Victorians! discussion

Please discuss chapters VIII-XV.

Something that I struggled with when I read Villette, was the French. I have no idea what any of it means. Anyone fluent or able to offer suggestions?

I speak French, would love to help :)

That's awesome, how could we do it?

however it suits you. you could send me the passages in a message or via mail :)

Could we do it as posts, for those like me,you might wind up translating the book.
Jane made a thread- language issues.
Thanks so much, it's really cool

I just commented on the thread Jane created and suggested the same thing since apparently mant people are struggling with the language. we could use that thread for translation.

Awesome thanks

you're most welcome :)

I find myself ill equipped to come to terms with the manner in which William holds his students. I have to wonder why he seems to feel such contempt for the girls under his tuteledge? I wonder if he hates them because of what religion they were born under or is it because he just hates women who hold a higher station than he? I must say at this point, I do not like his character much at all! I found that by the end of Chapter 12, I was a bit glad that Zoraide was promised to M Pelet. William is to haughty and full of himself right now. Perhaps he will come down a peg or two in the following chapters. At this point there would be few women who could live up to his standards.

Yes Marialyce I do agre, up to now I can't say that William is an agreeabe character! He never spoke in this term of his male students.

I felt similar. He seems to have this idea, before teaching them, that the female students are idyllic little angels. After meeting them, this illusion is shattered. I'm wondering if Bronte is commenting on the fact that people believed that educating women extensively in that era, was perhaps a futile exercise as they would marry and put education to little use.
There is also extensively detail given to every single women's appearance. I'm not convinced that men take in that much detail (I'm basing this on conversations with my husband, brothers and friends). Charazad mentioned before that she's never been sure if the voice is credibly male. To me William sounds like a woman, one who is trying to be one of the guys but failing miserably. It's as if Bronte is trying to hard to be credible as a male voice.
I've seen the similarities to Vilette, which is far superior, yet I am glad I am reading this book.

Lisa wrote: "I felt similar. He seems to have this idea, before teaching them, that the female students are idyllic little angels. After meeting them, this illusion is shattered. I'm wondering if Bronte is comm..."

I feel the very same way, Lisa. I do think Bronte is not pulling the male voice of William off very well. The extensive physical descriptions of the girls was a indicator. He found not a smidgen of something admirable in them. I agree Vilete was far superior. William comes off as worse than any of the girls he has so disparaged.

I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one who has come to really dislike William! His condescension and contempt for his pupils is really obnoxious. LauraT, he did make similar comments about the boys, and that they were stupid and their faces showed their stupidity, but he didn't go on and on about it like he does about the girls. But the focus of the story is apparently in the girls' school, so I suppose that is why he has so much more to say about the girls. He's teaching in both schools, but since he started at Mlle. Reuter's, there has been virtually no mention of the boys' school. He's very bigoted against the Belgians, and even more so about Catholics. I know that Bronte also expressed some degree of anti-Catholicism later in Villette, but she really lets it out here. I feel that this seems to be reflecting her own prejudice.

I also agree that William is very conceited. I think I mentioned in the previous thread that I had this impression from his attitude while he was working for his brother, but I think it has become much more evident now. It's almost funny how he feels he is playing a kind of game of one-upmanship with Mlle. Reuter, which, of course, he feels he is winning, while at the same time deigning to honor her by falling in love with her. Once he has decided to bestow this great favor on her (of course, not really revealing it to her), he is brought back to earth by overhearing the conversation between her and M. Pelet. I can only imagine how he will react by feeling that they have betrayed him, although neither one of them has really done anything of the sort. Yes, she did flirt with him a bit, but I don't think to the point of leading him on. For her, I think it was more of an attempt to gain some influence over him; control within her own establishment seems to be very important to her. As M. Pelet warned William, and as William himself noted, she manages to discover the weak spot in everyone around her.

I'm sincerely hoping that the prejudices shown and Williams immaturity are going to be influenced at some point. And that he will grow and change! I'd hate to dislike a book by Bronte!

I don't dislike the book, only the mail character!

Good point Laura, it is the character, not the book.

I feel the same. A good book can still have an unlikeable character. If it provokes a response, it's accomplished something.

Now come, come, fellow Bronte lovers, Charlotte won't let us down!:-D She never does! All of her characters eventually take a turn towards goodness! My prediction is that our ideologue professor will be learning some lessons of his own in the future chapters, perhaps from our humble new female character.

Denise wrote: "Now come, come, fellow Bronte lovers, Charlotte won't let us down!:-D She never does! All of her characters eventually take a turn towards goodness! My prediction is that our ideologue professor wi..."

You're right!

I agree with the above comments. I finished this section yesterday, and I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as the first section, due to my frustration with the French/translating and the viciousness of the narrative and descriptions. My husband read a couple of chapters to me, translating the French, and he complained about the wordy descriptions. The wordiness doesn't bother me, but the meanness and prejudices do get to be a bit much. I wonder how readers of the Victorian era felt about the descriptions and about the character of William Crimsworth -- if they felt him as cringe-worthy as we do. I should look up some contemporary reviews. The last chapter or two seemed to be moving away from the French and the bad attitude a bit, so I'm holding out hope that I'll enjoy the next section more. This is not good bedtime reading, though! I had to give up on that and start a YA book instead.