Historical Fictionistas discussion

Here's a fun list of extinct words. I loved playing with outdated language in my novel. On this list, I think #8, snudge is delightful. What are some of your favorite extinct words?

http://www.theguardian.com/books/book...

I want this book!

Helen wrote: "I want this book!"

Here's the goodreads link to it. Looks really fascinating.

The Horologicon: A Day's Jaunt Through the Lost Words of the English Language

I think minify is a nifty word no longer used.

Thank you! Just added it to my TBR list.

Sgriob - a Gaelic word so I don't suppose it's much in use these days, if at all. Anyway, it refers to a very specific feeling - the itch that you feel on the upper lip as you're just about to take a sip of whisky.

Venenose- means noxious or poisonous. Should still be around!

E.M. wrote: "Venenose- means noxious or poisonous. Should still be around!"

Is this Latin or English? I ask because in Spanish 'venenoso' means poisonous.

Expressions from the Civil War era include:

Absquatulate (take your leave)
Chirk (cheerful)
Hornswoggle (cheat)

One of my favorite expressions from those days is 'I swan' which is used instead of 'I swear', such as: I swan, I never heard such a thing in all my born days. :)

I grew up hearing "I swanny". Does it have tenses like - swan, swanny, swanniest? ;)

Jackie wrote: "E.M. wrote: "Venenose- means noxious or poisonous. Should still be around!"

Is this Latin or English? I ask because in Spanish 'venenoso' means poisonous."

That would make sense, Jackie- it's an English word but it is listed in my synonym finder as 'Archaic', which usually means it's dropped out of usage.

I've written medieval romance for so long that I find, when I'm writing my modern stories, that I long for the characters to swear with "God's Teeth!" and so on :). I like the more expressive versions of fury, vs just falling back on four letter words.

Lisa

Lisa wrote: "I've written medieval romance for so long that I find, when I'm writing my modern stories, that I long for the characters to swear with "God's Teeth!" and so on :). I like the more expressive versi..."

I love when HF characters say God's teeth! I end up cracking up every time.

I use old words in Italian but not English. For example, when I say 'help', I say 'soccorso!' Instead of 'aiuto'. Then my italian teacher yells at me.

Joanne -

Ah, but that would mean the phrase is having an "incorrect" effect on you. The aim is to have you feel the strength of the statement, not that you're taken out of the scene by amusement. Maybe the authors should use another phrase that allows you to maintain your immersion.

Lisa

I love Mark Forsyth's books - jam packed with wonderful words. And what about No 9. Feague - can't imagine there'd be much use for that these days.

Oh those are funny. We have plenty of smollygosters(dishonest politicians). I also like Sprunt-to chase girls around the haystack and wamblecropt- to be overcome with indigestion. :)

Oh, old and regional words are the greatest fun of writing HF! (Love your collection, Jayme.) I'm writing a series set in Surrey in the year 1800, and found some good sources--a character, in an excess of animal spirits, can bannick (thrash) a malefactor till he's fair beazled (tired out), and in all the boffle (confusion), fail to hear the Petergrievous (you can probably guess that one) puling of his victim.

And don't get me started on polysyllabic treasures, which got me hooked on the era in the first place: obsequiousness, importunity, panegyric, sagacity, remonstrance, assiduities.

My favorite books are always those that send me scurrying to the OED!

smollygosters needs to return in our vocabulary. This folder always brings a smile, thank you

While obscure rather than obsolete, I was reminded recently of how much I enjoy words that define themselves. the example my friend and I were discussing is recondite, which means obscure, rarefied orscholarly, and it itself is all of those things, as it's not commonly used. I don`t know if there`s a term for words like this, it`s a variation of automatopia I suppose

I thought it might be metonymy (like saying "the White House" when you are referring to the President), but not quite! Speaking of obsolete or near-obsolete words, all those old rhetorical terms are themselves delightful--chiasmus, dysphemism, litotes, onomatopoeia, syllepsis, zeugma. (Partial list courtesy of Theodore M. Bernstein's book The Careful Writer)

I just discovered quim [old English slang for female genitalia] in Gilbert's The Signature of All Things. I think it deserves a return, as it sounds neither clinical nor obscene.

This is actually still used here, (UK), not as much as some others, but I think most people would have heard it and know what it meant.

My favorite is "snoodle," It means to amble or walk slowly.

I snoodle every day :)

Snoodle is my high speed.

Cockalorum - a self-important little man. (he-he)

I love cockalorum!

I saw a bumper sticker that read "eschew obfuscation" yesterday. Awesome!

I'm always having to check words for historical accuracy. Anyway, I found predawn was not used until later than I needed it, but "antelucan" was, and it's a much prettier word.

It is indeed.

Elly wrote: "Lave... lave has always been a favorite. Too bad it isn't in common use anymore.

Lave - to wash

Sounds so much prettier than just plain wash."

Because it's French, Elly.

Does anyone use "pshaw" anymore? I used to have a boss that used it, and it would give me a chuckle every time I heard her say it.

Now I'm going to snoodle down the hall and snuggle up with a book.

Suzanne wrote: "Does anyone use "pshaw" anymore? I used to have a boss that used it, and it would give me a chuckle every time I heard her say it.

Now I'm going to snoodle down the hall and snuggle up with a book."

My husband uses it, in sort of a snort form.

Suzanne wrote: "Does anyone use "pshaw" anymore? I used to have a boss that used it, and it would give me a chuckle every time I heard her say it.

Now I'm going to snoodle down the hall and snuggle up with a book."

"Pshaw" as in the exclamation of dismissive scorn? Yes, a few friends I know use it at such lovely times as when I say something like, "Thanks for your compliments on my eggplant parmazan, but yours is much better." "Pshaw," my friend will reply heartily, from which I understand that she meant every word of her praise.

My grandmother said "pshaw."

I think this is a very interesting post and it goes to show you that language is a living thing. It is constantly moving and developing. In with the new and out with the old. Readers of the classics must notice that the basic vocabulary used in the nineteenth century is much broader and more colorful than that generally used today.

Thom wrote: "I think this is a very interesting post and it goes to show you that language is a living thing. It is constantly moving and developing. In with the new and out with the old. Readers of the classic..."

I agree. As a writer is it sometimes frustrating, but the words one ends up using are so much more interesting.

Belle wrote: "Expressions from the Civil War era include:

Absquatulate (take your leave)
Chirk (cheerful)
Hornswoggle (cheat)"

Aloha Belle:
Hornswaggle is a wonderfully descriptive word. I believe it was used in several of Mark Twain's writings, IIRC.
Cheers,
Mike

Oh yes, Mark Twain certainly used hornswaggle on occasion.

Aloha Susanna:
Intrigued by your subtitle, "censored by Goodreads." I understand Twain's Huckleberry Finn is one of the most censored/banned books in American literature.
Cheers,
Mike

Suzanne wrote: "Does anyone use "pshaw" anymore? I used to have a boss that used it, and it would give me a chuckle every time I heard her say it.

Now I'm going to snoodle down the hall and snuggle up with a book."

I say pshaw all the time!

There is a phrase I often use that my husband says is outdated, "ought not to..." instead of shouldn't.

Christine wrote: "While obscure rather than obsolete, I was reminded recently of how much I enjoy words that define themselves. the example my friend and I were discussing is recondite, which means obscure, rarefied..."

I found it! A word that describes itself like recondite or short is called an autological word. Here's a brilliant list of 24 other words that describe words; I had no idea these concepts had words to describe them! http://mentalfloss.com/article/58561/...

Aloha Christine:
Fascinating article. Thanks!
Not sure if anyone here has read much of H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) but his book "A Mencken Chrestomathy" -- a collection of his writings from the early 20th century -- is loaded with now obsolete but delightfully recondite words. He was a chauvinist,curmudgeon and terrible misanthrope, but a master wordsmith.
Cheers,
Mike
Christine wrote: "Christine wrote: "While obscure rather than obsolete, I was reminded recently of how much I enjoy words that define themselves. the example my friend and I were discussing is recondite, which means..."

I came across this delightful piece describing some obsolete oaths. http://mentalfloss.com/article/58571/...

Ella wrote: "My favorite is "snoodle," It means to amble or walk slowly."

Sounds like when my husband when he walks the dogs. hmm Take the dogs for snoodle.

Another gem, the history of some English last names. http://mentalfloss.com/article/58605/...

Fop. I guess it's been replaced now by metrosexual.
Also goldingit for goddammit
And tut-tut. I used to LONG to find a reason to say tut-tut, and then I started finding all kinds of reasons Like when my son's girlfriend claimed not to like chocolate cake, and I said "Tut-tut, you've never tried mine." (and now she is a chocolate cake convert, btw)

Kathryn wrote: "Fop. I guess it's been replaced now by metrosexual.
Also goldingit for goddammit
And tut-tut. I used to LONG to find a reason to say tut-tut, and then I started finding all kinds of reasons Like..."

Hm, fot definitely doesn't get used anymore, but I'm not sure if metrosexual has universally replaced it. I think fot was used in a derogatory way, though maybe metrosexual is too. Now that I think about it, would any man ever define himself as either a fop or a metrosexual? I guess they're both words people would use to describe someone else.