusion showed that ultimately deepdeepDEEP down he didn't really hate Nick. Just the fact that Nick would be the cause of his dead.
I think that a Novella is definitely needed to explain the dynamics between Cherise and Adarian's 'relationship'.

Another important topic also is that Cherise is half Sephiroth but she doesn't display any physical traits of being Sephiroth. I find it to be weird.

All very true. Although I think SK might want to leave their relationship left to the imagination without getting too in-depth and showing all that went down between them. So sort of leave it "implied".

And maybe Cherise had magic on her like Ash has on him. Meaning that the only time his REAL skin and appearance comes out is when he is hella pissed, starving, and well when he is at home and he crosses over his symbol. Maybe given the fact that Cherise could never quite accept the supernatural side of her nature they locked away her true form from her. So it doesn't trigger accidentally one day and it sends her into a massive coma or seizure fit. Also to ensure that Nick would be born too. Cause she would have been protected as a "human" long enough for him to be born in the first place.

Hmm.. from what you wrote DHfan, I got to thinking.... what if when she died, and Ash went to her, he actually talked to her. From my memory I think he said, she chose to move on..? What if he sought her out in the after-life or purgatory (not sure of Catholic religion protocol) and told her she could come back, but since her human side was killed she would return a full sephirii... thus her chosing to not return..?

Maybe she knew Adarian was something evil and beyond, and it scared her, and that's why she refuses to acknowledge the preternatural world, and was so hard on Nick, making sure he wasn't evil..? I know I have been acusatory with my angel son before..its like a reflex, making sure he don't turn out wild like his dad and I were. This is all prob left field, but it popped in my head and sort of made sense.

That could be a interesting point if he did do that BookPusher D. Although if her human side died and all that was left was the Sephirii side...and she knows the history of her kind versus the malachai....wouldn't that mean she voluntarily opted out of saving mankind to let her Malachai son take over and eventually rule it?....(gathering majority of this from some CON stuff)

Could be a 6th sense perhaps. But I know in CON it was specifically said she can't handle being told about the 'other' side of life AT ALL. It totally screws up her brain. Cause Ambrose tried many times over and once she or even Nick was put in the mental ward cause Ambrose tried to be up front about everything. I do see your point too about being hard on Nick cause of that. But I think also it was mostly being a single mom in uber protective and defense mode too. I mean as far as her human side saw things, her parents kicked her out once they found out she was preggars. And single TEEN moms get plenty of flack as is. So likely as Nick was growing up, she was going to kick his butt out of those stereotypes/statistics of being a no good punk kid coming from a no good punk teen that got herself pregnant so early on and didn't do anything with her life. In short bringing out the Mama Lo to see his butt through to adulthood. And I can't be mad at ANY kind of parent like that at all!

Yes, she can't handle being told about the supernat world. I always wondered if Aunt Minnie did some kind of mind warp on Cherise, so she wouldn't be compelled to distroy her baby malachi... even more now since she is his nat enemy? So when she is told of the world that surrounds her she goes crazy...??

And the teen mom bit, I completely understand, I wasn't a teen mom but really young, that's why I have much love for single momma characters raising a boy into a man :) The struggle is real! Cherise is my favorite. But I have a hard time with her irrational rejection of him, when she gave Adarian some slack by visiting him and letting him stay with her (that is a big IF, she allowed it and was not forced into letting him stay out of fear)...after how we know (or suppose at this time) how Nick came about. He is her baby boy, her everything, her reason for doing the worst possible job in order to put food on the table. Before his conception, she was a perfect goodie good girl right? That's why I am leaning towards somethimg in her might know Adarian is somethig more and why she pushes Nick hard to keep a good path, and fears he could be doing wrong.

Could be. I mean there was the whole plot how she was conceived as well too. Who knows what ELSE they tossed in that fun little goody bag.

Possibly. But could always be the ying yang affect. Opposites attracting, light and dark. And in her own light way she was keeping things balanced and in order by keeping Nick good ALL the time. Even by doing the rejection thing maybe. Kind of making him fight against the negative and choose and learn what was the RIGHT and WRONG way for himself. So he wasn't just always being so coddled to do the right thing as opposed to the wrong thing ya know? Cause really how does one learn how to do what is best for themselves until they have either experienced their own mistakes or are thrust so far into a situation that challenges them daily to decide what is best and what is not.

Side note to all of this I just picked up Son of No One and Illusion today at the Half Price Bookstore! I think I'm all caught up on the series now save for one book for the main series/the CON series.

Here's something I recently started wondering about, since there is a similar discussion going on in the Malachai thread, about Cherise and her Sephiroth heritage ...

What if Cherise's refusal to accept the supernatural is, on some very deep subconscious level, a survival instinct of sorts? That by denying the supernatural, she also denies her Sephiroth heritage, thus maintaining the balance of one Sephiroth, one Malachai?

I can't help but wonder if being a Sephiroth is like being an Oneroi ... either you are, or you aren't. And there are several Oneroi (Madoc, Xypher, Delphine, to name a few) who are of mixed blood, yet they are considered simply Oneroi.

If that's the case, then it seems to me that if Cherise were to accept her Sephiroth nature, making her a Sephiroth, then either she or Jared must die to maintain the original agreement. Which would open up a whoooooole other can of worms in regards to Nick and his Malachai nature.

it would make her death much more sense . There can only be one sephiroth .

Charlotte wrote: "Here's something I recently started wondering about, since there is a similar discussion going on in the Malachai thread, about Cherise and her Sephiroth heritage ...

What if Cherise's refusal to ..."

Ooooh well theorized Charlotte. That does sound like a very likely possibility. I mean everything was so thoroughly plotted out for even her to exist so she could have Nick in the first place...then there can be even more things tucked away into her back story we don't know about.

But refresh my memory real quick somebody. Has it been proven that a child of a Sepheroith like the Malachai? Or would they be like a demi serphroith? Especially given that the mother's genetic make up could maybe offset things a bit, like how having a mother with a "human" side sort of offset some of his evil ways for a time there too and gave him the ability to be compassionate and such and thus different from OTHER Malachai before him.

What if the reason that Jared and Cherise are because of Nick? Nick being half sephiroth and half Malachai maintains the balance with just his existence

Ray (warrior of randomness) XP wrote: "What if the reason that Jared and Cherise are because of Nick? Nick being half sephiroth and half Malachai maintains the balance with just his existence"

I'm confused on your wording with that Ray. Are you saying that the reason both Jared and Cherise exist is do to creating a well balanced Malachai and Sephiroth?

yes and the reason they are dead is because of Nick's existence? one sephiroth and one malachai. those are the rules to maintain balance. With Nick being half sephiroth and half Malachai . his existence alone maintained the balance

But Jared isn't dead last I knew. Or wait are you talking in the CON world?

In the future. Jared dies . cherise is dead . both sephiroth . adarian is dead

Ooooh, yea I still dub that CON world. Cause til the present day folks in the main series kick off, you still living at the moment to me lol. Too much info over load to see it as all one time line for me.

what do you think of that theory?

I think it does make sense. And yet at the same time if Nick goes Ambrose, wouldn't that mean he wasn't Sephiroth enough to keep the balance he was born to achieve in the first place? I mean it would kind of defeat the whole purpose of everything really.

I think its more yin and yang think. if things go good then he will be embracing Sephorith side. malachai would be the other result. I find odd that he has three light and three dark generals

Hmm, that is what I was thinking in regards to Cherise initially being attracted to Adarian. But I don't think I've ever read or heard of one being having both the yin and yang aspects. As one is light anad female and one is dark and male...So I would think too that is why some have said that Kody is most likely his new anchor as she would be the newest being of light to his Ambrose existence perhaps. But you do have a point about his generals.

Dhfan4life wrote: "But refresh my memory real quick somebody. Has it been proven that a child of a Sepheroith like the Malachai? Or would they be like a demi serphroith? Especially given that the mother's genetic mak..."

I don't think we've heard yet of a demi Sephiroth. Which is why I'm thinking that if one has Sephiroth blood, either they're a Sephiroth or they're not. Which to me would explain why Cherise completely and totally refuses to accept the supernatural, because that makes her human and NOT a Sephiroth.

Rachel made a very good point in the Malachai thread, that Cherise learning of the supernatural world is what leads to her death (or at least has a lot to do with it). Again, tying into the possibility that her refusal to accept the supernatural is a sort of survival instinct on her part.

So if Jared is still alive, does that mean Nick is 50/50 with his heritage, or is he 60/40 in favor of the malachai being dominant according to your theory?

Myst wrote: "So if Jared is still alive, does that mean Nick is 50/50 with his heritage, or is he 60/40 in favor of the malachai being dominant according to your theory?"

My thinking is 60/40 with Malachai being dominant. After all in the CON books we don't quite so the benevolent and well balanced Ambrose. We see the future Malachai on the edge and then even HE goes over it trying to save himself. Killing everyone he knows, taking out Artie. Clearly the good "force" ain't so strong in that one!

Heck come to think of it, he was so bad they had to bust out the Arel squad and such on his keester. And bring certain individuals back from the beyond to try and make a difference in his life. So yea, I think one fully acknowledged Sepherii is not good enough to make the 50/50 balance work so well.

Charlotte wrote: "Here's something I recently started wondering about, since there is a similar discussion going on in the Malachai thread, about Cherise and her Sephiroth heritage ...

What if Cherise's refusal to ..."

I feel that Cherise should stop being on the defensive and switch to the offensive! I know all of you have pretty good theories to the reason that she doesn't display any sephiroth abilities but personally I am tired with seeing her be the victim that needs protecting. I want to see her surprise every body and kick some ass!

Kimberly wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Here's something I recently started wondering about, since there is a similar discussion going on in the Malachai thread, about Cherise and her Sephiroth heritage ...

What if Che..."

I think the best way she kicks ass is through making sure Nick in ANY world grows up to be a quality "human" being/man in the world. So may not be the typical good fight we would like to see. But I think most any mom would tell ya, they want to see their kids doing bigger and better things and not end up in the jail house somewhere.

Dhfan4life wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Here's something I recently started wondering about, since there is a similar discussion going on in the Malachai thread, about Cherise and her Sephiroth heritage..."

Yes Ofcourse:) I think I just have other expectations because she is part of the supernatural world:p.

Spoilers about ILLUSION and other CON books up to INVISION may follow: (view spoiler)[Do any of you ever wonder why the Cherise in the alternate universe was so blasé about all the supernatural stuff while the Cherise in OUR world couldn't handle it at all?

Mennie said she tried to tell Cherise about all of it when she was younger but her reaction was so extreme, Mennie made her forget everything. At first I thought it might have to do with how she was conceived. Mennie thought that she brought Nick to visit Adarian in prison because she knew, on some level, that her own father was kept from her and didn't want to do the same to Nick. So I thought she reacted badly to supernatural stuff because, on some level, she knew of her heritage and how it came to be. But alter-Cherise looks exactly the same so Jared is still her father. And SHE doesn't have any problems beating demons off her son with a baseball bat.

I'm working under the assumption that Mennie tried to tell her about all of it BEFORE Cherise was attacked by an evil demon overlord. Because otherwise, being raped by a demon is a good reason to freak at the thought of supernatural stuff. It would also explain why she locked up one of Ambrose's earlier Nicks when he tried to tell her about demons and Dark Hunters. Plus, Adarian is the only difference in Cherise's life between this world and the parallel one of ILLUSION, so it makes sense.

Maybe it's that simple. But that would mean Mennie tried to tell Cherise the truth only AFTER she'd been attacked. That wasn't specified, so I still wonder.

(hide spoiler)]

Marie wrote: "Spoilers about ILLUSION and other CON books up to INVISION may follow: Do any of you ever wonder why the Cherise in the alternate universe was so blasé about all the supernatural stuff while the Ch..."

That is something that has crossed y and maybe others' mind.
But what I would like to know is when exactly did Mennie meet Cherise. Because if Cherise was rich then how would she have come in contact with her.........
That is why I keep saying that SK should release a Novella sooner or later because their are any things left unsaid so to speak.

Hmmm .... Marie, you might be onto something there. =)

(view spoiler)[Like Kimmy said, we don't know exactly when Mennie met Cherise, nor do we know exactly when Mennie tried to tell her the truth about her parentage.

So being raped by Adarian could have led to her refusal to accept the supernatural. It's definitely a possibility. =) (hide spoiler)]

KimmyGorgeousBliss wrote: "Marie wrote: "Spoilers about ILLUSION and other CON books up to INVISION may follow: Do any of you ever wonder why the Cherise in the alternate universe was so blasé about all the supernatural stuf..."

I thought, given Mennie's role in Cherise's birth, that she would have kept watch over her from the time she was born. But Adarian showed up and hung around her for a while and Mennie didn't notice, so she couldn't have been a constance presence in her life. I agree that a novella or just a more detailed explaination from Mennie might help clear up a lot of things

Charlotte wrote: "Hmmm .... Marie, you might be onto something there. =)

Like Kimmy said, we don't know exactly when Mennie met Cherise, nor do we know exactly when Mennie tried to tell her the truth about her pare..."

(view spoiler)[ Do you think maybe the reason Adarian isn't there in the alternate universe and the reason Cherise was never attacked by him might be that Mennie's trap actually worked this time around? In OUR world, he showed up unexpectadly early and got to Cherise before Mennie knew about it. (hide spoiler)]

Marie wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Hmmm .... Marie, you might be onto something there. =)

Like Kimmy said, we don't know exactly when Mennie met Cherise, nor do we know exactly when Mennie tried to tell her the tr..."

From what I understood the Malachai can exist in only one universe at a time....

KimmyGorgeousBliss wrote: "Marie wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Hmmm .... Marie, you might be onto something there. =)

Like Kimmy said, we don't know exactly when Mennie met Cherise, nor do we know exactly when Mennie tried to t..."

I think the rule is that there can only be one at a time, but I took that to mean one per universe, not one in all universes at all times. If it was one universe at a time, how would the characters of Illusion even know what a Malachai is? There's always been one in OUR world, from Monakribos to Nick's father. and since there's always been Jared too, they couldn't have left without starting the apocalypse. Right? Am I getting the rules wrong? I'm so confused.

You raise some very, VERY good questions there, Marie.

Myself, I was under the impression that only one Malachai can exist in all the universes, from the way Kody was thinking. I really don't know if that applies to the Sephiroth as well.

How the characters in the Illusion universe knew what a Malachai was ... yeah, that's a good question. Not a clue, there.

Is there an alternate Jared in the Illusion universe? It's a possibility, and he could be a different creature altogether in that universe. But that's just wild speculation on my part.

We'll probably never know. :S

Charlotte wrote: "You raise some very, VERY good questions there, Marie.

Myself, I was under the impression that only one Malachai can exist in all the universes, from the way Kody was thinking. I really don't know..."

(view spoiler)[I don't remember where, but I remember reading that Ambrose had looked through a bunch of parallel universes to try to find a version of his life where Cherise hadn't died. And that's what he's been trying to recreate in his world. So we know there are multiple Nicks. I just thought that meant at least a bunch of them were also the Malachai of their world.

I think there are only one of every Arel though. That would explain why the ones Kody talked to in Illusion are the same that she knew in OUR world. Plus, something about their job description in Invision made me think that too. something about making sure all the worlds or timelines went on the way they should? (hide spoiler)]

Question: Why is Cherise's soul at peace? A Daimon killed her and Daimons feed on souls. Since Ash didn't bring Cherise back to life because she was already at peace when he learned of her death, I'm wondering why the Daimon that killed her didn't eat her soul.

It wasn't just any Daimon who killed Cherise, but rather Desiderius in the body of the Dark-Hunter Ulric.

Found this small explanation in Seize the Night:
"As a Daimon, he'd need her soul to live, but since he was in the body of a Dark-Hunter ....
Killing humans was done for simple pleasure now, not for sustenance." (Kindle, US edition, 80%)

Desiderius also killed Tia, Amanda, Kyrian, and Kassim; he also had plans to kill Tabitha. He killed Cherise specifically to agitate Nick, thinking that in turn it would agitate Ash.

Hope that helps! =)

It does, thanks

Since finishing Deadmen Walking, I've been curious about something. (view spoiler)[ Cherise for whatever reason cant handle anything supernatural even though she herself is part Sephiroth. Menyara didnt understand herself why Cherise reacts so negatively to it. After reading about Father Jeffrey in DW. Idk if anyone else feels this is the same Father Jeffrey that Nick goes to confession to. I'm convinced this priest has to have some supernatural background. And maybe he has meddle with Cherise in some ways...I could be reaching and could very well be wrong. (hide spoiler)]

I think it's the same priest, but I personnally believe Cherise can't stand the supernatural because of what Adarian did to her. The only difference between the alternate Cherise in Illusion (which had no issue with the supernatural) and the Cherise in OUR DH Universe is that Illusion-Cherise was never attacked by Adarian.

I think she saw his true form or something during the attack and it scarred her. I remember a scene in CON in which Cherise is walking towards Nick and Kody. She stops in her tracks because, as she explained to Kody, "For a second it was like you were you, but not you". I think she saw Kody's true Arel form in that moment. And I think something similar happened while Adarian raped her.

Perspacity (spelling) maybe?

Thats what i always thought, she's tied the two together the supernatural world and Adarian's assault, understandable really.

I feel like Cherise's big reveal then Bubba's lineage i feel like we're being set up for another surprise super baby, i've never really cared much about the Bubba/Cherise relationship, thats the only reason i can see for it.

BTW what would happen if Cherise powers do awaken? Would Jared die?

That also makes perfect sense to me. Seeing Adarian's true self when he attacks her, now she cant ever separate that fear.

I'm actually expecting Bubba to die any moment, given that he's such a big part of CON and yet has never even been mentioned in DH.

I'm not sure what would happen to Jared if Cherise got her powers. I guess that depends on wether or not the Sephiroth operates by the same curse as the Malachai. Even then, maybe Cherise, as a woman, can't be his heir.

Same here! Theres not even a whisper of him or Mark, i keep expecting baby news from Cherise LOL

Ahhh i hadn't thought of that! Yeah i'd guess Sephiroth would have the same rules as the Malachai..